Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by lvbuff, Sep 4, 2013.
Helluva a nice kid, mature beyond his years.
Nice to hear, I think most fans have no hate towards Embree, just the wrong choice at the wrong time, but a nice guy overall. He tried his best to do what he was capable of doing at the time.
+1 Embree the HC is a different topic than Embree the Buff. It didn't work out as HC. His exit was messy. Those are givens, but to me he is still a Buff and a great contributor to the program as a player and AC. It just didn't work out when he was the top guy...no shame in that, happens all the time.
I hate Embree
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Not sure if you are joking or not, but assuming you are not, I have to say I am kind of with you. He needs to come back into the fold and apologize. Not for his inept coaching, because I believe he was trying, but for his ridiculous exit. He tried his best to inflict damage on the institution he supposedly loves. Fortunately he came off as a raving lunatic. Apologies and support for the university would put me right back in his corner. Edit: Maybe he has already done this. If so, then you're in my good graces Jon.
I'm not joking. Everyone is so quick to forgive him... I am not. I didn't hate him because of his failure as a football coach, I hate him for his departure. Totally uncalled for, considering he is such a 'great buff'
I'll have to agree....the departure polarized & most likely hindered fund raising...done correctly taking the high road which was available would've served much better.
Agree with you 100%. He was once a very good player for the Buffs. He was a very good position coach for the Buffs. He was incompetent as the Buffs' head coach. And he acted like a petulant brat when he got fired. Jon Embree died in about 2002 as far as I'm concerned.
Wow, you guys are harsh. I did not like what Embree said on his way out, but I can understand the bitterness and anger getting fired from his dream job. In my view, MacCartney is actually more culpable since he was the one driving the bus on the race issue. Given his years of experience, he was more culpable and should have known better.
Let's not forget the very odd Buff Stampede or whatever they called it last year at the 1st bank center. I love the fact that CU has history, but the first Coach Mac seemed incapable of letting the program move on (and he gets paid whenever convincing the AD to let him speak).
It was an emotional ordeal, Embree said a few things that hopefully he would rethink, but no need to ask for an apology. Let's look forward.
I guess I blame Embree a little less as well, but where he could have diffused the situation, he chose not to. I think Embree's reaction and comments were influenced by the toxic atmosphere around the decision(McCartney especially), and the vitriol directed at Bohn. Not only was Embree upset, but a lot of people around him felt just as wronged and had absolute hatred for Bohn. I mean, we had Klatt basically shouting at Bohn in the presser. The whole thing was just such a damn mess.
I think both of those guys need to apologize before being welcomed back into the fold. The change in leadership at the AD position might might make that apology easier.
CU suffered a lot of negative publicity due to Embree's remarks. F()ck him
Even the more-despised DH went out with class. WB deserves no sympathy or forgiveness until he apologizes for wrongly playing the race card.
As for being "well-liked', being a HC is like being a parent, you're not supposed to be their friend, you have too many tough, unpopular calls to make, for which you'll be accused of being "unfair", even though you're not. You're supposed to be their leader.
You can be friends once the players leave the program.
Well, the whole thing stunk. MacCartney's behavior stung the most. He was out and out calling the Ad and University as a whole, racist. I am, and have been, a big MacCartney fan, but he was out of control, until BCS made him cry. Embree went along with it, I believe, partially because he felt MacCartney could get him his job back. The worst thing I remember from Embree was his response to the question "would he have still been the coach if he were white?" He said "Probably". MacCartney on the other hand was screaming for pitchforks and torches outside the Dal Ward to re-hire Embree and fire Bohn. He ruined his legacy.
I think I'm quick to move on because I believe that Embree and McCartney were coming from a good place - passion for the CU football program and the people who made it great in the post-Fairbanks era. Did I like how Embree went out? No. Of course not. But I also understand that Embree and McCartney are emotional men who were caught in a whirlwind moment.
They've both done enough for this program and community to give them the benefit of moving on, imho.
How is Bill McCartney referring to the generic 'great black athlete' not racist?
Where was that passion when WB left for UCLA? Or sent his sons to play for anybody but CU?
The UCLA move was strike one, his kids, steerike two and the race card? Yerrrrrrrr OUT!
I am still anti Embree, but why that would come up in a conversation with one of his former players is beyond me. There is nothing good to come of creating a New Guys vs Old Guys situation with the players who were there. It's a new era. Jon brought in some good players and our new staff will get the most of them.
I would be quick to forgive if he extended the olive branch. He's the one that dealt the last blow, it is his responsibility to:
1) recognize his failure for what it was instead of letting your pride get the best of you
2) apologize for pulling the race card
One segment on Al's radio show expressing those points, and I would be willing to forgive and forget. He can even leave out the nonsense he was spewing about how personally buying water bottles and a new desk demonstrated the university's lack of commitment to winning, regardless of how inane and childish those points were.
Lol exactly. "Hey that coach that recruited you here and mentored you for 2 years, yeah he sucks."
Except there's no crying in baseball.
Embo is a great guy, I met him once. His problem was inexperience and to make matters worse he didn't have experienced coordinatiors to help him out. He also had to deal with one of the toughest schedule in the country with a lot of freshmen. It was an uphill battle. Hopefully he has learn't from the first go around as a coach. I still think he will be an excellent head coach.
His number one, UNO, first and biggest mistake was when he hired his Coordinators. It was his first gig and he should have gotten a proven coordinators to help him out. He failed the moment he hired EB.
Coordinators? He hired two ex-head coachs, one ex-interim HC and had Mac I waiting in the wings to provide assistance.
Who needs mere coordinators when you've got the real deals on your staff?
His problem was his arrogant attitude in believing he "din't need no stinkin' advice from ex-HCs! He could do it hisself!!!
His first priority should have been to sit down with that brain-trust and ask them the mistakes they each made as HCs. The ask them how to bring the team together and then set up a plan for getting a diverse set of coachs to work together as a college football coaching staff, using the talent available and the current concepts of offense and defense in the college game.
Instead, asst. coachs did what they damned well pleased, often arguing among themselves about what to do. Then, WB tried to be "friends" with his players instead of HC,( a fatal error itself )and played favorites.
Finally you could tell by looking at WB, he had little joy in doing his job. He appeared sullen, rarely smiled, never showed a positive or optimistic side to the tasks at hand and coached his players by screaming at them, not teaching them, just as any pro coach would do! He would never admit a mistake or move off a position he took: See, Webb, Jordan.
Then when the most disorganized FB team of all time in Boulder failed to win at home and he got fired , he blamed everybody else and called it racist.
He may learn, but what AD is going to take that chance?
You are just a hater!
It's less offensive if you end it with an 'a' instead of an 'er'.
Jon Embree sucked as CU's HC. He was terrible and deserved to be fired. With that said, it is not mutually exclusive to say that his hiring or firing weren't related to race. Many people (myself included) believed that him being a black man who went to school in Boulder would assist other young black men fit into the town/CU community. He didn't get the job done on the field so he was fired. Would he have gotten more time if he were white? Who knows, but the answer is probably yes. From your coded language about "the race card" or whatever other privileged expression, it's pretty clear that none of you have had to deal with the persistent, subtle racism that pervades the CU campus. You probably think that CU is not racist because many folks in the university community are politically liberal. The only problem is that these same people are particularly conservative in their interpersonal dealings. You probably think that the business of college football coaching isn't racist. Again you would be wrong. The numbers bear themselves out. Bad white coaches get more time and opportunity than bad black coaches. There's great difficulty for qualified black coaches to get jobs (ask Charlie Strong if you want to know about this subject). His frustration surrounding that reality and the fact that he was a failure on the field led Embo to lash out. He was disappointed in himself and the school he loves. It was sad because he was distressed; but, he was telling us his truth. Yet, all you folks see is him "playing the race card". I guess since he was terrible that it's simply not possible that race doesn't play a role in breaking ties in deciding who stays and who goes, right?
Therein lies the answer to your own criticism. Your responses demonstrate the exact sort of racism that he experienced. It is not the same kind from the Jim Crow era. It is not the burning cross or the fire bombed church. It is the kind of racism where folks use dismissive language to denigrate a legitimate concern about race. You can hate Jon Embree or whatever because you feel like he did CU a disservice. Like all of our families, those within our families are the best at pointing out all of the ****ed up things we do to one another. He just happened to do so publicly. It was important because his experience is not atypical for black people in Boulder, nor is it atypical for black football coaches at the FBS level.
Jon Embree was not the right person to lead our program going forward. That doesn't mean that he was wrong in assessing the state of race in Boulder and in FBS head coaching.
I think JE got a lot of "support" in his ravings from his lunatic former coach, which in his mind gave him footing. Sure, he's responsible for his own actions and should have known better, but I think BM gets equal blame for stoking the situation.
JE was hired because of 1 thing and 1 thing only. He was cheap. CU was in a huge cash crunch from changing conferences, less than capacity crowds and non-existent licensing royalties due to sucking for 5 years. JE was under qualified, but jumped at his dream job and the low salary compared to other conference head coaches. CU needed someone to fill the position long enough for more money to become available for a better coach. If he worked out, it was the luckiest coaching hire in history. If not, a cheap place holder.
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