Exactly. People should remember that when Dr. Phil stumps for the FB team...it's not like the guy has shown any real commitment to a winning FB team IMO. The administration just about killed the program altogether.
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Recruiting really was bad under Hawkins...
- Thread starter BlackNGold
- Start date
+1. The admin needs to make up for it by showing its support for the football program. Start investing now.
KDBuff
Well-Known Member
Here's the issue as I see it. I've actually been meaning to start a thread with this, but I'm too lazy to look up the numbers. The biggest problem Hawkins had in my opinion, was not recruiting, but what happened with those recruits. If you look back at all the 4 and 5 star players Hawkins recruited, almost none of them have had a big impact on the field. I actually think the recruiting was pretty good for a 2-3 year stretch, but none of those guys ever worked out.
Off the top of my head:
Scott, Katoa, Givens, MTM, Simmons, Nuckols,
Even some of the guys still on the team haven't turned out the way some of us thought.
Off the top of my head:
Scott, Katoa, Givens, MTM, Simmons, Nuckols,
Even some of the guys still on the team haven't turned out the way some of us thought.
CU never fired Fairbanks. He left to go coach the New Jersey Generals of the USFL. He left AFTER NLOI day, but BEFORE Spring practices. Real swell guy. I don't think people fully appreciate the reclamation job Mac had on his hands.
I still can't put Hawkins at the level of Fairbanks. Fairbanks was pure football evil. Hawkins was merely a completely incompetent retard.
I still can't put Hawkins at the level of Fairbanks. Fairbanks was pure football evil. Hawkins was merely a completely incompetent retard.
Walter White
Member
This is a fantastic discussion.
These mid-majors like BSU, Utah and TCU can pull it off with lower rated talent. These coaches seem like geniuses, gurus and zen masters, able to create amazing results with players nobody wanted. They pile up lopsided wins in their mid-major conferences then actually do quite well against the “big boys” in bowl games and the occasional non conference game.
I am 100% convinced that these same schools would and will fall back to earth if they have to compete every week in a BCS conference. The law of averages will suck you back down. It’s a whole nuther ball game when you play a BCS school every week.
In a one-off situation these schools can play with the best of the BCS, especially if you have a lot of time to prepare for the game. They’re coming into these games riding a wave of confidence and execution proficiency. However, grinding it out week after week is an entirely different type of war. Look at Utah this year.
Bottom line, to consistently win above average in a BCS conference you have to have above average talent. There are always exceptions, but over time, there is a high correlation with your w/l standing and your recruiting ranking within the conference.
If you’re not winning recruiting battles against your peers then you won’t be beating your peers very often on the field.
Offers on a kid is a good measure. The “market” is fairly efficient. You can’t fight the law of averages for very long. Exceptions here and there, but over time it will catch up to you.
Walter White
Member
I also think that quality RB, WR and DB recruits are a dime a dozen. There are loads of high school guys who are fast and athletic. I think the rare commodity is finding athletic linemen on both sides of the ball. You’ve got lots of athletes and lots of big guys, but rarely both---far fewer 280-325 pound athletes. That’s the rare commodity, the difference maker.
It's both sides of the line and a QB who can quickly make the right read and deliver accurately on time. The QB is a total wild card. What makes a QB good can't be measured. It's in the kid and how he's coached up. I can say for sure that arm strength is way down on the list for college football, even though everyone rates it highly. Quick decision making and accuracy. That's it.
It's both sides of the line and a QB who can quickly make the right read and deliver accurately on time. The QB is a total wild card. What makes a QB good can't be measured. It's in the kid and how he's coached up. I can say for sure that arm strength is way down on the list for college football, even though everyone rates it highly. Quick decision making and accuracy. That's it.
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Except that we don't know what Bensen instructed DiStephano and Bohn to do. And Bensen is nothing but pure politician.
I brought that up merely because DiStpehano, who has been a longtime friend of the AD as faculty rep and as Boulder Chancellor, and Bohn genuinely seem interested in winning. But if the man at the top thinks differently, well, they don't have much choice.
Walter White
Member
Thank you. I'm also a chemist, not just a cook.
I don't know Dr. Phil. I don't know Benson, I have met Bohn. Fair or unfair, I think he is a politician too. I think he is a manager, not necessarily a winner. Administrators, everywhere he has been, seem to love the guy. He gets donors, fills the stadium, balances budgets, but his teams don't win. I give him credit for the P12 move, but it's not like it was his idea. The idea had been floating around since at least '94, and I think Larry Scott wanted CU, and that was probably the biggest reason it happened. JMO.
I am not privy to why D II was kept, but it was a catastrophically stupid decision, whoever made it. Athletics are the front porch of the University. Should it be that way? Probably not. However, it is, and anybody with a nickel's worth of sense would want to see a successful athletic program. At CU the flagship is FB and to keep a failure at the helm when EVERYBODY knew the guy was tanking in the worst way is to invite disaster....my only concern is that disaaster may have accepted the invitation. I sincerely hope not, but it is damn hard for me to believe the admin wants to see CU FB a powerhouse again after watching how D II was mishandled.
I am not privy to why D II was kept, but it was a catastrophically stupid decision, whoever made it. Athletics are the front porch of the University. Should it be that way? Probably not. However, it is, and anybody with a nickel's worth of sense would want to see a successful athletic program. At CU the flagship is FB and to keep a failure at the helm when EVERYBODY knew the guy was tanking in the worst way is to invite disaster....my only concern is that disaaster may have accepted the invitation. I sincerely hope not, but it is damn hard for me to believe the admin wants to see CU FB a powerhouse again after watching how D II was mishandled.
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Walter White
Member
The thought of extending Hawk at that point in time almost seems negligent. Why extend at that point? From a business perspective it makes no sense.
You bring up two things that are important.
One is that up until the last couple of classes Hawk always seemed to get a few high profile 4* or even 5* type guys but often the guys he got were available because other schools held off for various reasons. Katoa had known character issues, never saw the field for us, Givens was available because the nubs fired Callahan and again had some character issues which have come back to get him, MTM was a quality guy but already had bad knees which ended up keeping him off the field, Nuckols had academic problems and never played. You can go on and on with similar issues, looked great on signing day but didn't help when kickoff came around.
The other issue was that a lot of the talented guys we have kept on the roster never seemed to develop and improve. Is Miller better now than 4 years ago, did Scott develop, how about Kasa, Deehan, did they get better under the Hawk staff?
The combination of a lack of quality talent in quantity to actually be on the field plus a lack of talent development puts us where we are now.
Fairbanks was a carpetbagger. I think he came in with the idea that CU was going to be like OU, lots of loose cash floating around to influence the right kids to come to play, admit anyone, and no academic oversight. Win a lot of games and don't worry about how or how to pay for it.
As soon as he figured out that it wasn't going to be that way he completely checked out, collected his checks, and waited for his next move which was the USFL job. When Mac took over we were closer to UNC than NU as a team.
JRK
Member
That's probably becasue if you write anything negative on here, especially about recruiting, you get bitched at and subsequently PM'd the AllBuffs rules and regulations. Just look at the reaction in the "are we going to be able to get kids to sign" thread. A couple weeks ago I wrote a critical post about Embree that was fair and not over the top but it was deleted and no explanation was given.
Ralphandler1
Member
I am convinced after seeing Utah fail so far against good teams week in and week out that you can get those guys to play outta their minds once a year..... but cannot build a program like OU or Florida or Alabama with a squad of no ones...... I really wanna see Boise play big boys more than once a year and see if this hypothesis is right
Deleted member 807
Guest
Paging Syko. Syko please come to a white paging telephone.
This has been the biggest disappointment with the current team. Guys like Kasa, Deehan, Miller and others that were highly recruited, and highly rated, not only not getting better year after year, but their attitudes and leadership are so lacking.
I may have posted a not so enthusiastic view of simple jack's recruiting a time or two...:lol:
The white phone is for positive comments. Syko, please report to the RED courtesy phone.
Deleted member 807
Guest
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.
The red zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the white zone.
No, the white zone is for loading of passengers and there is no stopping in a RED zone.
The red zone has always been for loading and unloading of passengers. There's never stopping in a white zone.
Don't you tell me which zone is for loading, and which zone is for stopping!
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone **** again. There's just no stopping in a white zone.
Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.
It's really the only sensible thing to do, if its done safely. Therapeutically there's no danger involved.
somebody
Well-Known Member
Bruce Benson was at the Washington tailgate - does that count?
That's part of my point. He committed and got everyone excited, made our class look a lot better on paper but never contributed on the field because he never saw the field. Same kind of thing with Katoa, 5* kid in the rankings looked great on LOI day, never made a tackle.