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OL recruiting - a big problem

sackman

sackman

Hates the Counting Crows.
Club Member
Thurston, Callahan, Kozan, O'Connor... Now Fox. This isn't an isolated thing anymore. It's a trend. A very worrisome trend. We've now whiffed on an entire front five of in-state guys. This is a real issue. It can't be ignored any longer. No more glossing it over with "He was going out of state anyway". That might work with one or two guys, not every single one of them.
 
I'm not in panic mode but agree, this is a trend that needs to be turned around sooner than later.

We need a significant commit or two on the OL by camp season to show that we are going to compete at the position.
 
How OL recruiting has gone since Embree and his staff took over:

Alex Kelley: A CU legacy who committed to the last staff. Not much recruiting needed to be done to hold on to him.
Marc Mustoe: Good get by Embree after he took over. Interesting to note he did not meet Marshall until after he had been committed for a couple weeks.
Paulay Asiata: Good get by the staff in a team effort. Obviously the fact that he has since left the program hurts.
Brad Cotner: A guy who was not on the radar of many teams and he jumped on our offer (his only one).
Jeromy Irwin: May end up being the best of this bunch. A guy we were in on early and that work paid off with a commitment shortly before the season. Good work by the staff to hold on to him.
Gerrad Kough: Committed to us over the summer when we were his only BCS offer. Nothing changed during the season and he ended up signing with us.

We have some work to do.
 
If we don't land 4-5 quality OL this cycle then i would say it is a big problem. So far it is okay.

Nembot- LT, now at about 310 pounds according to reports, has 4 years of eligibility left

Mustoe- RT came in at 270 pounds, has the frame to bulk up to about 310 pounds , has 4 years of eligibiliy left

Alex Lewis LT/RT- has about 3 years of eligibility left

Kelly- C/OG reported to be about 320 pounds by Embree at his news conference, has about 4 years of eligibility left

Cotner-C/OG- currently at 290 pounds, his film looks good, should compete for the starting job early, could even beat out Handler. Don't be surprised if Cotner sees playing time.

Jeremy Irwin, Caldwell and Kough are redshirt candidates.

Depth

LT- Lewis, Nembot
LG- Bakhtiari, Kelly
C- Handler, Cotner
RG-Munyer, Crabb,
RT-Danniewitz, Harris,Mustoe


Harris, Crab, Cotner and Kelly can all play multiple position. And i suspect they will give Nembot and Mustoe some time at Guard during spring ball. Topou and Kofovalu can also play OL. Losing Asiata was tough, but i believe CU is still on the right track.
 
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I don't see us making the necessary offensive improvement unless we improve on OL. I'm a recruiting novice but still unsure why OL was not more important with the most recent class. One thing that I hope Embo will not hesitate to change/upgrade his assistant coaches. If Marshall is not pulling his load recruiting/coaching than I would hope he goes.

That said, assistant coach instability, lower talent level, and lower salaries as compared to other programs (resulting in an inability to get better asst coaches when needed) are, in my opinion, some of the top issues that have held CU back and hampered improvement. And I'd rank this above facility improvements.
 
buffs said:
I don't see us making the necessary offensive improvement unless we improve on OL. I'm a recruiting novice but still unsure why OL was not more important with the most recent class. One thing that I hope Embo will not hesitate to change/upgrade his assistant coaches. If Marshall is not pulling his load recruiting/coaching than I would hope he goes.

That said, assistant coach instability, lower talent level, and lower salaries as compared to other programs (resulting in an inability to get better asst coaches when needed) are, in my opinion, some of the top issues that have held CU back and hampered improvement. And I'd rank this above facility improvements.
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The staff took
Mustoe, Nembot, Cotner, Asiata, Lewis in 2011 that about 5 OL
This cycle they took 3 Kelly, Kough, Irwin,


The DL and DB was more important, apart from Pericak, the team has nothing on the DL front. And we all saw how USC torched our secondary last year. The team has a lot of holes, OL is not the biggest of needs right now.
 
bigbang2 said:
The staff took
Mustoe, Nembot, Cotner, Asiata, Lewis in 2011 that about 5 OL
This cycle they took 3 Kelly, Kough, Irwin,


The DL and DB was more important, apart from Pericak, the team has nothing on the DL front. And we all saw how USC torched our secondary last year. The team has a lot of holes, OL is not the biggest of needs right now.
Click to expand...
USC torched everyone's secondary.
 
bigbang2 said:
The staff took
Mustoe, Nembot, Cotner, Asiata, Lewis in 2011 that about 5 OL
This cycle they took 3 Kelly, Kough, Irwin,


The DL and DB was more important, apart from Pericak, the team has nothing on the DL front. And we all saw how USC torched our secondary last year. The team has a lot of holes, OL is not the biggest of needs right now.
Click to expand...

I think there's something you're not getting here, so I'm just going to come out and say it: just filling most spots with any OL doesn't really do the trick, we need good OL. We need to win recruiting battles against BCS schools for OL, not just find guys with one other offer from Portland State or something. I'm all for finding the occasional diamond in the rough, but not basing most of a unit off of those guys and then claiming "we're fine".
 
CVilleBuff said:
I think there's something you're not getting here, so I'm just going to come out and say it: just filling most spots with any OL doesn't really do the trick, we need good OL. We need to win recruiting battles against BCS schools for OL, not just find guys with one other offer from Portland State or something. I'm all for finding the occasional diamond in the rough, but not basing most of a unit off of those guys and then claiming "we're fine".
Click to expand...

Especially with the heavy reliance on the run game. Good OL is essential in any situation, but it would be nice to give the running game larger holes .
 
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buffs said:
I don't see us making the necessary offensive improvement unless we improve on OL. I'm a recruiting novice but still unsure why OL was not more important with the most recent class. One thing that I hope Embo will not hesitate to change/upgrade his assistant coaches. If Marshall is not pulling his load recruiting/coaching than I would hope he goes.

That said, assistant coach instability, lower talent level, and lower salaries as compared to other programs (resulting in an inability to get better asst coaches when needed) are, in my opinion, some of the top issues that have held CU back and hampered improvement. And I'd rank this above facility improvements.
Click to expand...

We definitely have stepped up the assistant coaching pay with the new staff. Marshall is making $300K. If you look at staffs across the PAC-12, he is one of the more highly compensated OL coaches in the conference. It is time for him to deliver, both on the field and in recruiting.

bigbang2 said:
The staff took
Mustoe, Nembot, Cotner, Asiata, Lewis in 2011 that about 5 OL
This cycle they took 3 Kelly, Kough, Irwin,

The DL and DB was more important, apart from Pericak, the team has nothing on the DL front. And we all saw how USC torched our secondary last year. The team has a lot of holes, OL is not the biggest of needs right now.
Click to expand...

Obviously DL and DB were very important, but OL is most certainly a big need going forward. Just look at what happened this year when Jack Harris went down. We had no one behind him. No one. Obviously losing a starting OT for most of a season will hurt any team, but good teams at least have competent players that can step in and be adequate. We were nowhere near adequate at RT after Harris went down.

We have not had a good OL in years. That has to change at some point and it starts on the recruiting trail with landing good players and building quality depth (something we have lacked for years).
 
Football is a pretty simple game. Everything starts up front. The line of scrimmage, both offensively and defensively, is where you win games. I'm all for getting running backs, WRs, TEs, DBs, etc. But we won't do very well if we can't recruit both talent and deph on the OL. It's essential. We've done pretty well recruiting in every other area, but we're getting absolutely schooled on the OL.
 
Creatini said:
USC torched everyone's secondary.
Click to expand...
I think it would be better to say virtually everyone torched our secondary last year. I know our DB roster is young this year but I think we are going to massively improve this year, and I have faith in GB. But we are in an OL thread...
 
OL is always a high priority. I would like to see at least four OL taken every year. Two isn't going to cut it. No matter what the circumstances are.

I would like to see at least one JUCO OL out of this class. Especially if we miss out on our top prospects.
 
Losing Chris Fox doesn't signify big trouble. Chris Fox is a power full line man but there are some technique issues, and his wing span may force him to play Guard. He is not all that, he played against smaller guys in HS, and looked like a man among infants,that will not be the case in College.
 
Find it a bit interesting that none of these in state guys are going to Pac 12 schools. All of them seem to be heading to the Big 10 or the SEC. Not sure if the pass happy reputation of the Pac 12 is having a chilling effect as well. Obviously if we're getting the kind of recruiting we expect, we can overcome that as well, but just an observation.
 
VamosBuffaloes said:
OL is always a high priority. I would like to see at least four OL taken every year. Two isn't going to cut it. No matter what the circumstances are.

I would like to see at least one JUCO OL out of this class. Especially if we miss out on our top prospects.
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We took 5 last year

4 this year (Caldwell, Irwin, Kelly, Kough), Topou and Kofovalu can also play OL, that number can even go up if there are position changes.
 
bigbang2 said:
We took 5 last year

4 this year (Caldwell, Irwin, Kelly, Kough), Topou and Kofovalu can also play OL, that number can even go up if there are position changes.
Click to expand...

Please stop counting walk-ons to fill out depth charts.

And CVille's point above still stands: it is not just about numbers, but getting the best players at each position. Just filling out a depth chart is not good enough.
 
Boulder Buff said:
Please stop counting walk-ons to fill out depth charts.

And CVille's point above still stands: it is not just about numbers, but getting the best players at each position. Just filling out a depth chart is not good enough.
Click to expand...


OL recruiting is probably the most difficult position for scouts to rank coming out of HS. Most of the guys are still growing or not playing against comparable competition, so many examples of how the scouts have missed on OL or DL coming out of HS. I watch film on Cotner, Kough and Irwin, Kelly and they look good to me, they will probably add another 30-40 pounds on average to there frames,and get good coaching better coaching at the College level, so i don't get how people panic because we lose out on a HS OL from Colorado.
 
bigbang2 said:
OL recruiting is probably the most difficult position for scouts to rank coming out of HS. Most of the guys are still growing or not playing against comparable competition, so many examples of how the scouts have missed on OL or DL coming out of HS. I watch film on Cotner, Kough and Irwin, Kelly and they look good to me, they will probably add another 30-40 pounds on average to there frames,and get good coaching better coaching at the College level, so i don't get how people panic because we lose out on a HS OL from Colorado.
Click to expand...

No.
 
bigbang2 said:
OL recruiting is probably the most difficult position for scouts to rank coming out of HS. Most of the guys are still growing or not playing against comparable competition, so many examples of how the scouts have missed on OL or DL coming out of HS. I watch film on Cotner, Kough and Irwin, Kelly and they look good to me, they will probably add another 30-40 pounds on average to there frames,and get good coaching better coaching at the College level, so i don't get how people panic because we lose out on a HS OL from Colorado.
Click to expand...

It is amazing/convenient how you really like all the OL we end up with and the guys we lose out on are all overrated.

I know OL prospects are difficult to project. That does not change the fact that we need to be doing better in OL recruiting. The staff is losing out on guys they are offering early. We are not only missing on kids out of Colorado, but elsewhere as well. The 2012 class had an OL haul out west we might not see for a long time. We struck out.

Max Tuerk, Colby Cyburt, Jordan Roos, Steven Moore, Shane Brostek, Jordan Williams, Garrett Weinreich... any of those guys ring a bell? All of them either visited Boulder or had us in their top group at one time or another. All of them are in prime recruiting grounds for us (CA, TX, HI). None of them picked the Buffs.
 
Boulder Buff said:
It is amazing/convenient how you really like all the OL we end up with and the guys we lose out on are all overrated.

I know OL prospects are difficult to project. That does not change the fact that we need to be doing better in OL recruiting. The staff is losing out on guys they are offering early. We are not only missing on kids out of Colorado, but elsewhere as well. The 2012 class had an OL haul out west we might not see for a long time. We struck out.

Max Tuerk, Colby Cyburt, Jordan Roos, Steven Moore, Shane Brostek, Jordan Williams, Garrett Weinreich... any of those guys ring a bell? All of them either visited Boulder or had us in their top group at one time or another. All of them are in prime recruiting grounds for us (CA, TX, HI). None of them picked the Buffs.
Click to expand...


I agree we need to do better, but don't agree that we have a big problem in OL recruiting.
 
Boulder Buff said:
It is amazing/convenient how you really like all the OL we end up with and the guys we lose out on are all overrated.

I know OL prospects are difficult to project. That does not change the fact that we need to be doing better in OL recruiting. The staff is losing out on guys they are offering early. We are not only missing on kids out of Colorado, but elsewhere as well. The 2012 class had an OL haul out west we might not see for a long time. We struck out.

Max Tuerk, Colby Cyburt, Jordan Roos, Steven Moore, Shane Brostek, Jordan Williams, Garrett Weinreich... any of those guys ring a bell? All of them either visited Boulder or had us in their top group at one time or another. All of them are in prime recruiting grounds for us (CA, TX, HI). None of them picked the Buffs.
Click to expand...

BB you highlight a glaring issue with last years class. While I am happy with a couple of the OL prospects we got I don't see a bellcow. I don't see the guy who you look at and say 3-year starter, that's where we run the ball on third and 1. Virtually every other position that we recruited last year we got guys that other PAC 12 teams wanted and were dissapointed to lose to us, who on the OL fits that description.

You can talk all you want about finding under the radar guys, developing hidden potential, the guys for "our system", Dan Hawkins would be glad to agree with you all day long.

I am not in a panic. I think we have some talent and the situation isn't desperate. At the same time we need this year to get some (plural) standout guys. As much as you want to talk about QBs and RBs and WRs, a team only goes as far as it's OL carries it and so far our recruiting at OL hasn't matched our hopes or ambitions. If that doesn't change then someone needs to be changed so it does.
 
I think it is a little early to panic...The ink is hardly dry on last years class. Fox going anywhere but Michigan was a long shot and was well known.
 
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