Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by CsquaredCC, Jun 4, 2010.
The MWC should do exactly that and re-name itself "The Big 12".
Baylor and TCU might be a wild card in those plans. Those guys would pool together enough political might and force SMU and Houston on you.
(I couldn't resist. So long as CU is going to be pushed around by Texans, it's only fair that CSU should suffer, too!)
I don't give a rip what happens to the MWC. You put any of the "big 3" in a real conference and they are middle of the pack teams.
There is ZERO chance that Kansas winds up in a mid-tier conference.
With their basketball program they will go to a major conference, for sure.
Football is driving this train, not basketball.
Television sets are driving this train.
KU could go independent in basketball - they have the $$ and the TV sets around the country.
Which football dominates.
CBS paid $6 BILLION to get the NCAA basketball tournament in 2003. (That contract expires in 2013, btw)
I am sure the Big 10 would love to add KU basketball to their television lineup. I am sure the Pac 10 would love to add KU basketball to their upcoming television network. Certainly KU is the crown jewel should the Big 12 someday make its own television network.
Last season, KU basketball appeared on national television (CBS, ESPN, Fox Sports) in 20 of their 31 games.
Yes, march madness is unbelievably popular.
KU is an attractive basketball school. College football is second fiddle to only the NFL in this country. This is about football and getting as many eyes as possible to watch football. Basketball is secondary in this conversation.
KU also has a stench around it's AD right now. Did you see the interview with the KU AD the other day? Guy was petrified. He sees that KU could possibly be left out in the cold with regard to expansion.
If this Pac16 deal goes through...I forsee the Big 12 sending invites to the "competitors" in the MWC + BSU and possibly Houston which will allow them to maintain their BCS contract and be an immediate upgrade for the MWC teams and BSU...even though it will essentially be the MWC. The Big10 has to be looking at KU and thinking they were just positioned nicely....They get kNU, Mizz, and KU along with Rutgers and Syracuse/ND (ND prob won't move with all this shakeup as they look to be big winners staying independent with all the expansion). That gives the Big10 a solid football/basketball conference and beefs up the big10 network with the addition of fusker football and KU basketball...not to mention keeping the Mizz KU rivalry...
I probably need to amend my point. As it stands right now KU is on the outside looking in. they are the kid with the face pressed up the glass of the candy store while all the other kids are inside. One of those kids could get kicked out or decide to shop at another store, but for now KU is not being pursued as a first option. I have no doubt that they are the back up plan for either or both the Pac 10 and Big 10
KU is stuck in a strange place. They are one of the true powers in basketball, a nation program along with Duke, UNC, Kentucky, a couple of schools from the Big East and Big 10. As such they have tremendous name recognition and value in basketball. The problem for them is that their football program, a couple of decent years excepted is a perpetual cellar dweller in terms of wins and more importantly financial value. Nobody gets excited to see the Jayhawks play on TV, their home attendance is one of the lowest in the Big XII, they don't draw on the road.
If they were located in the urban east they would be a great fit fot the Big East or the ACC which are basketball driven conferences. Being in the midwest they are in a state with low and stagnant population and demographics.
I don't think anyone knows how this is all going to settle out but I think that the MWC along with the remnants of Big XII are going to try to form a conference to contend for recognition as a top level conference like the MWC desires right now. The nine MWC schools plus KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor would make a 13 team league. Add Houston, Rice, Boise and you have 16 in two divisions. If one of those teams doesn't join then you might pick up UTEP in its place with it's Texas identity and El Paso media market.
At the same time C-USA may want to target KU and KSU as well in a bid for power but I think they would go the direction of the MWC. Another twist to this may be teams reforming into an entirely new conference and seeing a couple of longtime teams left out due to lack of financial value. In this case Wyoming would have a lot to worry about and if Fresno and Nevada wanted in CSU might be left out in the cold. I would guess that there are a lot of nervous ADs at mid-major schools right now wondering how all this is going to filter down to them. Do they get a chance to step up into a league that has a shot at a BCS bid every year and some significant recognition with schools that are coming out of old BCS conferences or do they get left out in the cold to fall a level to a MAC or Sun Belt level resulting in further declining profile and more importantly revenues.
Well, I see your scenario, but from the other angle. This will spell the death of the MWC conference. The MWC member schools however, will benefit if we assume that the shell of the Big XII remains intact and invites the best schools from the MWC, C-USA and WAC.
KU to Conference USA!
Could end up something like this but in your western group you will have to make space for Fresno, Nevada, and probably Hawaii. In that case Wyo, CSU, Idaho, and NMS are all at risk of being left out in the cold. All four are low revenue, low budget programs and all should be very worried. Wyo and Idaho are the lowest attendance programs but Idaho is a matched set with Boise who is highly desirable and a lock to be in. NMS can be tied to NM, is a logical schedule partner for UTEP and is in a growing area of the sunbelt. This leaves CSU as very vulnerable. Wouldn't want to be the AD of any of these four schools right now.
There would definitely be a very strong conference located in the plains/southwest/rockies/pacific that could be carved out from the remaining teams. May not be a media force due to the specific local markets, but it would be a competitive force to be reckoned with. If the BCS continued, it would almost certainly have a seat at the table. If the BCS disbanded and everything was reliant on bowl tie-ins for the postseason, this conference would struggle in football as the 4 new megaconferences dominated the postseason exposure and money.
One thing that I never understood is why the smaller conferences have had such negativity toward the BCS system. It provided money and exposure like never before and has resulted in the teams doing better than ever before. Previous to the BCS, the Fiesta Bowl would have taken a 7-5 Notre Dame or Michigan over an 11-1 TCU. That all changed. MWC fans should be careful what they wish for in realignment.
I don't see any of the Big 3 leaving for a watered down Big 12. Boise State to the MWC is basically set in stone at this point and with it a provisional BCS bid in 2012 and 2013. The MWC has an establised conference network which each University has invested heavily in and a revenue sharing structure that has been fair and equitable. BYU, Utah , TCU, and Boise State are positioned exactly as they want to be right now. A 10 team conference with fewer mouths to feed and conference that is nearly gauranteed a BCS bid especially if the Big 12 is destroyed in this way. CSU would be in trouble were it not for it's proximity to the Denver market which as we have seen is a plus.
Ahh yes, but BYU did win a national title in the '80s. That'd be pretty tough to do under the current system.
That would be bad PR. The Big XII name, even if hacked to crap, stills carries 100x more weight than the MWC name. It's in Utah/BYU/TCU's best interest to separate themselves from the MWC name, because it conjures up "mid-major". If these schools receive a "promotion/call-up" to a bigger conference, they will be more readily accepted as big boys going forward.
Which leftover football powerhouses exactly? Kansas? KSU? Iowa State? Baylor? The Big 12 brand is Texas and Oklahoma. Once those two are gone - I don't think anyone will be confusing the Big 12 with anything other than a mid-major conference.
By squeaking past a 6-5 Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl. Good for exposure and reputation, but they didn't exactly rake in the bowl money.
The problem for the MWC is that outside of the confrence itself nobody thinks of them as anything at all. They aren't on ESPN, ABC, or CBS(network, CBS college doesn't count for much) They are those guys who are on that oddball channel late at night when you can't sleep for most of the country. Being Big XII carries weight outside of the Big XII just like being Big X or PAC 10 does even for those teams that have been traditional losers in those conferences.
This whole thing at this point is about what schools and conferences bring to the table and what they take away and despite some real success from the big 3 when it comes to prestige, brand awareness, and most importantly revenue potential the MWC schools better step up to the table or get left with scraps, likely some still will be left with scraps.
This isn't about fair, it's not about trying hard, it's not about getting what schools think they deserve, it is all about the money and if Utah, BYU, and especially TCU and Boise have a choice between moving up or being forced to move down the pecking order there will be no loyalty to the rest of the MWC schools. Given the opportunity same holds true for the rest of the schools but some are in positions where they can't be picky.
That would be true except for the fact we have a perfect example to the contrary where a conference loses its flagship schools....The Big East has never recovered from losing Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College - the same thing will happen to the Big 12.
And without Texas, OU, aTm, NU, etc. the Big XII will never be what it was considered one of the top two football conferences along with the SEC. Adding the top of the MWC without bringing along the bottom gives them and those MWC schools a shot at not being a premier conference but certainly closer than the MWC is now or what they would be without the moves.
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