Mike MacIntyre: Does He Make It Through 2016?

[Sykobuff]

No. Not when we were losing them by 50 points and now we are losing close games and the opponent plays it's starters the whole game. Peel the onion.

I peeled the onion, and it showed more close losses. The close losses in 2014 should have been wins in 2015. The objective is wins. 2-25 is horrendous no matter how you spin it.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I peeled the onion, and it showed more close losses. The close losses in 2014 should have been wins in 2015. The objective is wins. 2-25 is horrendous no matter how you spin it.

Wrong Thread

 

[Duff Man]

He is recruiting at a level that should be the floor going forward, so let's not act like that suddenly gives him more job security.

You also cannot ignore that he has totally botched the QB situation. He took over a bad situation and has failed to make it better.

 

[Sykobuff]

Wrong Thread

Wrong response

 

[buffaholic]

I peeled the onion, and it showed more close losses. The close losses in 2014 should have been wins in 2015. The objective is wins. 2-25 is horrendous no matter how you spin it.

You see improvement.

 

[buffaholic]

You consider last year a step forward compared to 2014?

Analytics show that. Absolutely.

 

[leftybuff]

No. Not when we were losing them by 50 points and now we are losing close games and the opponent plays it's starters the whole game. Peel the onion.

I guess I forgot to count the moral victories.

This is where you and I differ. I think the "we're getting closer" argument is misleading. The point margins, when one throws out the OOC blowouts like Nicholls St., or UCA, really aren't overwhelmingly better than Embree's. Admittedly, they are better, but still woeful.

2011 PF: 162, PA: 354, or an average loss of 21 points in P12 play.
2012 PF: 155, PA: 431, or an average loss of 31 points in P12 play
2013 PF: 183, PA: 354, or an average loss of 19 points in P12 play
2014 PF: 263, PA: 387, or an average loss of 13 points in P12 play
2015 PF: 177, PA: 291, or an average loss of 13 points in P12 play.

Is losing by 2 TD's better than losing by 3? Yeah, I guess. When push comes to shove, CU comes up short 9 out of 10 times. That kind of "success" is hard to justify. In the end you look at W-L, not margin of losses. I think Embree wanted to succeed badly, but simply was not equipped for the task at hand. But he won more than MikMac in P12 play.

I think you overstate how far Embree was down, and overstate how much "progress" MikMac has made. Embree's teams got crushed in 2012, no doubt, but MikMak's ability to keep from losing by a larger point margin is cold comfort when CU virtually never wins in league play. Just one man's opinion.

 

[slider]

$6mil and 3 years to "improve" the team. No wins though.

Thanks MM

 

[Sykobuff]

You see improvement.

Not in wins, bottom line.

 

[BuffUp]

I believe he is gone at the end of the year either way (unless we go bowling). If we struggle early in the year, I could see him gone and an interim HC appointed.
To much writing on the wall, lots of $ spent and have not seen an uptick anywhere

 

[buffaholic]

He is recruiting at a level that should be the floor going forward, so let's not act like that suddenly gives him more job security.

You also cannot ignore that he has totally botched the QB situation. He took over a bad situation and has failed to make it better.

I agree with this. Not having a guy who is ready as a PAC12 QB in the Apsay slot and not having found a transfer, Juco or otherwise for 2016 is his deal.

We will see the bed he's made soon enough. A lot will likely depend on how fast Montez can drink from the fire hose and I'm pretty sure that's not the position that HCMM wanted to be in for year 4. U

 

[slider]

I just hope we have legitimate expectations for the next coach.

 

[buffaholic]

Not in wins, bottom line.

LOL. We were getting beat by 50 at Fresno State and now we lose to UCLA on the road in a game we should have won. Bottom line.

Fire him after the last 3 years of improvement and you are sending a message that the AD is retarded. Good luck with hiring the next guy!

 

[SINKRATZ]

LOL. We were getting beat by 50 at Fresno State and now we lose to UCLA on the road in a game we should have won. Bottom line.

Fire him after the last 3 years of improvement and you are sending a message that the AD is retarded. Good luck with hiring the next guy!

Except that he's being paid to win, not be more respectable in losses. There has been improvement each year, but eventually you can't hang your hat on incremental improvement that doesn't result in wins. I think this is/should be the year that wins begin to matter.

 

[CitizenKane]

Why oh why isn't there the choice of, "CU wins its first two games and strikes out the rest of the season, but RG keeps MM anyway because he sees progress in recruiting?"

 

[Yellow Shirt]

For the win/loss absolutists: make the initial assumption that our team is equal in overall assessment to each team on a 12 game schedule; flip a coin for each game; repeat for 20, 12 game seasons. Examine these "season records" for meaning, credit and blame.

This exercise should temper your position and slow your reactionary tendencies.. but it won't.

Extra credit: do another 20 years but if every time CU flips a win, the other team gets a second flip for the win. Examine these "season records."

 

[buffaholic]

Except that he's being paid to win, not be more respectable in losses. There has been improvement each year, but eventually you can't hang your hat on incremental improvement that doesn't result in wins. I think this is/should be the year that wins begin to matter.

Actually, he's not being paid to win up to now. He's being paid to rebuild a ****show.

He's being paid to dig this program out of a historic crater. Nobody is going to measure that process in the first 3 years in wins, in our conference with our schedules. You measure it with process based on all the analytics available to you. When Embree was fired, this was never looked at as a 2 or 3 year process.

HCMM's first real recruiting class will be mostly SOPHOMORES next year. College Football braintrusts understand this is a complete turnaround job, starting with relaying foundation. And most would consider what's been accomplished so far to be highly successful. We are now getting recruiting interest because of that OUTSIDE perception that this program is coming. It's imperative to keep that momentum.

There's not much room to Improve without seeing results in the W-L column. We need to win some more games this year to keep that going, absolutely.

 

[wyomingBUFF]

No way he gets fired after 1 game but the seat will get hot. I think bowl game is the "break even point".

I agree with those that say our hole was even deeper than people remember. And I do believe our program is much improved on every level, but there is still a ways to go. That being said, this is the point at which we should start seeing some real results in terms of wins.

Remember 2012 with Embree? The scores almost don't matter because the opposing scrubs were in by the 3rd quarter in the majority of these games, could have been much worse even.

vs. Colorado State* L 17–22
Sacramento State (FCS)* L 28–30
at Fresno State* L 14–69
at Washington State W 35–34
UCLA L 14–42
Arizona State L 17–51
at #11 USC L 6–50
at #2 Oregon L 14–70
#15 Stanford L 0–48
at Arizona L 31–56
Washington L 3–38
Utah L 35–42

 

[SINKRATZ]

Actually, he's not being paid to win up to now. He's being paid to rebuild a ****show.

He's being paid to dig this program out of a historic crater. Nobody is going to measure that process in the first 3 years in wins, in our conference with our schedules. You measure it with process based on all the analytics available to you. When Embree was fired, this was never looked at as a 2 or 3 year process.

HCMM's first real recruiting class will be mostly SOPHOMORES next year. College Football braintrusts understand this is a complete turnaround job, starting with relaying foundation. And most would consider what's been accomplished so far to be highly successful. We are now getting recruiting interest because of that OUTSIDE perception that this program is coming. It's imperative to keep that momentum.

There's not much room to Improve without seeing results in the W-L column. We need to win some more games this year to keep that going, absolutely.

Rebuild or no rebuild ultimately every college coach is paid to win. I can live with the pain we've endured clawing our way back to respectability, but it's time to start measuring "progress" in wins and losses. $3M+ per conference victory isn't good enough moving forward.

 

[Kuratz]

Honest question: if CU makes a bowl at 5-7 (with 3 conference wins) is that considered a success?

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Very few programs have ever dug themselves out of the hole we were in for a sustained time. He took over a program with Shane Dillon annoited as the QB savior (remember Shane being the face of the program when HCMM was hired)?

This program is in much better shape than 3 or 5 years ago when we were the laughing stock. Ask UCLA if we are more competitive now than 4 years ago. As much as people want to bitch about our original staff or recruiting then, we were at the bottom with a team of guys who didn't really care.

He's done a job that few others have done to get us from embarrassing to mediocre. Lets just judge him on how this program improves. If it fails to take the steps forward that it's done each year, fire him.

Bravo. You made my point more soundly that the program is improving outside of the wins and losses department. And were no longer worse than a lot of G5 teams let alone the Pac12. Add in the rumor that Bohn insisted he bring his staff SJSU and he gets a mulligan. If those factors are all part of the equation this is why I see him surviving without making a bowl game due to the fact that this was total reclamation project. Though not for very much longer after that.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

You consider last year a step forward compared to 2014?

1. Lose by a lot
2. Lose by a little (<--You are here in year 3)
3. Win by a little
4. Win by a late

 

[DiggerBuffs]

$6mil and 3 years to "improve" the team. No wins though.

Thanks MM

Your day is coming according to everyone's thoughts.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Why oh why isn't there the choice of, "CU wins its first two games and strikes out the rest of the season, but RG keeps MM anyway because he sees progress in recruiting?"

That would be the 2017 option.

 

[White_Rabbit]

buffaholic getting the excuses rolling early I see.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Honest question: if CU makes a bowl at 5-7 (with 3 conference wins) is that considered a success?

If we are Nebraska. I don't know, I think it means we have won the first two and then beat Oregon State, Wazzou and Utah at home. That means little in my book and I don't see George keeping a 3-7 MacIntyre around for the last two.

 

[Buffnik]

Honest question: if CU makes a bowl at 5-7 (with 3 conference wins) is that considered a success?

A small one that would be significant. 5-7 is improvement from 4-9 and the bowl streak would be over.

We've been down so far for so long that I wouldn't complain much about the low end of mediocrity. Not what I want by any stretch, but better than a sharp stick in the eye.

 

[leftybuff]

Honest question: if CU makes a bowl at 5-7 (with 3 conference wins) is that considered a success?

Success? Yeah. Keep him? Yeah. It would show a positive trajectory. I am not sure 5-7 guarantees a bowl though. It would mean CU won 3 P12 games, and that would be a good showing. I could live with it.

 

[TDforTD]

A small one that would be significant. 5-7 is improvement from 4-9 and the bowl streak would be over.

We've been down so far for so long that I wouldn't complain much about the low end of mediocrity. Not what I want by any stretch, but better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I think it's also important to note how we look in our losses. There are 4 incredibly tough road games that I don't think we can be mad about if we lose. However, our recruits will be watching, and with the theme of CU being on the rise, we absolutely cannot look like we don't belong on national tv against Michigan, Oregon, Stanford, and USC. We are locked in on some tight recruiting battles against all 4 of those teams, and some hard fought games and maybe an upset win would do wonders for the promise of our rise. I can accept a 5 win bowl season if it means looking competitive every single week.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

No way he gets fired after 1 game but the seat will get hot. I think bowl game is the "break even point".

I agree with those that say our hole was even deeper than people remember. And I do believe our program is much improved on every level, but there is still a ways to go. That being said, this is the point at which we should start seeing some real results in terms of wins.

Remember 2012 with Embree? The scores almost don't matter because the opposing scrubs were in by the 3rd quarter in the majority of these games, could have been much worse even.

vs. Colorado State* L 17–22
Sacramento State (FCS)* L 28–30
at Fresno State* L 14–69
at Washington State W 35–34
UCLA L 14–42
Arizona State L 17–51
at #11 USC L 6–50
at #2 Oregon L 14–70
#15 Stanford L 0–48
at Arizona L 31–56
Washington L 3–38
Utah L 35–42

We were fricking abysmal back then. Losing to an FCS team was really, really bad. I think we finished within 10-20 from the bottom for several FBS defensive categories on the NCAA website. We were one of the worst teams in the nation.

If you believe the rumors about the coaches that politely said no to us, on top of the one that publicly took off for Tenn mid process, the above might explain why. It seems that CU did some soul searching after this and started the process of taking football seriously again.