Northern Iowa Lookalike & Game thread - MBB (Boulder, Tuesday, 12/10, 7:00 PM MT, Pac 12 Networks)

[Alfred91]

Another thing that is going around here, the narrative that a) they didn't have a play set up coming out of the timeout with a minute left and b) they weren't going to attack #50, is wrong. From my angle it was obvious what they were doing: the play was to draw help away, get the ball to Battey, and allow him to attack #50. The problem was execution. #30 from UNI read Kin the whole way. He was breaking on the ball before Kin even let it go.

Put it this way: if Montez had thrown that pass, no one would be talking about how ****ty of a coach MT is.

 

[seattlebuff]

Any discussion on here of Kin being at fault whatsoever is straight horse ****. Without that guy, we would have lost by 10 at least tonight and we'd be 4-5 this year probably. Made a couple bad plays down the stretch but made a couple huge ones too, as he so often does. Watching anybody else bring it up the floor is horrifying.

As long as he gets ZERO help from the other guards on this team, we will be nothing but a mid level P12 team at best that misses the tournament again. Book it. Kountz looks like he doesn't even want to be out there half the time, like he's sleepy. Lazy passes and can't shoot a lick. Sure, Kin finds him on an occasional back cut that looks pretty, but the dude is a total non-factor. Parquet has zero offensive game. Daniels does all these BS playground dribble moves beyond on the arc but NEVER gets by anyone. Gatling shoots 25% from 3 and 30% overall. When the other team can basically ignore 4 of your 5 guards, you've got problems.

Tad's ongoing inability to find even a decent off guard has reached chronic levels. And lest we forget ... Kin is only here because Indiana hired Archie Miller and he didn't have a scholly for Kin. Total luck for us ...

 

[ZandiBuff]

Another thing that is going around here, the narrative that a) they didn't have a play set up coming out of the timeout with a minute left and b) they weren't going to attack #50, is wrong. From my angle it was obvious what they were doing: the play was to draw help away, get the ball to Battey, and allow him to attack #50. The problem was execution. #30 from UNI read Kin the whole way. He was breaking on the ball before Kin even let it go.

Put it this way: if Montez had thrown that pass, no one would be talking about how ****ty of a coach MT is.

Bull****

Other than the last second desparation play to get Lucas a chance at a 3, 98% of every single inbound play we have involves 1 of 2 options. Run in circles and hope someone ends up open in the corner, or toss it to a tall guy on the perimeter so he can hand it to Kin to restart our amazing, super effective half court offense.

When was the last time we even Looked inside on an inbound play?

 

[Alfred91]

Bull****

Other than the last second desparation play to get Lucas a chance at a 3, 98% of every single inbound play we have involves 1 of 2 options. Run in circles and hope someone ends up open in the corner, or toss it to a tall guy on the perimeter so he can hand it to Kin to restart our amazing, super effective half court offense.

When was the last time we even Looked inside on an inbound play?

Man, that's just some lazy ****ing analysis.

First, in the play in question, of course they went with the half court offense, time wasn't a factor. There was no need to rush anything. Second, the pass that was picked was going to Battey, who was presumably going to attack #50, the dude with 4 fouls who Battey had abused 3 times earlier in the half. So, the ball was going inside, except for the whole '#30 read the whole play, stole the telegraphed pass, and went the other way with it" thing.

If you want to bitch about it, you could complain that there wasn't enough creativity in finding a way to do what everyone in the gym knew what they were going to do. Instead you're just regurgitating old complaints that have little to nothing to do with what actually happened.

 

[hokiehead]

Another thing that is going around here, the narrative that a) they didn't have a play set up coming out of the timeout with a minute left and b) they weren't going to attack #50, is wrong. From my angle it was obvious what they were doing: the play was to draw help away, get the ball to Battey, and allow him to attack #50. The problem was execution. #30 from UNI read Kin the whole way. He was breaking on the ball before Kin even let it go.

Put it this way: if Montez had thrown that pass, no one would be talking about how ****ty of a coach MT is.

Thanks for this. I don't claim a deep technical knowledge of basketball and it's very likely I confused 'poor execution' with 'lack of planning'.

I still feel that, in general, CU runs fewer scripted/called plays than other teams I follow.

 

[cu3x]

Bull****

Other than the last second desparation play to get Lucas a chance at a 3, 98% of every single inbound play we have involves 1 of 2 options. Run in circles and hope someone ends up open in the corner, or toss it to a tall guy on the perimeter so he can hand it to Kin to restart our amazing, super effective half court offense.

When was the last time we even Looked inside on an inbound play?

He would be the first to say he had some awful and costly plays. So far, his freshman year was his best.

I wonder about TB's ability to get his team mentally ready

 

[Birch1]

Man, that's just some lazy ****ing analysis.

First, in the play in question, of course they went with the half court offense, time wasn't a factor. There was no need to rush anything. Second, the pass that was picked was going to Battey, who was presumably going to attack #50, the dude with 4 fouls who Battey had abused 3 times earlier in the half. So, the ball was going inside, except for the whole '#30 read the whole play, stole the telegraphed pass, and went the other way with it" thing.

If you want to bitch about it, you could complain that there wasn't enough creativity in finding a way to do what everyone in the gym knew what they were going to do.

Look, Spencer learned to disregard every end of the game out of bounds play Atkinson draws up here in Boulder. Fact.

 

[rodrigo]

There are performances that should make fans angry. 100% justified and we’re part of the problem if we accept this crap. Not only did the team choke, but it let Northern Iowa make them their bitch on the offensive glass.

This. As a fan why should I accept year after year of the same result - underperforming teams that play a brand of ball that frankly is not at all fun to watch? Maybe some basketball purist can recite the beauties of Tadball one more time but ugly games that turn into ugly losses suck.

 

[Buffnik]

This. As a fan why should I accept year after year of the same result - underperforming teams that play a brand of ball that frankly is not at all fun to watch? Maybe some basketball purist can recite the beauties of Tadball one more time but ugly games that turn into ugly losses suck.

My comment was specific to last night, not in any way about the program in general or how I see the season playing out. The things I'm most pissed about are outliers that violate the "toughness" cornerstone of Tad's program.

 

[rodrigo]

My comment was specific to last night, not in any way about the program in general or how I see the season playing out. The things I'm most pissed about are outliers that violate the "toughness" cornerstone of Tad's program.

Fair enough. My comment still stands but I won’t assume you share my view.

I’m a casual fan., not a b-ball devotee. I’ve tried really hard to get behind the program but just keep seeing the same thing over and over. Every year the same outcome.

Boring, ugly and uninspiring. That describes Surveyor’s love life, not something I want to voluntarily watch.

 

[Scotch]

My comment was specific to last night, not in any way about the program in general or how I see the season playing out. The things I'm most pissed about are outliers that violate the "toughness" cornerstone of Tad's program.

The end of the 1st half was the indicator. UNI hustled to get a 1 point lead going in to the locker room and take the momentum away from the Buffs. The beginning of the 2nd half when UNI built up that double digit lead was predictable.

I was disappointed Walton didn't get more minutes last night.

 

[BIGEZ321]

This is a very disappointing and frustrating loss. I'm more frustrated with the inability to make their shooters drive and letting UNI's shooters get the ball at all. I think we would've won easily if they switched all ball screens to prevent their shooters from catching the ball on the wings. Let them shoot 2's.

Something is off with Tad's offense. Most of the players don't know what to do with the ball when they get it. I think it's a lack of confidence. Tad needs to draw up a play out of every timeout because the normal offense sucks. Why can't we draw up some alley-oops for Bey? Can we even try?

Tad was flat out out coached, especially the last 1:07 of the game. UNI drew up a great out of bounds plays that we weren't ready for and the trap on the Wright ball screen sealed the deal. Ball screens, behind, late, in a tight game, is very risky because it opens you up for a quick trap, and Tad should know that. UNI knew exactly what Tad wanted to do.

I think CSU is a must win, for RPI and BPI purposes. Lose that game and we might start thinking about NIT again.

 

[Darth Snow]

That loss hurt bad. Seeing the team fail to play up to their standard on defense is one thing, but watching this experienced team bungle the last two minutes in horrific fashion after coming back made it so much worse. What McKinley did the last 3 of 4 offensive possessions was criminal.

Second, something was broken last night. Tad said players were playing for themselves and not trusting the calls in the post game radio interview. I think we can all guess who he was talking about (I don't see how Kin isn't the main reference) but that is terrifying because this team CANT HAVE THAT. We are not talented enough. The only way this team achieves its goals is by being a better team than the other guys. We cannot do that unless there is buy in. Dangerous stretch coming up.

That said, Tad does this every ****ing year. Even the Spencer knee year we had some early downs. But until Spencer got hurt, they didn't last long. It's on the team leaders to snap these guys out of this slump. It started on offense, but now it has infected the defense. Offense was fine last night outside of turnovers. If the defense goes, there goes the tournament.

I'm excited to see how they respond. This group has always responded so far.

 

[BuffsNYC]

I'm excited to see how they respond. This group has always responded so far.

You're better than me. I hope they can pull their heads out of their asses, but I'm not hopeful and I won't be going out of my way to watch ****ty basketball anytime soon.

 

[Darth Snow]

You're better than me. I hope they can pull their heads out of their asses, but I'm not hopeful and I won't be going out of my way to watch ****ty basketball anytime soon.

You have to stay up later than me to do it! I don't blame you, it's been a couple weeks of ugly performances in a row. I trust them to figure it out. When they figure it out will determine what kind of season we have.

 

[ahoelsken]

You have to stay up later than me to do it! I don't blame you, it's been a couple weeks of ugly performances in a row. I trust them to figure it out. When they figure it out will determine what kind of season we have.

I didn't watch the game-had a pretty easy Metro league game to work last night, but I'll say this: The only good thing about this loss is it could be the wake up call that pulls this team out of the funk they've been since they came home from Vegas.

 

[Buffnik]

That loss hurt bad. Seeing the team fail to play up to their standard on defense is one thing, but watching this experienced team bungle the last two minutes in horrific fashion after coming back made it so much worse. What McKinley did the last 3 of 4 offensive possessions was criminal.

Second, something was broken last night. Tad said players were playing for themselves and not trusting the calls in the post game radio interview. I think we can all guess who he was talking about (I don't see how Kin isn't the main reference) but that is terrifying because this team CANT HAVE THAT. We are not talented enough. The only way this team achieves its goals is by being a better team than the other guys. We cannot do that unless there is buy in. Dangerous stretch coming up.

That said, Tad does this every ****ing year. Even the Spencer knee year we had some early downs. But until Spencer got hurt, they didn't last long. It's on the team leaders to snap these guys out of this slump. It started on offense, but now it has infected the defense. Offense was fine last night outside of turnovers. If the defense goes, there goes the tournament.

I'm excited to see how they respond. This group has always responded so far.

Yep. On talent, what we have are 7ish good Pac-12 players with a couple who are probably non-lottery picks at some point. Many of them will have nice international/G League pro careers.

With that, they have to play like Chauncey’s Pistons. Without superstars in a superstar sport, you need great defense and rebounding with efficient offensive possessions that result in good shots. Little opportunity to have a guy individually take over and get buckets outside flow. So it’s all about taking shots and avoiding empty possessions.

Basically, I’m parroting what Tad says but am putting it a different way.

 

[seattlebuff]

Yep. On talent, what we have are 7ish good Pac-12 players with a couple who are probably non-lottery picks at some point. Many of them will have nice international/G League pro careers.

With that, they have to play like Chauncey’s Pistons. Without superstars in a superstar sport, you need great defense and rebounding with efficient offensive possessions that result in good shots. Little opportunity to have a guy individually take over and get buckets outside flow. So it’s all about taking shots and avoiding empty possessions.

Basically, I’m parroting what Tad says but am putting it a different way.

Who are the 7 “good” P12 players? Of course Kin, Bey, Battey, and (most nights) Schwartz and Siewert.

Beyond those 5, I don’t see any more “good” P12-level players, and it’s pushing whether they are even average, especially from an offensive skill set standpoint. The 4 other guards besides Kin aren’t even close, 2-3 of them frankly are mid-major quality at best.

 

[ZandiBuff]

Yep. On talent, what we have are 7ish good Pac-12 players with a couple who are probably non-lottery picks at some point. Many of them will have nice international/G League pro careers.

With that, they have to play like Chauncey’s Pistons. Without superstars in a superstar sport, you need great defense and rebounding with efficient offensive possessions that result in good shots. Little opportunity to have a guy individually take over and get buckets outside flow. So it’s all about taking shots and avoiding empty possessions.

Basically, I’m parroting what Tad says but am putting it a different way.

Wrong. Tad Boyle never mentions offense.

You can win with defense and rebounding - you never actually have to play offense.

 

[Deleted member 807]

My analysis of last night ... I miss Jelly, Dre, Nate, the Mayor, and various spark plugs from Tad’s early tenure who make Buffs B-ball fun to watch.

When I seek talent without the want-to, I’ll watch Anna Kendrick sell hotel rooms.

 

[Buffnik]

Wrong. Tad Boyle never mentions offense.

You can win with defense and rebounding - you never actually have to play offense.

Huh? Offense has been most of what he has talked about to the media all season. A/T ratio needing to improve, playing inside-out, making the extra pass, running the offense instead of playing as an individual. He's been like a broken record on that stuff.

 

[Darth Snow]

Wrong. Tad Boyle never mentions offense.

You can win with defense and rebounding - you never actually have to play offense.

This is an ignorant post. I'm not saying you are an ignorant person. I'm saying you lack factual knowledge which you claim to possess.

 

[BuffLuke80]

One thing that drives me crazy about this O is having to jack up crap so late in the shot clock pretty often, if they get a shot off at all. Seems like I've seen that in quite a few games this year. Having a go to scorer would help with that of course. Since they really don't for the most part, you gotta get the O rolling somehow. Transition, off turnovers, whatever, do something.

 

[Buffnik]

Again -- why are people bitching about the offense after last night?

We shot 50% from 3pt range, 47% from the field and 89% from the FT line.

We had a huge improvement in our A/T issues, getting that to a 13/15 -- which is good enough to win even if not good enough to be the team we want.

Why did we lose?

We got out-rebounded, keyed by UNI getting 15 offensive rebounds to our 10.

Also, not showing up in the basic stats, is that CU is giving up too many points in the paint as a general thing this year and it was a major problem against UNI.

 

[Not Sure]

So, we didn’t learn from the loss to Kansas, huh?

did we learn anything in this game? For a team that went into the season with such high expectations, we seem to be learning a lot.

 

[Buffnik]

So, we didn’t learn from the loss to Kansas, huh?

did we learn anything in this game? For a team that went into the season with such high expectations, we seem to be learning a lot.

The issue is that they're not doing all the good stuff that they seemed to have learned the last third of last season. They've fallen back into some bad habits during this rough stretch. A big part of that, I think, is that McKinley is struggling. When he is right it covers for a lot of what this team lacks and they become a Top 20 caliber group.

 

[hokiehead]

Again -- why are people bitching about the offense after last night?

We shot 50% from 3pt range, 47% from the field and 89% from the FT line.

We had a huge improvement in our A/T issues, getting that to a 13/15 -- which is good enough to win even if not good enough to be the team we want.

Why did we lose?

We got out-rebounded, keyed by UNI getting 15 offensive rebounds to our 10.

Also, not showing up in the basic stats, is that CU is giving up too many points in the paint as a general thing this year and it was a major problem against UNI.

Disagree.

15 turnovers -- maybe that's improvement, but there's warranted criticism of the O from last night.

 

[seattlebuff]

Again -- why are people bitching about the offense after last night?

We shot 50% from 3pt range, 47% from the field and 89% from the FT line.

We had a huge improvement in our A/T issues, getting that to a 13/15 -- which is good enough to win even if not good enough to be the team we want.

Why did we lose?

We got out-rebounded, keyed by UNI getting 15 offensive rebounds to our 10.

Also, not showing up in the basic stats, is that CU is giving up too many points in the paint as a general thing this year and it was a major problem against UNI.

76 points is deceiving.

Take away Siewert’s highly anomalous scoring spurt and Battey’s surge at the end (he had his first bucket in the last 5 minutes of the game), and we looked out of sorts a lot on offense, like we have most of this season. Soooo many dumb turnovers. As I’ve stated, we’re getting virtually nothing from the guard spot besides Kin. Bey doesn’t create his own offense, like Battey does ... he scores off offensive rebounds and inside dishes. Schwartz is back to struggling with confidence in his shot.

 

[Buffnik]

Disagree.

15 turnovers -- maybe that's improvement, but there's warranted criticism of the O from last night.

It's not the criticism that is annoying me. Good shooting night, but inconsistency which included stretches that were awful offense.

But offense is not the thing that went wrong compared to all the games they've won this season. What went wrong was that the team played soft -- physically and mentally -- with that most glaringly showing up in an outlier night with rebounding. We also don't usually give up such deep post position or so many drives to the basket for easy opponent paint points.

They played most of the night like they thought they could just show up and out-talent UNI without having to match UNI's effort. If I wasn't a CU fan and had just tuned into that game as a random one to watch, I'd have ended up rooting hard for UNI based on how invested each team was in giving its best. So, no, I'm not going to join in or really understand a conversation about Tad's inbounds plays, offensive system or designed plays within the offense -- that is not what this loss was about.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Again -- why are people bitching about the offense after last night?

We shot 50% from 3pt range, 47% from the field and 89% from the FT line.

We had a huge improvement in our A/T issues, getting that to a 13/15 -- which is good enough to win even if not good enough to be the team we want.

Why did we lose?

We got out-rebounded, keyed by UNI getting 15 offensive rebounds to our 10.

Also, not showing up in the basic stats, is that CU is giving up too many points in the paint as a general thing this year and it was a major problem against UNI.

As far as what I said, I wasn't talking so much about the O last night. More or less what I've seen in some games this year, it's also pretty common this early on. You're right about the rebounding, that was huge in this game. Paint points was big as well.