OL recruiting - a big problem

[J.R. Ewing]

^^This^^

As one of the older members of this board I remember losing to Drake, I remember a drunk Chuck Fairbanks spending more time decorating his office than he did recruiting. I also remember the program building into a true national power. High school kids all over the country were wearing buffs gear, the coaches were turning down kids who would be considered recruiting coups now.

I don't expect this program to become a perenial top 10 program again (but don't rule it out because it could happen again.) but I do expect this program to be a perenial top 25 program that has a real shot at earning BCS level bowl games.

Hawkins tore this program down and ran over it with a bulldozer. The level of team that Embree inherited last year was a joke. We weren't even ready to compete in the MWC much less the PAC 12. At virtually every position on the field we had a talent deficit, a size deficit, a speed deficit, and on top of that we had a major attitude deficit.

I am overall happy with Embree and his staff and what they have accomplished in a bit over a year. The first recruiting class, put together in just a few weeks was a start toward bringing our talent level back to that we will be facing on the field. Over the course of the year they managed to start to overcome the loser mentality that had permiated the team. We had a strong finish to the season including, finally, a road win and got that monkey at least climing down if not off our backs. This years class consisted off virtually all players who other AQ level schools wanted, including some size and speed and skills that we were severely lacking.

That all said, a start doesn't mean you are there yet. To reach the point we want to be we have to have some better results on the field. We have to win some games to show people we are improving and that this is an up and coming program. We have to be more competitive in the games we lose, last year we were saved major embarrasment only by a couple of coaches showing some class and calling off the dogs very early against us.

Most importantly recruiting wise we have to maintain the quality on the lower end of the class but bring in more top quality guys on the top end of the class, the 4*/5* type guys who most often become your difference makers. We also have to show that we can much more effectively recruit our own state, especially on the O-Line. This doesn't mean that we have to get every guy but we have to start consistently getting most of the top ones. Do this and we will continue to grow as a program and big bowl games will be in our future, fail and we become at best a middle of the road ho-hum program that doesn't meet it's potential.

+1

 

[dply]

Disclaimer: Lineman son wants to be a professional diver and marine biologist - no matter how hard I try - he may end up at Hawaii. Any suggestions for shaping? And if the "dual threats" go against genetics and make it - no doubt they will be Buffs no matter where we live.

I wanted to be a marine biologist at one time too. I even went to Hawaii with my high school for it. I think that is a phase like the firefighter phase.

 

[sackman]

I want to seriously know what great benefit there is in panicking??? So some posters who love to dwell on the negative can start ripping on our coaching staff and with a full-blown panic others will feed the frenzy?

Two weeks after the signing of a solid recruiting class we are suppose to officially have an All-Buffs "panic"!!!

Sorry, but there are a lot of positives going on with this program and I recommend fans enjoy the positives for awhile - there will always be negatives somewhere.

I never claimed there was a benefit to panicing. However, now that you mention it, if enough people do panic, it might send a signal to the folks at the Dal Ward that we're noticing a very disturbing trend.

I'm hitting the panic button on OL recruiting. I'm fine pretty much everywhere else, but it seems to me that we're doing a lot of rationalizing when it comes to the guys we're losing. A solid rationalization and $.25 will get you a cup of coffee at 7-11. It won't win many football games. Players do that.

 

[Creebuzz]

I never claimed there was a benefit to panicing. However, now that you mention it, if enough people do panic, it might send a signal to the folks at the Dal Ward that we're noticing a very disturbing trend.

I'm hitting the panic button on OL recruiting. I'm fine pretty much everywhere else, but it seems to me that we're doing a lot of rationalizing when it comes to the guys we're losing. A solid rationalization and $.25 will get you a cup of coffee at 7-11. It won't win many football games. Players do that.

I will be pretty darn worried if we don't have a couple of solid O linemen in the fold by the end of October. I don't know what it is, but the big guys up front seem to always commit early. We need to lock in some studs from CA or TX.

 

[Buffnik]

I want to point out that our OL recruiting misses were not limited to in-state recruiting. In fact, only 2 of our main targets (Thurston and Callahan) were in-state prospects. Plus Fox for 2013. Focusing on CO recruiting misses the target a bit. We missed on about a dozen prospects in California and Texas that we went at hard last cycle. It is absolutely essential that we improve.

As mentioned previously, the best way to turn this around is to run the ball well this year.

 

[dply]

I want to point out that our OL recruiting misses were not limited to in-state recruiting. In fact, only 2 of our main targets (Thurston and Callahan) were in-state prospects. Plus Fox for 2013. Focusing on CO recruiting misses the target a bit. We missed on about a dozen prospects in California and Texas that we went at hard last cycle. It is absolutely essential that we improve.

As mentioned previously, the best way to turn this around is to run the ball well this year.

:nod:

I also think we need to do a better job selling the Pro-style offense. Linemen love to run block.

 

[Darth Snow]

:nod:

I also think we need to do a better job selling the Pro-style offense. Linemen love to run block.

Last year, we had the worst O and OL in the league. The coaches really had nothing to sell to OL recruits from the body of work on the field. Until that changes, it is gonna be ROUGH.

 

[dply]

Last year, we had the worst O and OL in the league. The coaches really had nothing to sell to OL recruits from the body of work on the field. Until that changes, it is gonna be ROUGH.

I know what you're saying. It's that damn chicken and egg scenario that we are all suffering through right now.

One of my best friends played for New Mexico State and told me how much he hated spread pass protecting. He said it gives the DL/LB the advantage because they know where they are going and you have to basically wait and let them come to you. When run blocking you know exactly what you are going to do before the ball is snapped. It doesn't really matter how the defense lines up.

If we start showing how dominate we can be in the running game I think you'll see recruits busting down the door to sign with us.

 

[DBT]

:nod:

I also think we need to do a better job selling the Pro-style offense. Linemen love to run block.

You need to email Embree and EB and tell them to get on that.

 

[dply]

You need to email Embree and EB and tell them to get on that.

They've never responded to my other emails with cute kitties. Why would they read this one?

 

[Duff Man]

It all comes back to Steve Marshall as the OL coach. I think it is fair to say he was a hire many people questioned and he has done very little to win over the fanbase since his hire.

 

[lawdogg]

It all comes back to Steve Marshall as the OL coach. I think it is fair to say he was a hire many people questioned and he has done very little to win over the fanbase since his hire.

Cannot argue with this. This recruiting cycle and the coming season will be big for Marshall. He has the opportunity to really silence some of his critics, or provide more ammunition.

 

[dply]

Cannot argue with this. This recruiting cycle and the coming season will be big for Marshall. He has the opportunity to really silence some of his critics, or provide more ammunition.

It would be great if he has a Greg Brown type recruiting class.

 

[MtnBuff]

It would be great if he has a Greg Brown type recruiting class.

Great thing about the game of football, all you have to do to shut everybody up is show some results.

If Marshall doesn't want the finger pointed his direction he just has to show that he can close some quality recruits, until then he is fair game for criticism.

 

[dply]

Great thing about the game of football, all you have to do to shut everybody up is show some results.

If Marshall doesn't want the finger pointed his direction he just has to show that he can close some quality recruits, until then he is fair game for criticism.

I totally agree. Especially after the Cal fan's comments.

 

[Darth Snow]

ripped from rward at rivals... sheds some light on the instate stuff:

over other schools IMO.

% of people born in the United States that live in a state that were not born in that state (top 10):
Nevada 69.4%
Alaska 57.1%
Wyoming 57.0%
District of Columbia 56.0%
Arizona 55.9%
Florida 54.6%
New Hampshire 54.4%
Colorado 52.1%
Delaware 49.9%
Idaho 49.8%

top tates with the highest % of people 25+ with bchelor degrees or higher:
District of Columbia 49.20%
Massachusetts 38.30%
Colorado 35.9%
Maryland 35.70%
Connecticut 35.20%
New Jersey 34.60%
Virginia 33.80%
Vermont 33.30%
New Hampshire 32.90%
New York 32.10%

IMO the combination of out of state residents and that so many have degrees means that most have allegences to out of state schools where they got there degree. The pass these allgences to they kids.

Now add in that the University is not exactly as welcoming to instate student that do not play football as other BCS schools also does not help in my opinion. Because it means less students the football recruits know that have associations with CU. The top 10 BCS football playing schools in % of out of state frist year students:
University of Iowa: 48%
University of Colorado - Boulder: 47% (up 6% since 2006)
Auburn University (Alabama): 43%
University of Oregon: 40%
University of Arizona: 38%
University of South Carolina: 38%
Indiana University - Bloomington: 37%
University of Alabama: 37%
University of Arkansas: 36%
University of Wisconsin - Madison: 36%

CU is the only BCS school located in a state listed in the top 10 in both the first two list at the top.

 

[dply]

ripped from rward at rivals... sheds some light on the instate stuff:

And the reason we are more welcoming to out of state students is because we need the money they bring since the state doesn't give us crap. Our goal is to be around 45% each year.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Who doesn't want O-Line recruiting to get better? If you are implying that our current coaching staff doesn't want to get better players, especially in areas of need like the O-Line, then you are not very smart. Embree came out publicly and addressed the issue. Yes, the O-Line recruiting this cycle was not good. We need to improve it moving forward. End of story. That's not controversial.

Instead of bitching, we need to figure out solutions. How do we make this situation better?

Well, we need to make some in-roads to schools that have really good offensive lines. We need to win some games. We need to run the g-d rock. Let's get after it. If the coaches don't succeed here, their system won't succeed. Having a mauling O-Line is an imperative. We all agree on that.

 

[Quattro]

fify

 

[somebody]

Who doesn't want O-Line recruiting to get better? If you are implying that our current coaching staff doesn't want to get better players, especially in areas of need like the O-Line, then you are not very smart. Embree came out publicly and addressed the issue. Yes, the O-Line recruiting this cycle was not good. We need to improve it moving forward. End of story. That's not controversial.

Instead of bitching, we need to figure out solutions. How do we make this situation better?

Well, we need to make some in-roads to schools that have really good offensive lines. We need to win some games. We need to run the g-d rock. Let's get after it. If the coaches don't succeed here, their system won't succeed. Having a mauling O-Line is an imperative. We all agree on that.

So you're saying the coaching staff isn't smart enough to figure this out? I find this whole post incredibly funny.

 

[buffalocu81]

Not to be a dick, but this is not about missing out on one kid. It's about missing out on five kids while not getting any in-state guys. Not one. If that's not a trend, then I don't know what a trend is. We're not just missing out on a kid here or there - we're missing out on all of them.

My concern exactly! There is a 2014 recruit in Windsor called Trenton Noller. Some believe he will be the highest ranked player in this states recruiting class, certainly the top OL. He has heard from Wisconsin, Ohio St. and Michigan. Strangely he has received little notice from CU. When you start looking at last years class, the most recent signing of Fox and the situation with a future recruit, you don't wonder if there is a trend. My concern is with Marshall who recruits the position and/or Brookhart who recruits the region. But JE needs to start asking the question and demanding answers.

 

[buffalocu81]

I never claimed there was a benefit to panicing. However, now that you mention it, if enough people do panic, it might send a signal to the folks at the Dal Ward that we're noticing a very disturbing trend.

I'm hitting the panic button on OL recruiting. I'm fine pretty much everywhere else, but it seems to me that we're doing a lot of rationalizing when it comes to the guys we're losing. A solid rationalization and $.25 will get you a cup of coffee at 7-11. It won't win many football games. Players do that.

.

Probably closer to $1.29 but your point is well taken and I agree with you 100%.

 

[buffalocu81]

I am going to list the OOS state prospects (again) that we failed to close on in the 2012 class:

-Max Tuerk
-Zach Hemmila
-Nick Davidson
-Colby Cyburt
-Walker Williams
-Travis Averill
-Garrett Weinreich
-Stephon McCray
-Shane Brostek
-Steven Moore
-Jordan Williams
-Jordan Roos

All of these players either visited Boulder (unofficial or official) or listed us in their "favorites" group at one time or another. Most of them reside in states we want to be landing players from, particularly California and Texas. Some in the above list were always longshots with several offers and elite ratings. However, most on that list were rated solid 3* players by the services and had a handful of BCS offers.

But yes, it is simply an overreaction to Fox committing to Michigan.

I agree 100%. I would not be disturbed by the loss of Fox, Kozan, Callahan, Thurston or O'Connor if we were signing some of the players on your list. But the fact is WE DID NOT. We signed a solid prospect in Irwin, re-recruited a solid prospect in Kelley and signed a project in Keough. The star from the previous year, Asiata, has already left the program, Nemboldt remains a project as does Mustoe. In fact our best OL recruiting was under Talkins.

Nobody is panicking but we are asking questions and hopefully JE is also asking questions. Is the problem with the position coach (Marshall) or the coach responsible for the area (Brookhart)? I am not sure. But I would shake up some of the recruiting assignments with regards to what areas cewrtain cpaches are respponsible for recruiting.

 

[The Guest]

Who doesn't want O-Line recruiting to get better? If you are implying that our current coaching staff doesn't want to get better players, especially in areas of need like the O-Line, then you are not very smart. Embree came out publicly and addressed the issue. Yes, the O-Line recruiting this cycle was not good. We need to improve it moving forward. End of story. That's not controversial.

Instead of bitching, we need to figure out solutions. How do we make this situation better?

Well, we need to make some in-roads to schools that have really good offensive lines. We need to win some games. We need to run the g-d rock. Let's get after it. If the coaches don't succeed here, their system won't succeed. Having a mauling O-Line is an imperative. We all agree on that.

Dude.

Few times in my brief Allbuffs career have I been rendered speechless. Okay, technically never. However, you just came close.

 

[Ruckus]

I forgot that sports threads can be entertaining. I still haven't found a reliable poster who reads (or at least skims) most threads to PM me a link to the ones I would probably find interesting.

If anyone wants to do that, I offer up free rep with little ****ed up tidbits of strange advice in the comments.

 

[manhattanbuff]

So you're saying the coaching staff isn't smart enough to figure this out? I find this whole post incredibly funny.

????

I didn't say anything about the coaches not being smart enough to figure anything. I just think it's funny when folks get on message boards complaining about how bad something is without thinking of solutions.

The current coaching staff has made a "professional style of offense" their philosophy. EB described that as running the ball to advance possessions and throwing to score. EB has also said that the offenses in college that he'd like to emulate are Stanford and Wisconsin. In other words, the coaches are not "in" with a finesse offensive philosophy. If the offensive line recruiting isn't very good, then they're going to be out sooner rather than later. Everyone wants to get better, especially the men hired to make our football team better.

 

[somebody]

????

I didn't say anything about the coaches not being smart enough to figure anything. I just think it's funny when folks get on message boards complaining about how bad something is without thinking of solutions.

The current coaching staff has made a "professional style of offense" their philosophy. EB described that as running the ball to advance possessions and throwing to score. EB has also said that the offenses in college that he'd like to emulate are Stanford and Wisconsin. In other words, the coaches are not "in" with a finesse offensive philosophy. If the offensive line recruiting isn't very good, then they're going to be out sooner rather than later. Everyone wants to get better, especially the men hired to make our football team better.

:lol:

Who doesn't want O-Line recruiting to get better? If you are implying that our current coaching staff doesn't want to get better players, especially in areas of need like the O-Line, then you are not very smart.

This has to be one of the dumbest statements I have read on this board. Who isn't very smart? You really need to find a better way to introduce and justify the stupidity that follows.

Embree came out publicly and addressed the issue. Yes, the O-Line recruiting this cycle was not good. We need to improve it moving forward. End of story. That's not controversial.

Instead of bitching, we need to figure out solutions. How do we make this situation better?

/start bitching (I feel I need to be very explicit with you - here is where you tell the coaches what they should be doing)

Well, we need to make some in-roads to schools that have really good offensive lines. We need to win some games. We need to run the g-d rock. Let's get after it. If the coaches don't succeed here, their system won't succeed. Having a mauling O-Line is an imperative. We all agree on that.

/end bitching

 

[Junction]

This has to be one of the dumbest statements I have read on this board. Who isn't very smart? You really need to find a better way to introduce and justify the stupidity that follows.

I am in the process of compiling a list. I think you will find the results interesting.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Dear ZBuff,

You did not read my message very well. I wasn't bitching. I was initiating ideas about things that everyone, including the coaches for Colorado, agree we should do well to get better at recruiting better offensive line talent.

Here's some bitching for you.......

Many discussions of this matter or any other recruiting matter where we're currently deficient read like this:

"Man, don't you think it sucks that we lose out on good offensive line talent?"
"Yeah, it sucks."
"But, don't you know how much it really sucks?"
"Yeah, it definitely sucks."
"Man, even though it's his job, coach X really cannot recruit."
"Yeah, he sucks at recruiting and life in general. We need to fire him yesterday. Bohn should go too."
/end bitching

The rest of your post doesn't make an argument. Still waiting on a reason for why my opinion is a "stupid".......

 

[somebody]

MB, I give up, you're right, it was an awesome post! :lol: