Northwestern players are trying to get a union started

[SuperiorBuff]

The counter-argument is if Johnny Manziel is bringing in hundreds of millions to A&M, why shouldn't he get a larger piece of the pie?

If you were Johnny Manziel would you be happy just getting your scholarship?

Because, for every Manziel there are tens of thousand of players wher the scholarship is the best thing they will get. Manziel is also getting an incredibly visible stage with which to showcase his skill set for the NFL; where if he is truly good enough, he will get his millions. I don't give a **** what Manziel, or any other collegiate star, wants or thinks he is entitled to. The NFL has an age entry requirement and he is in the minor leagues until he hits that age. He is getting paid the equivalent of a minor league player.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

If you believe in the free market, you wouldn't have a problem with this.

Bull****. The free market dictates a minimum time period out of high school. He needs to live by their rules.

 

[cubuffs85]

Because, for every Manziel there are tens of thousand of players wher the scholarship is the best thing they will get. Manziel is also getting an incredibly visible stage with which to showcase his skill set for the NFL; where if he is truly good enough, he will get his millions. I don't give a **** what Manziel, or any other collegiate star, wants or thinks he is entitled to. The NFL has an age entry requirement and he is in the minor leagues until he hits that age. He is getting paid the equivalent of a minor league player.

Johnny Manziel hypothetically could be in some horrific car accident and never see a dime.

Anyways, my argument has always been with college basketball players they have a choice -- they can play in Europe, the D-League, or sit out a year. If they think college is where they can showcase their skills best than don't complain about not getting paid. The NFL not so much since there is no other league really in the world where they can play -- not sure what the CFL rules are, but that's a different system in itself.

 

[BlackNGold]

The counter-argument is if Johnny Manziel is bringing in hundreds of millions to A&M, why shouldn't he get a larger piece of the pie?

If you were Johnny Manziel would you be happy just getting your scholarship?

And how about the guy who never cracks the 2 deep which is the prevalent situation. Plus I doubt that Manziel is bringing "hundreds of Millions of Dollars" to Texas A&M. The university estimates his impact to be $20,000 which he will easily recoup after the draft. LINK

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Johnny Manziel hypothetically could be in some horrific car accident and never see a dime.

Anyways, my argument has always been with college basketball players they have a choice -- they can play in Europe, the D-League, or sit out a year. If they think college is where they can showcase their skills best than don't complain about not getting paid. The NFL not so much since there is no other league really in the world where they can play -- not sure what the CFL rules are, but that's a different system in itself.

I don't see how that's NCAA member Universities' problem.

 

[cubuffs85]

Bull****. The free market dictates a minimum time period out of high school. He needs to live by their rules.

That's not the free market. That's the NFL rules, which is a monopoly. He's under the guidelines of college athletics which says he's a "student-athlete."

 

[J.R. Ewing]

That's not the free market. That's the NFL rules, which is a monopoly. He's under the guidelines of college athletics which says he's a "student-athlete."

There are lots of organizations that have minimum age or experience requirements. You can't be a Senator or commercial pilot at 18.

 

[cubuffs85]

And how about the guy who never cracks the 2 deep which is the prevalent situation. Plus I doubt that Manziel is bringing "hundreds of Millions of Dollars" to Texas A&M. The university estimates his impact to be $20,000 which he will easily recoup after the draft. LINK

His impact is 20k, yeah that's a lie. Of course, they want to minimize his effect overall on the University. It's not a coincidence they were heavily renovating the stadium after the most success they've had in a few decades. Ask Baylor how much RG3's Heisman was worth, again building a new stadium and getting donations because of their success.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Johnny Manziel hypothetically could be in some horrific car accident and never see a dime.

It happens every year to some aspiring high school athelete. Buy insurance if you have the means. If not, the degree they can earn is a damn good fallback.

Anyways, my argument has always been with college basketball players they have a choice -- they can play in Europe, the D-League, or sit out a year. If they think college is where they can showcase their skills best than don't complain about not getting paid. The NFL not so much since there is no other league really in the world where they can play -- not sure what the CFL rules are, but that's a different system in itself.

My argument is that the NCAA is the NFL minor league and these kids are being paid similar, or better, wages than other minor leagues. There are requirements to stay illegible, but they do have a choice. The system is fine.

 

[cubuffs85]

There are lots of organizations that have minimum age or experience requirements. You can't be a Senator or commercial pilot at 18.

Now you're starting to get into child labor laws. You can't be President until you are 35. The point is there's not a whole lot of jobs, which says you have to be 19 or older. If a student in the college of music wanted to supplement their income or even drop out of school and sign a record label they could.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

That's not the free market. That's the NFL rules, which is a monopoly. He's under the guidelines of college athletics which says he's a "student-athlete."

If he wants to play the game then he plays by the NFL rules. If he has a problem with those rules, he needs to challenge the NFL. Several industries in the free market have minimum age rules; the NFL isn't unique.

 

[unionbuff]

Now you're starting to get into child labor laws. You can't be President until you are 35. The point is there's not a whole lot of jobs, which says you have to be 19 or older. If a student in the college of music wanted to supplement their income or even drop out of school and sign a record label they could.

How is that an argument for student-athletes getting paid?

 

[cubuffs85]

It happens every year to some aspiring high school athelete. Buy insurance if you have the means. If not, the degree they can earn is a damn good fallback.

My argument is that the NCAA is the NFL minor league ant these kids are being paid similar, or better, wages than other minor leagues. There are requirements to stay illegible, but they do have a choice. The system is fine.

Obviously you can buy insurance, but he could get a lot more if saw the money he was bringing in.

You can't compare the baseball minor leagues to college football. They can sign right out of high school and get a huge signing bonus. You can't do that in college football. They also can solely focus on their sport.

Tell me what the "choice" is if you don't want to play college football besides sitting out three years?

 

[cubuffs85]

How is that an argument for student-athletes getting paid?

How many other college students aren't allowed to be compensated for their services?

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Obviously you can buy insurance, but he could get a lot more if saw the money he was bringing in.

You can't compare the baseball minor leagues to college football. They can sign right out of high school and get a huge signing bonus. You can't do that in college football. They also can solely focus on their sport.

Tell me what the "choice" is if you don't want to play college football besides sitting out three years?

Maybe you should start a minor league football league, or sue the NFL on their behalf. Once again, how is that the problem of the University of Colorado or others?

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Obviously you can buy insurance, but he could get a lot more if saw the money he was bringing in.

You can't compare the baseball minor leagues to college football. They can sign right out of high school and get a huge signing bonus. You can't do that in college football. They also can solely focus on their sport.

Tell me what the "choice" is if you don't want to play college football besides sitting out three years?

Again, that is an issue with the NFL not the NCAA. IF you don't like a rule the NFL has, you don't try to change the NCAA because of it.

 

[cubuffs85]

Maybe you should start a minor league football league, or sue the NFL on their behalf. Once again, how is that the problem of the University of Colorado or others?

Because these athletes are bringing in a lot of money to the school and not being compensated. Did the Jeremy Bloom situation bother you? Was the NCAA right not to allow him to accept endorsements?

 

[cubuffs85]

Again, that is an issue with the NFL not the NCAA. IF you don't like a rule the NFL has, you don't try to change the NCAA because of it.

So you're a college football player who wants to be compensated, how do you go about it?

 

[SuperiorBuff]

So you're a college football player who wants to be compensated, how do you go about it?

You are being compensated. Give back the back the $50K+ and file suit against the NFL.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Because these athletes are bringing in a lot of money to the school and not being compensated. Did the Jeremy Bloom situation bother you? Was the NCAA right not to allow him to accept endorsements?

Reexamining that particular rule and having full-on paid athletes are not the same thing.

As for the money they're bringing in, when you factor in the expense of the other non-revenue generating Olympic sports, the number of universities that are in the black enough to pay their athletes is not large.

 

[unionbuff]

Because these athletes are bringing in a lot of money to the school and not being compensated. Did the Jeremy Bloom situation bother you? Was the NCAA right not to allow him to accept endorsements?

Bloom & Manziel are 10000000x different --- Bloom wanted endorsements for a non-NCAA sanctioned Olympic sport that he wasn't under scholarship for at the University of Colorado. That does not help your argument either.

 

[cubuffs85]

You are being compensated. Give back the back the $50K+ and file suit against the NFL.

Maurice Clarrett already tried that, that's why they are going after the NCAAs.

 

[cubuffs85]

Bloom & Manziel are 10000000x different --- Bloom wanted endorsements for a non-NCAA sanctioned Olympic sport that he wasn't under scholarship for at the University of Colorado. That does not help your argument either.

Where did I say they were the same? I was just asking about that situation. The NCAA said he couldn't play football at the university and accept endorsements at the same time, just like any other athlete.

 

[cubuffs85]

Reexamining that particular rule and having full-on paid athletes are not the same thing.

As for the money they're bringing in, when you factor in the expense of the other non-revenue generating Olympic sports, the number of universities that are in the black enough to pay their athletes is not large.

I didn't say they were the "same thing."

Why should football players be responsible for what the cross country team does? It's not their fault that CU (or Alabama) is having sports that can't generate revenue.

 

[unionbuff]

Reexamining that particular rule and having full-on paid athletes are not the same thing.

As for the money they're bringing in, when you factor in the expense of the other non-revenue generating Olympic sports, the number of universities that are in the black enough to pay their athletes is not large.

Agreed. Texas schools aside, most of the the money brought in by these universities at their peak (including CU) probably help pay for the facilities and scholarships of the non-revenue athletes. Plus, a good portion of CU's scholarship athletes are not on full-ride scholarships. cubuffs85 probably should be advocating so strongly for our cross-country members who are only on 1/2 scholarships and running in the Olympics without endorsement opportunity.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Maurice Clarrett already tried that, that's why they are going after the NCAAs.

Again, wrong target. The NCAA is not the problem. Perhaps they should file suit against the NCAA for being too popular and effectively eliminating minor leagues. Limit the money universities can bring in so these poor deprived young men, who do something most young men would donate body parts to be able to do, can join a minor league network. Perhaps it should be owned by Walmart since that is where 80% of them will work when they fail to make the NFL with no degree.

 

[cubuffs85]

http://deadspin.com/the-ncaa-should-pray-that-players-are-able-to-form-a-un-1511822250

College sports are a multi-billion dollar business. If the athletes who make it popular and lucrative—after spending countless hours training, traveling and playing—aren't "employees," then what does the word mean? There is growing scientific evidence about the dangers of football, yet the young men who fill their schools' stadiums and coffers, selling branded merchandise and ensuring generous TV contracts, shouldn't be given medical coverage and insured against long-term disability as the groundskeepers and athletic directors and coaches are?

 

[Highlander]

So basically's you're advocating Universities start running minor league sports programs.


As long as college athletes are college students, Title 9 applies. You cannot pay Johnny Manziel $1 million a year without paying your worst female swimmer too. There's no getting around that.

In order to start paying athletes significant chunks of cash, you'd have to drop them as students. Is this reaalllly the road you want to go down?

That couldn't be further from the truth. Do you believe CU's WBB team has the same budget as the Men's BB team?

[h=2]Myth No. 4: Schools must spend equally on men's and women's sports[/h]There is nothing in the language of Title IX that demands equal spending. And few athletic departments spend equally. Almost universally, they spend more on men's programs. A Women's Sports Foundation study found female college athletes received only 35 percent of total athletic expenditures as recently as the 2004-05 school year.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/title-ix/article/7729603/five-myths-title-ix

 

[cubuffs85]

Again, wrong target. The NCAA is not the problem. Perhaps they should file suit against the NCAA for being too popular and effectively eliminating minor leagues. Limit the money universities can bring in so these poor deprived young men, who do something most young men would donate body parts to be able to do, can join a minor league network. Perhaps it should be owned by Walmart since that is where 80% of them will work when they fail to make the NFL with no degree.

Ok so you tell me the "target" since it's not the NCAAs and the NFL has already been tried. If the college system didn't exist, the NFL would have to start a minor league. These guys would get paid one way or another.

I do think the tide is changing on this one. I didn't think they would get paid 20 years ago, but I think it's going to come, just a question of when.

 

[prime teets]

its 85 against the world, again.