Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by cmgoods, Nov 26, 2013.
Heard Mac say that. Should even the field and gonna screw KSU and some others.
That's good to hear. Good academic schools like CU shouldn't suffer because teams sign a guy who can't read and took basketweaving at JUCO so they could be eligible.
How long have people known about these rules changes? I.e. were they announced years ago, and only came into effect this year; or were they only announced very recently?
Either way, it does hurt KSU, but if it's the latter, they're really screwed because their whole pipeline just got shot.
I would imagine that they announced the change a couple years ago though, so the JC's have been preparing for this, and [strike]all[/strike] most of them are meeting the new minimums. Which ultimately means that not much has changed for KSU or other schools that regularly rely on JC recruits; there are just a few more people recruiting that pool now (us, and any other FBS schools that had similar restrictions on transfer students (are there any others?)). The only point where it does hurt them is in recruiting the neanderthals that can't even get eligible under the new rules; now not even ASU can take them.
I remembered it being a couple years ago they made the announcement, and finally found this article from the NCAA. They announced it in 2011, and it took affect for students starting Juco in August 2012, which should be most of the kids that are coming out this cycle.
And here's a simple breakdown of the new requirements:
The last time we were relevant we had at least a few jucos and transfers, right?
Frankly it's been so long I can't remember. I do remember Pesavento and Moschetti being jucos and Chris Brown being a transfer.
Brown was a transfer and a JUCO. He went to Northwestern when Barney was there, Barney left and the coaches tried to convert Brown to a WR. Brown said no thanks, went JUCO for a year (or a semester) and came to CU. Brown was a hell of a player. He was on Heisman watch lists until a few games into the 2002 season.
I understand that limiting the number of transferrable credits for courses like PE definitely plays in CU's favor. However, I think this is going to diminish the pool of available juco's since fewer will qualify to transfer anywhere. For instance, let's say that last year there were 100 juco student athletes eligible to transfer to a four-year school. If we looked at the same 100 student athletes under the new rules (this coming year), there might only be 90 eligible to transfer. There will be fewer players for all the universities to choose from, hence I think there will be greater competition for their services.
Just increases the already rampant academic fraud. All good
There are plenty of piss easy classes that will transfer, it's not like the psychology/sociology or communications or ethnic studies courses are hard by any stretch of the imagination, especially the ones that freshman and sophomores are going to be taking. Sure there will be a decrease, but I don't think it'll be a big one.
Or what SD described will happen...either way it helps CU out.
Theoretically, this is why the NCAA had a lag between announcing the changes and implementing them - to give JUCO institutions an opportunity to adjust the course expectations for their athletes.
It's still a bit of a challenge; CU only gives partial credit instead of full credit on JC credits transferred in. Unless its an in state JC program. And I don't think any of our in state JCs have a football program.
FIFY, needed a broader perspective!
Not sure that it matters but from first hand experience I don't believe that to be the case. I was a freshman coming in out of high school and not a transfer. I received full credit for all classes completed at a JC.
I transferred to CU from a JC and I received full credit for all of my classes. This was only because I took all "guaranteed transferable" classes which were only guaranteed to in-state public universities.
This is a huge point of difference. Community colleges in the Colorado Community College System http://www.cccs.edu/AboutCCCS/ourcc.html have a list of core classes that as long as completed with a grade of B or higher are guaranteed to transfer to any four year state college or university. Grades of C or D are at the discresion of the recieving university. This is a state law so the schools can't argue with it.
As mentioned elsewhere the problem is that the Colorado JCs don't have football anymore. Most of the JCs that play football are located in California, Kansas and surrounding states with some in Texas and the deep south. These schools are not covered by this law meaning that a lot of their classes, even if the correspond to one of the classes that would be taken at the Colorado JC don't transfer.
For football fans that's a problem becasue we would love to make it easier to get some of these guys in but I can understand the universities view as well. Some of the JCs academically are glorified high schools or worse and even though the course title and subject may be the same the level of rigor is very different.
On the other side they also can sometimes get ridiculous. I can understand questioning the validity of classes from some JC in Iowa but years back my brother wanted to transfer into the University of Colorado in Denver. He had over 120 credits on his transcript and had been on the equivelent of the deans list. UCD initially said they would less than 60 of the credits. He contested and got it close to 100 but even that was ridiculous considering that the credits not taken were all classes he had A's and B's in and came from that highly questionable academic school, the US Air Force Academy.
If you have to fight them to get credits transfered from the AFA then I don't know what would convince them to take out of state JC credits.
Some good info and points in this thread. I was thinking the other day about the change in course requirements, and tini touched on it earlier -- these student athletes who can't transfer more than 2 PE credit courses aren't gonna run out and enroll in quantum physics or aerospace engineering. They'll most likely substitute with classes such as Intro to Traffic Cone Placement and Whack-a-Mole Theory; in other words, classes that won't transfer to CU. I'm definitely interested in seeing how this all plays out, but don't count me as optimistic that this will have a tremendous impact on Buff recruiting.
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