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Lower the rim in women's hoops?

Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
We've had this discussion before, but I think it bears repeating. Especially since ESPNW came out strongly against it today.



Here's where I'm at:

- WBB already plays with a smaller ball, acknowledging that women are generally not as big as men.
- We can also agree that women aren't generally as tall, don't jump as high, and don't have as much quick twitch explosiveness as men. This is why the women's volleyball net is 8 inches lower, why pro women golfers hit from a closer tee, etc.
- My big thing is on the expense and logistics with basketball courts on playgrounds and in gyms all over this country. Is it feasible for them all to be able to have rims that can re-set at 9'4" or thereabouts for women's games? If so, I think the change should be made. If not, then I think it needs to stay as it is.
 
Buffnik said:
We've had this discussion before, but I think it bears repeating. Especially since ESPNW came out strongly against it today.



Here's where I'm at:

- WBB already plays with a smaller ball, acknowledging that women are generally not as big as men.
- We can also agree that women aren't generally as tall, don't jump as high, and don't have as much quick twitch explosiveness as men. This is why the women's volleyball net is 8 inches lower, why pro women golfers hit from a closer tee, etc.
- My big thing is on the expense and logistics with basketball courts on playgrounds and in gyms all over this country. Is it feasible for them all to be able to have rims that can re-set at 9'4" or thereabouts for women's games? If so, I think the change should be made. If not, then I think it needs to stay as it is.
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If it we're determined it was appropriate (I would say yes), give it a super long phase in horizon. Something like 5 years to give infrastructure providers a chance to create adjustable height rims at minimal expense that can replace existing rims in the future.

It would totally screw with every level of bball, both men's and women's, to try to do it on a year or 2 notice.
 
Do NOT lower the rim. The gameplay is completely different between the women and the men.

I don't discount the women's game because they rarely dunk, just like I don't discount the men's game because the fundamentals are lower than the women's game.
 
The feasibility to make that change would be difficult. I know nothing of the mechanics, but I would guess it would be difficult for your average high school gym to change the height of their rims. And if so, the cost and hassle it would cause nation wide would be a deterrent.

Gameplay wise I think it’d be cool.
 
WarBuff said:
Do NOT lower the rim. The gameplay is completely different between the women and the men.

I don't discount the women's game because they rarely dunk, just like I don't discount the men's game because the fundamentals are lower than the women's game.
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Would a lower rim lose you as a fan? That’s really the question that matters. Because as the game is now most people who like basketball do not enjoy watching women’s basketball. Playing above the rim might gain fans.

P.S. There is absolutely nothing lacking with fundamentals in men’s basketball unless we’re talking defense & post offense due to AAU influence.
 
Stop trying to make the women's game like the men's game. Even if the rim is lowered so more women can dunk they are not going to be dunking like the men.

Instead of trying to force the women's game to look like the men's game do more to emphasize the strengths of the women's game. The spacing, the passing, shooting from a variety of ranges.

Instead of comparing just appreciate the talents of the women playing and the skills they have developed.

The women's game has come a long way in the past couple decades, it is much faster, the skill level is higher, the best teams work the ball around with a speed and precision that wouldn't have been imagined when their mothers or grandmothers were playing.
 
Not Sure said:
Why would we want to make the women’s game more like the men’s game?
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Not for the sake of making it like the men’s game, but changing a rule to make it more exciting. Should WBB have not added a 3pt line because the men do it that way?
 
MtnBuff said:
Stop trying to make the women's game like the men's game. Even if the rim is lowered so more women can dunk they are not going to be dunking like the men.

Instead of trying to force the women's game to look like the men's game do more to emphasize the strengths of the women's game. The spacing, the passing, shooting from a variety of ranges.

Instead of comparing just appreciate the talents of the women playing and the skills they have developed.

The women's game has come a long way in the past couple decades, it is much faster, the skill level is higher, the best teams work the ball around with a speed and precision that wouldn't have been imagined when their mothers or grandmothers were playing.
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You know it’s not working with fans, right?

WNBA players are kind of split on this.

What I don’t get are those who complain about not getting paid like the men but also refuse to make a change that would make their game more appealing to the average hoops fan.
 
As I watched w-lax last season, I appreciated the differences in the men and women games. I do not want the rims lowered since I like the differences between men and women basketball.
 
Buffnik said:
You know it’s not working with fans, right?

WNBA players are kind of split on this.

What I don’t get are those who complain about not getting paid like the men but also refuse to make a change that would make their game more appealing to the average hoops fan.
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If the standard is to make the women's game into the men's game then they will never succeed, and rules changes won't make it so.

The men's game is based on the physical characteristics of the men. Men are taller, jump higher and longer, are better equipped to push and shove.

The women's game has evolved to a game of precision passing, spacing, movement designed to generate quality shots.

If fans want to see dunks or power moves to the bucket they are not going to enjoy the women's game. Lower the rim and you will get some more dunks and drives but they still will not be the same as in the men's game.
 
Buffnik said:
Not for the sake of making it like the men’s game, but changing a rule to make it more exciting. Should WBB have not added a 3pt line because the men do it that way?
Click to expand...
The change makes it exciting because it makes it more like the men’s game. Women’s basketball isn’t as exciting as men’s basketball. That’s just the way it is. We shouldn’t be trying to change the game into something different.
 
Not Sure said:
The change makes it exciting because it makes it more like the men’s game. Women’s basketball isn’t as exciting as men’s basketball. That’s just the way it is. We shouldn’t be trying to change the game into something different.
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Even if it makes it more exciting?

At somewhere between 9' and 9'6", the women's game doesn't become like the men's game fwiw. Unless we're talking about a junior high boys game, considering the number of players on the court who would be able to dunk. It would add some more highlight reel, marketable plays. Wouldn't actually change the game much at all. Not like anyone's saying to put the rim at 8 feet. Just lower it enough to add some of that into the sport, which would be fun.

Does anyone think that seeing an alley oop dunk on a fast break in WBB would make the game worse?
 
Buffnik said:
Even if it makes it more exciting?

At somewhere between 9' and 9'6", the women's game doesn't become like the men's game fwiw. Unless we're talking about a junior high boys game, considering the number of players on the court who would be able to dunk. It would add some more highlight reel, marketable plays. Wouldn't actually change the game much at all. Not like anyone's saying to put the rim at 8 feet. Just lower it enough to add some of that into the sport, which would be fun.

Does anyone think that seeing an alley oop dunk on a fast break in WBB would make the game worse?
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The problem I’m having is that I think your definition of “exciting” basically mirrors that of the men’s game. More dunks = more exciting. I disagree with that assessment.
 
Not Sure said:
The problem I’m having is that I think your definition of “exciting” basically mirrors that of the men’s game. More dunks = more exciting. I disagree with that assessment.
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You don’t find a dunk more exciting than a layup?

Based on what gets fans on their feet and often causes an opponent timeout, I’m confident I am right about this one.
 
I do not want the women's game to be played like the men's game. I find the women's game exciting the way it is played now and have done so for many, many years. There are some women playing who can and do dunk. Not many, but some.

Women's bodies are not the same as men's bodies. Look at ACL injuries and the statistics on those.

I don't enjoy watching the men's games unless one of the teams I follow is playing and I rarely watch any professional game.
 
I’ve known many females who can shoot a men’s sized ball into a 10 foot hoop better than most dudes who play (myself included)

There’s not been anything overtly disrespectful brought up in this thread, but it feels like there are sexist undertones. My middle/high school career would have been way less fun if my girl friends were playing on a different court - seems like a metaphor for lowering their ceiling
 
Zachsquatch said:
I’ve known many females who can shoot a men’s sized ball into a 10 foot hoop better than most dudes who play (myself included)

There’s not been anything overtly disrespectful brought up in this thread, but it feels like there are sexist undertones. My middle/high school career would have been way less fun if my girl friends were playing on a different court - seems like a metaphor for lowering their ceiling
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Just so we're clear, there's nothing to read into what I am saying.

I enjoy women's sports. Not as much as men's sports, but I watch and I enjoy.

Appreciating them for what they are -- which is what I keep being told -- includes acknowledging that women are not as big or athletically explosive as men are. So that's going to result in a different style of play.

I don't understand how it's offensive to say that putting the rim at a height that will allow the women to generate some highlight reel plays that help sell the game, put asses in the seats and pull more eyeballs to broadcasts is something to be considered. I don't see how that is taken as disrespectful. But it is. To a lot of people. Like they're getting "triggered" because of some other crap that has nothing to do with the sincerity, tone and respect from which this conversation is coming. I want WBB to thrive because I respect the athletes who play it.
 
The best corralary I can think of is tennis. The games developed differently around some generalized physical traits of the sexes but over time it feels (to this infrequent viewer) as if the games are becoming more similar as women enter the league with all the physical traits needed to play the game in the same style as the men.

The game of football has evolved without any real influence from gender differences but again around the evolution of the traits of the players in the league. There’s just more 350lb dudes that can run a 4.3 and bench a house than there used to be which changed the way coaches scheme.

I think b-ball will follow a similar course. More girls develop the physical traits to bang and dunk and as a career in basketball is an option for longer those girls that would have been mocked when I was in school will be admired for these traits and choose that career path. This isn’t about the average female vs the average male. Our sports leagues only contain the freaks from the far ends of our distributions.

I say leave it alone. There are girls that can dunk. There will be more. Hold the standard the same and let them achieve.
 
LaserDeathHawk said:
I think b-ball will follow a similar course. More girls develop the physical traits to bang and dunk and as a career in basketball is an option for longer those girls that would have been mocked when I was in school will be admired for these traits and choose that career path. This isn’t about the average female vs the average male. Our sports leagues only contain the freaks from the far ends of our distributions.

I say leave it alone. There are women that can dunk. There will be more. Hold the standard the same and let them achieve.
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Fixed it!

All elite athletes are getting bigger and stronger. Some of the women who played basketball at CU 25 years ago and were stars might not be that successful today. Of course, their training would be completely different than it was 25 years ago.
 
No problem. I have a problem that people have no problem calling men's basketball players men while calling women's basketball players girls.
 
buffgal said:
No problem. I have a problem that people have no problem calling men's basketball players men while calling women's basketball players girls.
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Simple rule is that it is boys/girls sports through high school and mens/womens for all levels above that. It's a habit everyone should get into with how we speak.
 
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