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More Big 12 South arrogance

sackman said:
. There just happens to be a lot of people who worship Texas.
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This is the issue. They believe that because they are Texas they are something special and deserve special treatment. Why shouldn't they call the shots in their conference, they are Texas, why shouldn't they be allowed to "take care of" their players, they are Texas." When Darrell Scott came to CU and the shocked Texas fans started talking about a job in a bank for DS's mom, it wasn't something they dreamed up or borrowed from watching Alabama and Auburn go at it. It is assumed in Texas that having a son who contributes to the Texas football program can be good financially for the son and the family.

It's not a question of cheating or trying to pull one over on others, it just comes from a sense of entitlement that exist. They just do things differently down there. They have other schools, they have pro teams, but Texas football has it's place and in their mind that gives privileges to them.

They expect a little bigger piece of the pie financially, after all it is Texas, they expect favorable scheduling, after all it is Texas, they expect first pick on the bowl games, and to pick the site of the conference championship game and tournaments, after all it is Texas.

The PAC would have loved to have Texas from a money standpoint. The deal that Larry Scott negotiated for media rights would have been even bigger for each school had Texas joined in. At the same time, the PAC members did not and would not accept Texas on Texas terms. They understand that in the short term letting Texas be Texas may mean a lot more money but in the long term it is only good for Texas. Schools like Iowa State, KSU, OSU, Tech, Baylor, KU have to accept Texas on the Terms Texas sets because they don't have a better option. OU and aTm are willing to take some of Texas crap because Texas shares some benefits with them and lets them ride above the lower end schools as well. Because of the set-up in the PAC their members don't have to accept the Texas attitude and didn't.

Texas had an offer to join the PAC and probably still does if they want it. They didn't take it though because the offer was if you want to part of us, you will a part of us, one vote, one share of the money, one voice at the table, nothing more, nothing less. In the attitude of many Texas fans this is unacceptable because after all, it is Texas.
 
MtnBuff said:
Texas had an offer to join the PAC and probably still does if they want it.
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I doubt this. Each school has veto power. Mike Bohn has seen first hand what kind of damage UT can do to member schools. If it comes down to it, I honestly think we veto them. The other 11 schools can be easily blinded by the bling, but we know better.
 
sackman said:
I doubt this. Each school has veto power. Mike Bohn has seen first hand what kind of damage UT can do to member schools. If it comes down to it, I honestly think we veto them. The other 11 schools can be easily blinded by the bling, but we know better.
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As arrogant and obnoxious as Texas is I think that the PAC, including Bohn would be willing to bring them in because of the money they bring with them. The caveat on this is that it would be under the terms that the PAC sets, equal distribution financially, equal say on conference matters, and no you can't bring a bunch of your friends along to influence the vote on issues. With the influence that Texas has on the media in their section of the country, and their support nationaly adding them would mean significant extra money to each of the schools in the PAC, as in millions extra. Hard to turn down that kind of cash.

It is exactly for this reason that Texas isn't interested. They would likely go independant before putting themselves in a situation that they say as bringing themelves down to the same level as everyone else in the conference. They see themselves as being special because of their income generating ability.
 
"Because after all it's Texas"... Mtn Buff has hit it right on the head. The attitude has always been there and it gets more visible and obnoxious when they are winning... not nearly as bad when I was growing up in the late 80's early 90's before Mack Brown turned the program around but always there. You would be amazed how many Texas State, Sam Houston State, etc alums there are that claim Texas....lot of T-shirt fans here. Me and my girlfriend loved going walking around town lake this year on sunday morning after they were losing because the number of burnt orange decreased every weekend :)
 
sackman said:
OU has not one, but two media markets - OKC and Dallas. Maybe three if you add Tulsa.
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OKC, sure. It is the 47th largest media market in the US. Tulsa is not in the top 50. I don't believe there are enough OU fans in Dallas that you can consider the Dallas market being "delivered" if you add OU.

sackman said:
Dallas is only a couple hours South of Norman and there are a lot of OU fans in North Texas. I think you underestimate what those schools can offer.
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That could be true, but as I said above I don't believe that "a lot of OU fans" are enough to consider Dallas a PAC market with the addition of OU. OU by itself I'm sure the PAC would love to have, but don't forget, Stanford vetoed Texas in the 90's - I know that things are different now, but not SO different that they would allow a third tier school like New Mexico with no media market.

sackman said:
Texas brings a lot - I understand that. They also bring pain and destruction to all members of their conference. Those other schools do no such thing. The Texas AD makes a lot of money because they have a 100,000+ seat stadium that they sell out every week. They have a boatload of donors that write checks, too. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between Texas and everybody else. It's not media markets. They share media markets with five other schools, two professional football teams and three professional basketball franchises. There just happens to be a lot of people in Texas.
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On this we wholeheartedly agree. If the Pac-12 Network ends up being a partnership with Apple or Google and lives primarily on the internet, media markets will end up being WAY less of a big deal anyway. Then it will just be about number of fans, period.
 
OU and UT are a package deal. When OU is in the same conference as UT, the DFW market is signed, sealed and delivered.

A foundation of OU's identity is comparing how the Sooner's stack up against the Longhorns each year.

If the Sooner's were to bolt to the P12, and be forced into a 9-game conference schedule, they'd be concerned about losing the tradition rich Red River Rivalry. Losing the RRR would be a deal breaker for OU fans and UT fans. With a 9-game conference schedule, having one game each year against a perennial mNC contender on a neutral site is tough to justify on those years when there are only 4 home conference games. Both OU's and UT's business model is based on filling their big campus stadiums six or seven times a year. This is harder to do now than it was back in the Big 8 days, unless the P12 created an 8 game conference schedule.

The worse case scenario for CU would be to get sucked into an Eastern pod off some expanded P12 conference and be placed in the same division as both UT and OU, thereby getting limited access to California.
 
Maxer said:
OKC, sure. It is the 47th largest media market in the US. Tulsa is not in the top 50. I don't believe there are enough OU fans in Dallas that you can consider the Dallas market being "delivered" if you add OU.



That could be true, but as I said above I don't believe that "a lot of OU fans" are enough to consider Dallas a PAC market with the addition of OU. OU by itself I'm sure the PAC would love to have, but don't forget, Stanford vetoed Texas in the 90's - I know that things are different now, but not SO different that they would allow a third tier school like New Mexico with no media market.



On this we wholeheartedly agree. If the Pac-12 Network ends up being a partnership with Apple or Google and lives primarily on the internet, media markets will end up being WAY less of a big deal anyway. Then it will just be about number of fans, period.
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I'm not sure if it's a Maxer thing, or a broader standard of the Pac (soon to be) 12, but I appreciate the polite, well-informed discourse I'm seeing in this thread.

As I've said before, I don't need to hate our new conference mates (except for USC, but that has nothing to do with sharing a conference, and everything to do with their fans) to enjoy my college athletics experience.

It's so much more enjoyable than the ****ing bull**** that those asshole pricks from ****ing nebraska provided us over the years. The cocksnots really downgraded the dialogue around Allbuffs. ****ers.
 
The Walrus said:
I'm not sure if it's a Maxer thing, or a broader standard of the Pac (soon to be) 12, but I appreciate the polite, well-informed discourse I'm seeing in this thread.

As I've said before, I don't need to hate our new conference mates (except for USC, but that has nothing to do with sharing a conference, and everything to do with their fans) to enjoy my college athletics experience.

It's so much more enjoyable than the ****ing bull**** that those asshole pricks from ****ing nebraska provided us over the years. The cocksnots really downgraded the dialogue around Allbuffs. ****ers.
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Especially since we set the bar so low.
 
Maxer said:
OKC, sure. It is the 47th largest media market in the US. Tulsa is not in the top 50. I don't believe there are enough OU fans in Dallas that you can consider the Dallas market being "delivered" if you add OU.



That could be true, but as I said above I don't believe that "a lot of OU fans" are enough to consider Dallas a PAC market with the addition of OU. OU by itself I'm sure the PAC would love to have, but don't forget, Stanford vetoed Texas in the 90's - I know that things are different now, but not SO different that they would allow a third tier school like New Mexico with no media market.



On this we wholeheartedly agree. If the Pac-12 Network ends up being a partnership with Apple or Google and lives primarily on the internet, media markets will end up being WAY less of a big deal anyway. Then it will just be about number of fans, period.
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If you added UT and OU Dallas would definitely be delivered. Without Dallas, OU and OSU would not exist in the way that they do now. I would guess at least 30% of the students from each school are from the DFW metroplex.
 
Dallas sends a lot of kids to OU and a lot of OU grads relocate in Dallas. Dallas is a very big OU town. i was in DFW two weeks ago and OU gear is sold side by side with UT and ATM in the shops. the Dallas Morning News covers OU in addition to the Texas schools.

it's also my experience with OU fans that they like the idea that they are underdog to Texas' arrogance, $$$, and pompous self-image and still stand up to them on the football field. they like having that chip on their shoulder. now, concessionary measures to UT's Bold Plan for the Future (whatever that is)....may produce an ultimate financial and recruiting asymmetry that a post-Stoops OU can't match.

edit: i still guess at the end of the day that OU and ATM go the SEC. OSU is on the verge on being a player. good hoops and as long as Gundy is putting up 9-10 win seasons with T. Boone writing checks. they are also good at the "spring sports" that are big in the south....baseball, golf, etc. maybe Clemson is the other SEC acquisition and someone moves from east to west for balance.
 
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GregInAustin said:
If you added UT and OU Dallas would definitely be delivered. Without Dallas, OU and OSU would not exist in the way that they do now. I would guess at least 30% of the students from each school are from the DFW metroplex.
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Yes. I understand that a very large proportion of the students and athletes at OU and OSU are from Dallas. The Dallas metro area has approx 6.5 million people in it, however. I would venture to say that of those 6.5 million, the majority of those who are football fans root for other programs -- primarily UT, probably followed by A&M, and then maybe OU and the rest of the Texas schools.
 
Although OU would not deliver the ratings that UT would in the Dallas metro, I feel confident that if we expanded with OU, OSU and TTU that the Pac-12 Network would be carried by Texas cable providers. Those 3 plus KU would be the strongest expansion group, imo. (I think Mizzou is too far east to make sense.)
 
Buffnik said:
Although OU would not deliver the ratings that UT would in the Dallas metro, I feel confident that if we expanded with OU, OSU and TTU that the Pac-12 Network would be carried by Texas cable providers. Those 3 plus KU would be the strongest expansion group, imo. (I think Mizzou is too far east to make sense.)
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Missouri is in a tough spot in that they don't quite fit into any conference - they are geographically out there in no man's land... Lucky for them Texas has decided to keep them on board, for now.
 
Maxer said:
Yes. I understand that a very large proportion of the students and athletes at OU and OSU are from Dallas. The Dallas metro area has approx 6.5 million people in it, however. I would venture to say that of those 6.5 million, the majority of those who are football fans root for other programs -- primarily UT, probably followed by A&M, and then maybe OU and the rest of the Texas schools.
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I'd need to see some facts before conceding A&M has more support in DFW than OU. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if OU is a bigger draw than Aggie in the big D. OU has an annual presence in Dallas with the RRS, plus the occasional Jerryworld exhibition (like BYU), former CCG and somewhat rare bowl game. The RRS brings in $17M to the city, and the fan support is split pretty much down the middle.

By comparison, A&M seldom plays in Dallas. OU grads are drawn to DFW in bulk for work in numbers that seem to be greater than A&M. Also DFW supports winners. OU has been winning more than A&M.

I'd believe that A&M is more popular in Houston, San Antonio and most of rural Texas. But they might be #3 in Dallas.
 
sackman said:
OU is a close #2 in Dallas. A&M is probably #4, behind TCU.
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TCU, SMU, OU, OSU, and maybe even UNT/Baylor/Tech are probably all bigger in Dallas than the Aggies. College Station and Dallas are polar opposites in the state of Texas, even though they are only a few hours from one another (which is extrememly close in Texas). Only the "2 percenters" end up in Dallas, the rest of the A&M "former students" generally go to Houston, SA, Austin, or prison.
 
Buffnik said:
Although OU would not deliver the ratings that UT would in the Dallas metro, I feel confident that if we expanded with OU, OSU and TTU that the Pac-12 Network would be carried by Texas cable providers. Those 3 plus KU would be the strongest expansion group, imo. (I think Mizzou is too far east to make sense.)
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OK -- that makes sense. As for adding those three without Texas, I think it would be hard sell with the Pac-12. My impression from the AD I spoke to was that they (and their bosses, the University Presidents) were willing to take Okla St (you're in the PAC now, OSU = Oregon St.) and Texas Tech as sort of a necessary evil to get the $$ that Texas would bring. I think that their interest in Okla St. and Tech without UT rhymes with "wero".
 
Skidmark said:
I'd need to see some facts before conceding A&M has more support in DFW than OU. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if OU is a bigger draw than Aggie in the big D. OU has an annual presence in Dallas with the RRS, plus the occasional Jerryworld exhibition (like BYU), former CCG and somewhat rare bowl game. The RRS brings in $17M to the city, and the fan support is split pretty much down the middle.

By comparison, A&M seldom plays in Dallas. OU grads are drawn to DFW in bulk for work in numbers that seem to be greater than A&M. Also DFW supports winners. OU has been winning more than A&M.

I'd believe that A&M is more popular in Houston, San Antonio and most of rural Texas. But they might be #3 in Dallas.
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Interesting -- thanks. Almost everyone I know out here (LA) from Texas went to UT, and trying to have a sane conversation with them about this kind of stuff usually devolves pretty quickly into "TEXAS IS THE BEST IN EVERYTHING ALWAYS YOU SHUT UP". Or something close to it. Then usually they eat queso.
 
Maxer said:
Interesting -- thanks. Almost everyone I know out here (LA) from Texas went to UT, and trying to have a sane conversation with them about this kind of stuff usually devolves pretty quickly into "TEXAS IS THE BEST IN EVERYTHING ALWAYS YOU LALA AGGIE CAN GO CHOKE ON A BAG OF DICKS". Then usually they eat queso using their index and pinky fingers.
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FIFY. There is a rule to make an obligatory Aggie slur followed by a penis stuffed in some oraface reference. It's in the UT by-laws under the "Communicating with loser fans from inferior colleges" section.You got the Queso
 
Maxer said:
Interesting -- thanks. Almost everyone I know out here (LA) from Texas went to UT, and trying to have a sane conversation with them about this kind of stuff usually devolves pretty quickly into "TEXAS IS THE BEST IN EVERYTHING ALWAYS YOU SHUT UP". Or something close to it. Then usually they eat queso.
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No way...my (Texass-born) kids love queso, and that is never a menu option in Cali...
 
Creatini said:
DallasBuff...is that you in your avatar? I pictured you saying that with that expression.
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Yes, it is me....a blonde-headed bimbo rich bitch living in Southlake, spewing out consistent garbage....
 
Maxer said:
Interesting -- thanks. Almost everyone I know out here (LA) from Texas went to UT, and trying to have a sane conversation with them about this kind of stuff usually devolves pretty quickly into "TEXAS IS THE BEST IN EVERYTHING ALWAYS YOU SHUT UP". Or something close to it. Then usually they eat queso.
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Now you are starting to scratch the surface of the reason why UT is not, and never should be, welcome in the Pac. We can get to 16, get the media markets, and avoid them.
 
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