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Need help first, then a story to tell....
- Thread starter Ruckus
- Start date
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
The highest rated recruit that I knew about was Wesley Witherspoon, but he was a forward. He ended up at Memphis.
aik
Well-Known Member
Maybe that was him. Anyway here's the story.
So the dude is in town on his visit, doing whatever, and there is a huge BBQ everyone is at and Bohn shows up to the BBQ and didn't see the recruit so he asked Bz where the kid was and Bz said he sent the kid home.
His reasons were that the kid was rude. He didn't take his earphones out much, acted like he was better than everyone, wouldn't shake hands with a lot of people, whatever. Bz said that he wouldn't put up with that attitude so he sent the kid home and told him to play somewhere else.
I agree that the kid's actions were rude and not ideal with the culture Bz wants to create for his basketball team, but attitudes can be changed. Why not tell the kid how things are and how he needs to act and if he doesn't change his attitude, then he will not be welcomed. A senior in high school who is that highly recruited is going to be arrogant, but he can be humbled.
This kind of brings me back to his dismissal of other players for their off the court actions. Immediately tossing kids is basically saying that those kids cannot or will not change. People this age change their attitudes and behaviors all the time.
So the dude is in town on his visit, doing whatever, and there is a huge BBQ everyone is at and Bohn shows up to the BBQ and didn't see the recruit so he asked Bz where the kid was and Bz said he sent the kid home.
His reasons were that the kid was rude. He didn't take his earphones out much, acted like he was better than everyone, wouldn't shake hands with a lot of people, whatever. Bz said that he wouldn't put up with that attitude so he sent the kid home and told him to play somewhere else.
I agree that the kid's actions were rude and not ideal with the culture Bz wants to create for his basketball team, but attitudes can be changed. Why not tell the kid how things are and how he needs to act and if he doesn't change his attitude, then he will not be welcomed. A senior in high school who is that highly recruited is going to be arrogant, but he can be humbled.
This kind of brings me back to his dismissal of other players for their off the court actions. Immediately tossing kids is basically saying that those kids cannot or will not change. People this age change their attitudes and behaviors all the time.
Interesting story.
I've got to tell you, I agree with Bzdelik on this one. It would be different with an established culture with senior leadership (kind of like how the Patriots have successfully integrated some misfits in the NFL). But when you're establishing a culture, you have to be very selective. A guy with that kind of talent would have come to CU and immediately been the guy that the young players looked to as a leader. That would have been a disaster.
I've got to tell you, I agree with Bzdelik on this one. It would be different with an established culture with senior leadership (kind of like how the Patriots have successfully integrated some misfits in the NFL). But when you're establishing a culture, you have to be very selective. A guy with that kind of talent would have come to CU and immediately been the guy that the young players looked to as a leader. That would have been a disaster.
The Guest
Guest
If I were the head coach of Allbuffs, I assure you that you would not be welcome to post here.
I'm fine with his decision, just thought it was interesting that he doesn't care to try and change someone as a person for the better, just hope they are how he expects them to be from the get-go.
See, I don't even think this is true. You're making a huge generalization based on one kid that Bz didn't like. He was very patient with Melo and forged an excellent relationship. He was also known as the guy on the Washington Bullets staff that would coach up the rookies. My take on your story is that Bz simply did not believe the kid would be a good fit.
Maybe he said something to the kid and the kid didn't respond so he sent him packing. No biggie to me. You don't need some twatbucket around when you are trying to establish a culture in a sport with so few players like basketball.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
This happens more than you think Rugged. I've heard of a couple of similar stories from the football team. I think Jeff made the right move.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
There's a little bit more involved than that.
Not really. If the kid is that good, then Bzzz needed to swallow his pride and get the kid in here. If he's not, then Bzzz can be as cavalier about it as he wants to be. I have no idea if this kid is a game changer or not, but if he is, then Bzzz made a mistake, IMO.
There can be all kinds of complicating matters here. In the end, basketball is probably the only sport where one single player - particularly at the college level - can be the difference between winning and losing. You don't pass on guys like that because they're "rude".
Again, I have no idea whether the kid is that good or not, I'm just sayin'.
aik
Well-Known Member
There's a fine line the coach must walk when choosing between what's talented enough to be a true difference maker in a program and what will undermine his control of the team. Could a Bzdelik team that runs circles around any Patton squad in terms of discipline and respect for the coaches end up getting CU that first tourney win since 1997? I don't know, but I like the fact that he sees respect as part of a player's skill set from the beginning. Bz has already established himself as a discipline guy, and if he's made the decision that's how he wants to win, then I'll support it as long as his teams keep showing improvement. The season is early but the results look promising.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Yes really.
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Bad generalization on my part, but this is nothing like dealing with a pro.
I agree. I don't know all of the details of what happened and what he saw, just thought it was interesting. I'm fine with his decision.
Coach B has publicly shared this story before without sharing specific names. But, there is a key element of the story that is not included in Rugged's portrayal.
Coach B, in telling the story, affirmed everything that Rugged said. And then went on to say that the PLAYERS came to him on the side and said "coach, what's up with this kid? He isn't a good guy. He doesn't fit in."....or something very similar.
IMO, this is a VERY important addition. Part of the recruiting process is when kids come to town for their visit and the current players have an opportunity to evaluate the kid, his personality etc.... Buzz was unsure about him, the players didn't like him, so he was sent packing. I don't care how good of a player the guy is, but if you do as sacky suggests and keep him because he is that good, you would run the chance of losing the respect of a number of the current players and setting a precedent that everything you have preached up to that point is only lip service.
It is Buzz's precedent and mutual respect with the players that he isn't willing to backtrack on. I agree with that 100%.
Coach B, in telling the story, affirmed everything that Rugged said. And then went on to say that the PLAYERS came to him on the side and said "coach, what's up with this kid? He isn't a good guy. He doesn't fit in."....or something very similar.
IMO, this is a VERY important addition. Part of the recruiting process is when kids come to town for their visit and the current players have an opportunity to evaluate the kid, his personality etc.... Buzz was unsure about him, the players didn't like him, so he was sent packing. I don't care how good of a player the guy is, but if you do as sacky suggests and keep him because he is that good, you would run the chance of losing the respect of a number of the current players and setting a precedent that everything you have preached up to that point is only lip service.
It is Buzz's precedent and mutual respect with the players that he isn't willing to backtrack on. I agree with that 100%.
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Taking the example to the extreme, if this kid were the next Michael Jordan, do you send him packing?
Evidently, he isn't, so Bzz did the right thing. But for a guy in Bzdelik's position, he can't afford to be too cavalier about sending talent packing. He doesn't have enough of it to begin with. So yes, it really is that simple.
Yes it is.
Yes it is.
yes it is - infinity. I win.
Thank you for adding this in. Yes he has shared the story publicly, which is why I felt it was okay to post it. I wish I had known the full story, but thank you for clearing it up.
I've known Bz for five or so years and have always liked him. I didn't mean to imply I thought he was doing something wrong, I just didn't know enough about the story. Thanks Bill.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Wow. The next MJ. :lol:
I realize that this has been explained to you numerous times on the BB board. I'm not sure if you just ignore it, or if you're just messing around. So you win Sacky. :lol: Buzz just cut the next MJ. :lol:
Oh holy sh!t where did I say that? Please show me where I ever said that.
I don't think I'm the one with comprehension problems here. Look, it's simple - Basketball is a game where ONE player can be the difference between winning and losing (OMG, how many times do I have to say that before it sinks in?). IF this kid was that good, then Bzdelik made a mistake. Did you get the "IF", and the "THEN" part? Do I need to repeat it? Nowhere, in any of my posts did I say that the kid WAS that good. Nowhere. The whole point of this thread is to speculate as to whether Bz did the right thing. When your team is at the bottom of the conference two years in a row, you don't have much room for error.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
:lol: :thumbsup: Buzz just cut MJ!
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
You should read this post. http://www.allbuffs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=571198&postcount=19
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
If he's that arrogant, and copping that much of an attitude, then yes. I send him packing. Oh, and MJ was great - without a 'tude.
dabuffffs
New Member
Highflyer
Club Member
I swear to God I must be typing in Greek letters or something. Nobody has the first clue what I'm saying, even after repeating it several times.
I'm in bizarro world.
A bizarro world you created with your hypothetical.
And did you see what Bill Cody said with regard to the players not liking him?