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MBB Offseason: Boyle - "There's 5 starting spots open"

Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
"It is also important that those three freshmen coming in come in with the idea that they can have an impact on next year's team. They can have a major impact on next year's team. There's five starting spots open. That's the message. It's wide open. We've got to rebuild, because the expectations won't go away. Internally or externally."

"This isn't something that's going to be given just because you're a senior and it's your turn," Boyle said. "Guess what? You're a senior, you'd better play like a senior. You'd better act like a senior. And hopefully we'll get some leadership from Dom Collier, from Tory Miller, from George King. They're all capable. They're all wonderful young men. I love all three of them. But they have to all get better in many different areas."

http://www.buffzone.com/mensbasketball/ci_30861464/rebuilding-reloading-deck-cu-buffs-mens-hoops
 
I love Tad's comments and I am hoping for some accountability, but why does this seem like a constant theme with the hoops team? We have dealt with similar issues for the last 3-4 seasons.

Is this a recruiting issue? Coaching issue?
 
This offseason is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Bryce Peters...let's hope he can mature a bit and take advantage of it.

Not apples to apples, but I ran D1 track and was a complete moron my freshman year (bad grades and partying). Sometimes it takes a reality check to help some people reach their full potential.
 
Randy.Watson said:
I love Tad's comments and I am hoping for some accountability, but why does this seem like a constant theme with the hoops team? We have dealt with similar issues for the last 3-4 seasons.

Is this a recruiting issue? Coaching issue?
Click to expand...

I think it was a recruiting issue, first and foremost.

This is going to be a controversial take by me and will probably piss off some people: I think the best thing that happened was Rodney Billups getting the DU job. Coach A, as recruiting coordinator, helped to pull in Dre and then was behind the Spencer/Ski class as well as the J40/XJ/Wes class. Billups then took over. Those classes were 2013's King/Fletch/Thomas/Hopkins, 2014's Miller/Collier, 2015's Akyazili/Guzonjic, and 2016's Brown/Peters/Walton. Grier joined up in April of 2016 and that's when we re-focused our recruiting to add a stretch-4 shooter and landed Siewert and later added the Namon Wright transfer in July. Then, the 2017 class with Battey/Bey/Schwartz. When I look at the 5 guys post-Grier, I see a monumental uptick in our recruiting efforts.

fwiw, I think Rodney is a good coach and is a great fit for DU. I just don't think he was a great fit as CU's recruiting coordinator.
 
Buffnik said:
I think it was a recruiting issue, first and foremost.

This is going to be a controversial take by me and will probably piss off some people: I think the best thing that happened was Rodney Billups getting the DU job. Coach A, as recruiting coordinator, helped to pull in Dre and then was behind the Spencer/Ski class as well as the J40/XJ/Wes class. Billups then took over. Those classes were 2013's King/Fletch/Thomas/Hopkins, 2014's Miller/Collier, 2015's Akyazili/Guzonjic, and 2016's Brown/Peters/Walton. Grier joined up in April of 2016 and that's when we re-focused our recruiting to add a stretch-4 shooter and landed Siewert and later added the Namon Wright transfer in July. Then, the 2017 class with Battey/Bey/Schwartz. When I look at the 5 guys post-Grier, I see a monumental uptick in our recruiting efforts.

fwiw, I think Rodney is a good coach and is a great fit for DU. I just don't think he was a great fit as CU's recruiting coordinator.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. I used to follow the hoops team more closely, but the lack of effort and general disinterest from a few of the guys on the team turned me off a bit. I was wondering where that attitude was coming from, either the culture that Boyle allows, or just recruiting players that may not have the attitude to match their skill.

I hope in the future we can recruit more players with the mindset of a Nate T., Carlon Brown, Spence, Andre R, and Derrick White.
 
Randy.Watson said:
Thanks for the input. I used to follow the hoops team more closely, but the lack of effort and general disinterest from a few of the guys on the team turned me off a bit. I was wondering where that attitude was coming from, either the culture that Boyle allows, or just recruiting players that may not have the attitude to match their skill.

I hope in the future we can recruit more players with the mindset of a Nate T., Carlon Brown, Spence, Andre R, and Derrick White.
Click to expand...

Nate's the best example, I think. We can look at stats with him and he doesn't look great on paper. But what he brought is what Phillip Lindsay brings to football -- an absolute dog. We need dogs in the hoops program. Guys who will fight for every damn inch on defense, dive for loose balls, and attack on offense. Guys who will get in teammates' faces if they aren't being dogs or even Tad's face from time to time as competitors will do. Tad's a dog and dogs will butt heads. Culture has been too laid back, friendly and accommodating among teammates. We need dogs. NBA talent is also needed, but that's if we're talking about being able to make an Elite 8 run. The foundation, though, is having dogs that set the culture and get you into the Dance.
 
Buffnik said:
Nate's the best example, I think. We can look at stats with him and he doesn't look great on paper. But what he brought is what Phillip Lindsay brings to football -- an absolute dog. We need dogs in the hoops program. Guys who will fight for every damn inch on defense, dive for loose balls, and attack on offense. Guys who will get in teammates' faces if they aren't being dogs or even Tad's face from time to time as competitors will do. Tad's a dog and dogs will butt heads. Culture has been too laid back, friendly and accommodating among teammates. We need dogs. NBA talent is also needed, but that's if we're talking about being able to make an Elite 8 run. The foundation, though, is having dogs that set the culture and get you into the Dance.
Click to expand...

Someone likes what you're putting down...
giphy.gif
 
Buffnik said:
I think it was a recruiting issue, first and foremost.

This is going to be a controversial take by me and will probably piss off some people: I think the best thing that happened was Rodney Billups getting the DU job. Coach A, as recruiting coordinator, helped to pull in Dre and then was behind the Spencer/Ski class as well as the J40/XJ/Wes class. Billups then took over. Those classes were 2013's King/Fletch/Thomas/Hopkins, 2014's Miller/Collier, 2015's Akyazili/Guzonjic, and 2016's Brown/Peters/Walton. Grier joined up in April of 2016 and that's when we re-focused our recruiting to add a stretch-4 shooter and landed Siewert and later added the Namon Wright transfer in July. Then, the 2017 class with Battey/Bey/Schwartz. When I look at the 5 guys post-Grier, I see a monumental uptick in our recruiting efforts.

fwiw, I think Rodney is a good coach and is a great fit for DU. I just don't think he was a great fit as CU's recruiting coordinator.
Click to expand...

So glad to see this take. I wouldn't necessarily put it all on Rodney, after all the buck stops with the head coach. But I complained rather vociferously about the post Coach A recruiting about 2 years ago and was roundly shot down. We had some serious recruiting losses while Rodney was recruiting coordinator that we didn't have while coach A was leading the charge. The guys CU did take just can't measure up to the guys that came before them.

I also love the take about dogs. You hit the nail on the head there. A classic example is actually the women's team who has a bunch of enthusiastic dogs as coaches and two guards that are completely fearless dogs. Sure the team lacks overall talent right now, but talk about fun to watch....oh and they're still playing.
 
Gotta think that Boyle may be a real prick as a coach...he has had internal problems with players for the past 5 years..team could have used Hopkins and Thomas this year....both starters....Hopkins led FSU in scoring...Thomas a starter on a tourney team...you don't lose players like that unless the coach forced them out or there was conflict.... You see how he is trying to "change his tune" by his "I love the players...but......they gotta get better"....or more simply said...they are NOT good...
Tough to see this team being in the upper echelon of the Pac 12 next year unless these Frosh are bonafide blue chip players....
Hurley has ASU improving....Utah has our number....USC and UCLA look like perennial top 25 teams....Arizona will remain the class of the South.....
Not looking too promising right now.
 
SDB said:
Gotta think that Boyle may be a real prick as a coach...he has had internal problems with players for the past 5 years..team could have used Hopkins and Thomas this year....both starters....Hopkins led FSU in scoring...Thomas a starter on a tourney team...you don't lose players like that unless the coach forced them out or there was conflict.... You see how he is trying to "change his tune" by his "I love the players...but......they gotta get better"....or more simply said...they are NOT good...
Tough to see this team being in the upper echelon of the Pac 12 next year unless these Frosh are bonafide blue chip players....
Hurley has ASU improving....Utah has our number....USC and UCLA look like perennial top 25 teams....Arizona will remain the class of the South.....
Not looking too promising right now.
Click to expand...
Hmm. I was kind of thinking the opposite. That is that he needs to become a "real prick", to use your terminology.
 
SDB said:
Gotta think that Boyle may be a real prick as a coach...he has had internal problems with players for the past 5 years..team could have used Hopkins and Thomas this year....both starters....Hopkins led FSU in scoring...Thomas a starter on a tourney team...you don't lose players like that unless the coach forced them out or there was conflict.... You see how he is trying to "change his tune" by his "I love the players...but......they gotta get better"....or more simply said...they are NOT good...
Tough to see this team being in the upper echelon of the Pac 12 next year unless these Frosh are bonafide blue chip players....
Hurley has ASU improving....Utah has our number....USC and UCLA look like perennial top 25 teams....Arizona will remain the class of the South.....
Not looking too promising right now.
Click to expand...
Hopkins and Thomas are not good examples. They needed to leave and they frankly still aren't good players. Hopkins still can't shoot. So what?

I like what Nik posted above about Coach A and Rodney and I think it's true. I also think the whole Collier thing has been a tremendous bust, mainly because Rodney treated him like he was special from the get-go, which is fine if Collier was that special, but he's JAG, and that created some problems with guys like Askia. Collier is not a bad player, but he was probably over hyped by many.

But you can't build with a 3 run like 2013's King/Fletch/Thomas/Hopkins, 2014's Miller/Collier, 2015's Akyazili/Guzonjic. That's a 3 year run with not a single standout player.
 
We've all got opinions....and you know what they say about that...botton line is Roll Tad is about a .500 coach since Dinwiddie left...he has whiffed on closing the blue chippers...has had team chemistry issues for the past five years..and is batting .333 the last three years in getting to the dance...downward trend.... looking forward to the spring game!
 
SDB said:
We've all got opinions....and you know what they say about that...botton line is Roll Tad is about a .500 coach since Dinwiddie left...he has whiffed on closing the blue chippers...has had team chemistry issues for the past five years..and is batting .333 the last three years in getting to the dance...downward trend.... looking forward to the spring game!
Click to expand...
Please stop posting. Just a thought.
 
Say he is a prick at times, who gives a damn? His job is get the most out of you in many ways. Idk how most take that but, to me, it means he cares. If they have things they need to fix, I'm sure he tells them what it is. I always have more respect for coaches that don't bull**** you.
 
Buffnik said:
I think it was a recruiting issue, first and foremost.

This is going to be a controversial take by me and will probably piss off some people: I think the best thing that happened was Rodney Billups getting the DU job. Coach A, as recruiting coordinator, helped to pull in Dre and then was behind the Spencer/Ski class as well as the J40/XJ/Wes class. Billups then took over. Those classes were 2013's King/Fletch/Thomas/Hopkins, 2014's Miller/Collier, 2015's Akyazili/Guzonjic, and 2016's Brown/Peters/Walton. Grier joined up in April of 2016 and that's when we re-focused our recruiting to add a stretch-4 shooter and landed Siewert and later added the Namon Wright transfer in July. Then, the 2017 class with Battey/Bey/Schwartz. When I look at the 5 guys post-Grier, I see a monumental uptick in our recruiting efforts.

fwiw, I think Rodney is a good coach and is a great fit for DU. I just don't think he was a great fit as CU's recruiting coordinator.
Click to expand...

I can understand what you're saying, but I personally was really high on the '13 team. I would have loved to have Fletch and JHop on this year's team. They may not have made a huge difference in the end results, but I do think Hopkins' D would have helped a lot. On paper, '14 was also still decent imo, but we definitely missed on a few guys, and yeah, '15 was terrible. Agree that we needed a change on assistants to get recruiting on track, but I'm not sure losing Billups was net positive for CU - time will tell I guess.

buffaholic said:
Hopkins and Thomas are not good examples. They needed to leave and they frankly still aren't good players. Hopkins still can't shoot. So what?

I like what Nik posted above about Coach A and Rodney and I think it's true. I also think the whole Collier thing has been a tremendous bust, mainly because Rodney treated him like he was special from the get-go, which is fine if Collier was that special, but he's JAG, and that created some problems with guys like Askia. Collier is not a bad player, but he was probably over hyped by many.

But you can't build with a 3 run like 2013's King/Fletch/Thomas/Hopkins, 2014's Miller/Collier, 2015's Akyazili/Guzonjic. That's a 3 year run with not a single standout player.
Click to expand...

Hopkins is a great athlete that can D up on the perimeter - you really don't think he would have made an impact on this year's squad? No, he's not a great shooter, but he can get to the rim and defend. He was also supposedly a hard worker in practice. I was, and am still, disappointed that he left. I'm glad that he seems to be enjoying his college career.
 
Agree with Nik, even though I learned a lot from his post. I'd like to see the annual Boyle gets 1 year extension tradition stopped as a result of this past year.
 
I don't think Boyle is to blame as much as the players.
I really think there are 1 or 2 players that held the team back. XJ was a key player in 2014 and 2016 when we failed to meet expectations. He was out in 2015 when we made the tourney. Just putting 2 and 2 together and it seems like he may have been a big part of the problem. XJ and Wes were also the leaders who were suspended this year so it's quite possible that Tad recruited a couple potential stars that actually held us back.
I loved watching XJ when he was playing well, but you never knew when he was going to show up. His energy and effort was very sporadic.
 
dyemeduke said:
Hopkins is a great athlete that can D up on the perimeter - you really don't think he would have made an impact on this year's squad? No, he's not a great shooter, but he can get to the rim and defend. He was also supposedly a hard worker in practice. I was, and am still, disappointed that he left. I'm glad that he seems to be enjoying his college career.
Click to expand...

I got plenty of G2 on JHop and let's say there's a difference between being able and being willing. D was not his mindset.
 
I'm a big Tad supporter and I think all the criticism is warranted. The misses in three straight recruiting classes will be evident the next two years. 2018-2019 is the litmus test year.

One thing left unsaid in this thread: lack of player development. I see it more at CU than most programs, but Tad doesn't develop players well. Especially post players.

Scott, XJ, Wes, Collier, Miller, Roberson, Akyazili, Fortune seem to be the same as when they arrived.
 
buffaholic said:
I got plenty of G2 on JHop and let's say there's a difference between being able and being willing. D was not his mindset.
Click to expand...

...so... ...G2??? (I'm being serious, have no idea what you mean by that - first thing that comes into my mind is a type of Gatorade).

Whatever - that's fine if you don't like Hopkins and if we disagree - such is the nature of boards. FWIW though, Hopkins was 1st team all defense in the MWC this past year.
 
dyemeduke said:
...so... ...G2??? (I'm being serious, have no idea what you mean by that - first thing that comes into my mind is a type of Gatorade).

Whatever - that's fine if you don't like Hopkins and if we disagree - such is the nature of boards. FWIW though, Hopkins was 1st team all defense in the MWC this past year.
Click to expand...

I think it's military for "inside info".
 
rosstr said:
I'm a big Tad supporter and I think all the criticism is warranted. The misses in three straight recruiting classes will be evident the next two years. 2018-2019 is the litmus test year.

One thing left unsaid in this thread: lack of player development. I see it more at CU than most programs, but Tad doesn't develop players well. Especially post players.

Scott, XJ, Wes, Collier, Miller, Roberson, Akyazili, Fortune seem to be the same as when they arrived.
Click to expand...
Yea, your last point is dead wrong
 
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