Sh!t just got real with CU recruiting

[BoulderBorn]

It would be hard NOT to play for this guy.
MT plus RG plus the facilities plus being 5-7 as opposed to 1- 11 2-10 could be a springboard.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

Are academic admission requirements considered a self-imposed limitation? So I'm all in favor of throwing those out the window and start recruiting "SEC style".

I’ll bet RG has cleared the way to get anyone he wants.

 

[Bliff Cranch]

that's the beaten-down pragmatist talking, traumatized by all that has transpired.

we're gonna win. sure, the schedule is tough, but we're going to be tougher. time to get out our big time expectations and make sure they still fit after all these years.

Look, I’m a fan just like everyone else and I’d love nothing more than to see the program exceed expectations. But I’m not into blind faith. Mel Tucker would appear to have the requisite skills needed to move this program to places MM couldn’t but this is going to be a process, to use HCMT own words. Setting unrealistic expectations in his first year doesn’t do anyone any favors and fuels rhetoric none of us want.

 

[Buffnik]

Look, I’m a fan just like everyone else and I’d love nothing more than to see the program exceed expectations. But I’m not into blind faith. Mel Tucker would appear to have the requisite skills needed to move this program to places MM couldn’t but this is going to be a process, to use HCMT own words. Setting unrealistic expectations in his first year doesn’t do anyone any favors and fuels rhetoric none of us want.

I want a bowl game in 2019 followed by a Top 30 recruiting class. I think that's realistic while leaving a lot of room for upside.

 

[Bliff Cranch]

I want a bowl game in 2019 followed by a Top 30 recruiting class. I think that's realistic while leaving a lot of room for upside.

I agree. I’m already on record that the water mark for 2019 is six wins, maybe seven. I think eight to ten wins is wildly optimistic.

 

[Uncle Ken]

Look, I’m a fan just like everyone else and I’d love nothing more than to see the program exceed expectations. But I’m not into blind faith. Mel Tucker would appear to have the requisite skills needed to move this program to places MM couldn’t but this is going to be a process, to use HCMT own words. Setting unrealistic expectations in his first year doesn’t do anyone any favors and fuels rhetoric none of us want.

And after he singled you out to say nice things...

 

[higgyhoops12]

To add to this, nationally relevant recruiting continued into the Gary Barnett years. Rivals database goes back to 2002.

Here are our national recruiting ranks from 2002-2019:

2002 (GB) - #10
2003 (GB) - #19
2004 (GB) - #49 (scandal year class)
2005 (GB) - #43
2006 (GB/DH) - #48
2007 (DH) - #32
2008 (DH) - #15
2009 (DH) - #48
2010 (DH) - #66
2011 (DH/JE) - #74
2012 (JE) - #36
2013 (JE/MM) - #67
2014 (MM) - #63
2015 (MM) - #70
2016 (MM) - #65
2017 (MM) - #32
2018 (MM) - #51
2019 (MM) - #48 (final TBD under MT)

If you notice the trend, a coach usually gets a bump in his first 2 full classes after the transition class. Then you better damn well be winning because that new car smell is gone. If you don't get that early bump, you're not good at recruiting (MacIntyre). If you only get a 1-year bump, you've had 2 such bad seasons that recruits tuned you out early (Embree).

CU is a program that recruits in the 30s when a concerted effort is made or we've had a good season. CU is a program that recruits Top 20 or even Top 10 if recruiting is emphasized and the program is winning.

I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting your post, but comparing the excitement around hiring MacIntyre/ Embree to Tucker is like comparing apples to oranges.

MacIntyre was hired when the program was in the absolute dumps and his biggest achievements were at San Jose State and Duke.. Tucker on the other hand inherits a team that should be bowl eligible, has experience at the highest levels (NFL, Alabama, Georgia), and has endorsements from Tressel, Smart, and Saban. I think the excitement around Tucker's hiring is pretty self-explanatory. I expect a bowl game next year with top 20 recruiting classes for years to come.

 

[Buffnik]

I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting your post, but comparing the excitement around hiring MacIntyre/ Embree to Tucker is like comparing apples to oranges.

MacIntyre was hired when the program was in the absolute dumps and his biggest achievements were at San Jose State and Duke.. Tucker on the other hand inherits a team that should be bowl eligible, has experience at the highest levels (NFL, Alabama, Georgia), and has endorsements from Tressel, Smart, and Saban. I think the excitement around Tucker's hiring is pretty self-explanatory. I expect a bowl game next year with top 20 recruiting classes for years to come.

The state of the program at the time Macintyre was hired is irrelevant because I'm talking in relative terms. He didn't capitalize on his newness to get any kind of a bump.

Programs get recruiting bumps that coincide with the excitement of a new coach and him selling his vision to recruits. That bump lasts for his first 2 recruiting classes (not the transition class, which generally suffers), as a general rule. MacIntyre did not capitalize on that newness because he didn't hire recruiters or market himself/ his vision for the program. Hawkins did benefit (then his suck killed it). Embree did, then his petered out early and he got fired early. I expect Tucker to get that normal 2-year bump because he has a vision and he sells it. After those 2 years, recruiting results should be driven by whether the on-field performance is proving that the vision is working.

 

[Bufffan68]

With competent but largely average coaching in 2018 this team should’ve been bowl eligible. I expect 6-8 wins next year and a top 25 recruiting class. Perfectly reasonable IMO. Go Buffs!!!

 

[brettden]

I agree. I’m already on record that the water mark for 2019 is six wins, maybe seven. I think eight to ten wins is wildly optimistic.

If this team wins 6 games next year then the program has not moved much at all from where it is today. 5-7 the last two years, with a number of losses that I expect made RG furious (or whatever negative emotion he feels when his flagship team fails to meet expectation). The schedule next year has two teams that I view on paper as clearly superior - Stanford and Washington. Unless CMT goes all Frostie and liquidates half the team during the process, and assuming he has a recruiting class as good or better than CU has seen since Barnett (and I understand that is quite a step, but what I am hearing is the talent pool will be enhanced asap), then when I look at the 2019 schedule I see a CU team that could very well head to Oregon at 5-0. That is another big assumption, but I don't think that assumption requires any wild speculation or guesswork. The foundation is already there.

And if next year starts out like this year did, my expectation is the new coaching staff will be able to modify their game plans such that there is no "book" on how to shut down our offense for the final 7 games. And when I look at the last 7, I think having an expectation of going .500 then heading to Utah for win #8 or #9 isn't crazy speculation. I mean if we are thinking next season is a 6 win campaign then shoulda just saved the money and kept HCMM for one more season and given him a shot a 6. I understand turn around and culture change takes time. But if this coaching staff has an Oline coach that can keep a QB upright, and a group of recruiters that can add a class of that can contribute as much or more than the last two classes, then I think 8 wins is a real #. If that makes me a dope smoker, or cool aid drinker, whatever. That is just how I see it. 6 wins next year would be a disappointment.

 

[higgyhoops12]

The state of the program at the time Macintyre is irrelevant because I'm talking in relative terms. He didn't capitalize on his newness to get any kind of a bump.

Programs get recruiting bumps that coincide with the excitement of a new coach and him selling his vision to recruits. That bump lasts for his first 2 recruiting classes (not the transition class, which generally suffers), as a general rule. MacIntyre did not capitalize on that newness because he didn't hire recruiters or market himself/ his vision for the program. Hawkins did benefit (then his suck killed it). Embree did, then his petered out early and he got fired early. I expect Tucker to get that normal 2-year bump because he has a vision and he sells it. After those 2 years, recruiting results should be driven by whether the on-field performance is proving that the vision is working.

2011 (DH/JE) - #74
2012 (JE) - #36
2013 (JE/MM) - #67
2014 (MM) - #63
2015 (MM) - #70
2016 (MM) - #65

I'm not sure I agree. JE's 2012 class "bump" can easily be attributed to Yuri Wright's stupidity on Twitter haha. Without him I'd imagine the class would rank in the 50's-60's.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is I don't think every coach experiences a "2-year bump" solely due to a "newness" factor. Tucker should experience a bump considering his credentials, endorsements, and the current state of the program. He's a better, more qualified coach. It's much easier to persuade kids to buy into a vision of success at Colorado when you're coming from Georgia and the program is only a few years removed from playing in the PAC 12 Championship. Much more difficult when you're coming from San Jose State and you're taking over a program that couldn't beat Toledo, Hawai'i, Sac State, and Fresno State.

Edit: In sum, I think we can agree that Tucker has just a little bit more to pitch than JE or MM ever had haha.

 

[Buffnik]

2011 (DH/JE) - #74
2012 (JE) - #36
2013 (JE/MM) - #67
2014 (MM) - #63
2015 (MM) - #70
2016 (MM) - #65

I'm not sure I agree. JE's 2012 class "bump" can easily be attributed to Yuri Wright's stupidity on Twitter haha. Without him I'd imagine the class would rank in the 50's-60's.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is I don't think every coach experiences a "2-year bump" solely due to a "newness" factor. Tucker should experience a bump considering his credentials, endorsements, and the current state of the program. He's a better, more qualified coach. It's much easier to persuade kids to buy into a vision of success at Colorado when you're coming from Georgia and the program is only a few years removed from playing in the PAC 12 Championship. Much more difficult when you're coming from San Jose State and you're taking over a program that couldn't beat Toledo, Hawai'i, Sac State, and Fresno State.

Edit: In sum, I think we can agree that Tucker has just a little bit more to pitch than JE or MM ever had haha.

I'd say that if a coach doesn't have enough juice to get a P5 program that bump then he should have never been hired.

 

[White_Rabbit]

The state of the program at the time Macintyre is irrelevant because I'm talking in relative terms. He didn't capitalize on his newness to get any kind of a bump.

Programs get recruiting bumps that coincide with the excitement of a new coach and him selling his vision to recruits. That bump lasts for his first 2 recruiting classes (not the transition class, which generally suffers), as a general rule. MacIntyre did not capitalize on that newness because he didn't hire recruiters or market himself/ his vision for the program. Hawkins did benefit (then his suck killed it). Embree did, then his petered out early and he got fired early. I expect Tucker to get that normal 2-year bump because he has a vision and he sells it. After those 2 years, recruiting results should be driven by whether the on-field performance is proving that the vision is working.

MM had the new facilities to sell too, a super subpar effort on the recruiting front. Probably what doomed him IMO

 

[higgyhoops12]

I'd say that if a coach doesn't have enough juice to get a P5 program that bump then he should have never been hired.

I don't disagree with that. I think we can also agree that JE and MM never had that juice.

 

[FLounder]

Tucker had a Butkus winner last year and a Thorpe winner this year at Georgia. Not to mention what happened at bama. That’s some hardware.

 

[higgyhoops12]

MM had the new facilities to sell too, a super subpar effort on the recruiting front. Probably what doomed him IMO

The Champions Center wasn't completed until 2016?

 

[vinniew_11]

Do we have any idea how the current guys are liking Tucker?

 

[White_Rabbit]

The Champions Center wasn't completed until 2016?

it didn't need to be completed to sell the recruits on it. and if memory serves they started it in 2013 with plans, 2014 broke ground, 2015 some stuff was done, and then finally finished in 2016

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I'd say that if a coach doesn't have enough juice to get a P5 program that bump then he should have never been hired.

Not with those facilities.

 

[Buffnik]

Not with those facilities.

Hawkins signed a Top 20 class with those facilities.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Hawkins signed a Top 20 class with those facilities.

I was referring to the new facilities.There is nothing Colorado is missing except the will.

 

[buffaholic]

BrettMtn on the boards!

 

[Buffnik]

I was referring to the new facilities.There is nothing Colorado is missing except the will.

Absolutely. Commit to it and show that the vision is working by improving the on-field record. From there this thing quickly explodes.

 

[cu62nu36]

The admission standards are greatly exaggerated by CU fans.

Good. I look forward to some awesome recruiting.

 

[Duff Man]

If this team wins 6 games next year then the program has not moved much at all from where it is today. 5-7 the last two years, with a number of losses that I expect made RG furious (or whatever negative emotion he feels when his flagship team fails to meet expectation). The schedule next year has two teams that I view on paper as clearly superior - Stanford and Washington. Unless CMT goes all Frostie and liquidates half the team during the process, and assuming he has a recruiting class as good or better than CU has seen since Barnett (and I understand that is quite a step, but what I am hearing is the talent pool will be enhanced asap), then when I look at the 2019 schedule I see a CU team that could very well head to Oregon at 5-0. That is another big assumption, but I don't think that assumption requires any wild speculation or guesswork. The foundation is already there.

And if next year starts out like this year did, my expectation is the new coaching staff will be able to modify their game plans such that there is no "book" on how to shut down our offense for the final 7 games. And when I look at the last 7, I think having an expectation of going .500 then heading to Utah for win #8 or #9 isn't crazy speculation. I mean if we are thinking next season is a 6 win campaign then shoulda just saved the money and kept HCMM for one more season and given him a shot a 6. I understand turn around and culture change takes time. But if this coaching staff has an Oline coach that can keep a QB upright, and a group of recruiters that can add a class of that can contribute as much or more than the last two classes, then I think 8 wins is a real #. If that makes me a dope smoker, or cool aid drinker, whatever. That is just how I see it. 6 wins next year would be a disappointment.

Going into Utah for win #8 or #9 is not crazy speculation? Give me some of whatever you are smoking.

 

[Buffnik]

Just want to point out that Kirby Smart went 7-5 his first season at UGA, then won the bowl game. That was UGA's worst season in 6 years. The next season they played for a national championship.

I don't think we're 2 years away from being a national title contender. I also don't think we're looking at having our worst season in 6 years in 2019. Just saying that expectations should be modest as we win a bit more while the team shows that we're building to bigger things.

 

[brettden]

Going into Utah for win #8 or #9 is not crazy speculation? Give me some of whatever you are smoking.

 

[brettden]

And for the record (is anyone keeping track of the record here?) my opinion is the football team vastly underperformed the past two seasons. What happened against USC became the hallmark in a bad way; a team that could not get out of its own way, especially on offense. Infusion of talent, more competent coaching and I think that gets us to the middle of the conference. + or - of course. Playing like they did in the back half of this season and winning 6 would be a bad situation. Playing like 2016 and winning 6 of course would be much more positive.

Of course there are so many variables, but I'll stick with my opinion. And to continue with my speculation, I suspect there are many within the athletic department that believe 2019 can be a 8-9 win Holiday Bowl type season.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

8-10 wins in 2019 would be an immense achievement. It is not a favorable schedule. Much tougher than 2018.

Is be happy with 6-6 and a bowl game. Anything more with what we have (OL mainly) is gravy.

 

[CULifer]

Tucker has made some things clear:

- recruiting is something coaches will do every day
- there will be no self-imposed limitations
- we will go after the best talent and it's not rocket science to figure out who they are
- we will focus on CO, TX and CA plus LA while opening up GA and FL for some talent
- he wants championships and isn't going to be interested in a recruit who can't beat USC
- he is confident he can sell Colorado to any top prospect, get him to visit and close

It's just like when McCartney went and got Sal when no one thought it was possible. CU is going to get back to going after it again. Tucker is going to build to be able to match talent with anyone and win championships in Boulder.

Get on board and buckle your seat belts, folks.

And forget everything you thought you knew about what CU can and cannot achieve.

It's on!

Yes! This is a damn good ****ty preview, just with a different kind of sh!t. This is all very good sh!t right here.