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the part we want want to sweep under the rug

Liver,

Did you drink a large glass of stupid? CU has always been the Pac-XX's #1 choice even above UT it was in 1994 when we almost went last time and it was again last year. just look at the history man. Trying to get UT now is all about them playing defense for the super conference era, this is a begrudging move - a late night hook-up to break a dry-spell if you will; not a 20 year love affair like they have had with CU.

:lol:

let me present the facts in another way:

Pac 10 to CU in 1994: "We really love you CU, would you join our conference, assuming we can get the longhorns to join as well?"

Pac 10 to CU in 2010: "We really love you CU, would your join our conference, along with the longhorns and the other schools?"

Pac 10 to CU in 2010 (part 2): "We really love you CU, would you join our conference? Maybe it will convince the longhorns to join as well."

Pac 10 to CU in 2011: "We really love you CU. Thanks for joining our conference. We're thinking of trying to get the longhorns on board as well."

see a pattern there, in addition to the long term flirtation with CU?
 
Thanks MTN for saying what I have been thinking for a long time. It is hard for me to seperate my shut the door behind me provincialisim, my distaste for the former big 12, an my feeling that the 4 16 team conferences is not good.

I have heard over and over again from every B school grad how its all about the money and that it is inevitable. However I dont necessarily think that its gonna work because the non money reasons eventually impact the money reasons.

I for one am very excited to play in the PAC for a multitude of reasons. If we end up back in the b 12 (essentially) I am not so sure how interested I will be in that. I gave up watching pro ball a while ago because I just couldnt really care about it anymore. I know I am not the only one who may respond with disinterest to conferences that are largely unafiliated collections of teams. If this thing becomes too buisness like you are gonna alienate people who see through the bull**** and miss the rivalries and tradition. This is just my feeling and I most deffinately could be wrong.

If anyone wants an example. Watch the Kraft fight Hunger bowl this year and tell me that this "its all about the money" attitude is gonna be good for football
 
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even the 12PAC could use a private school doormat. C'mon, Snow, think outta the balloon here.
Sigh. 12pac already has a private school or 2. And they are not doormats. However, we do have a public school doormat. UCLA.
 
Thanks for providing those numbers, which will help illustrate my point even better...


OK, 90 divided by 10 (10 teams in the B12) is $9MM per team, plus $11MM = $20MM that UT is worth on it's own. Add in another $10MM because Texas brings a lot of TV sets all on it's own, and you're at $30MM. Divided 16 ways that's $1.875MM extra per year. Totally not worth it. Even if it were $2.5MM/Year. It's not worth it at an extra $10MM/Year. Remember, we're already pulling in $30MM/Year. What's an extra $2.5MM, especially with all the problems that would come from it?

Sacky, aren't you an accountant or something like that? Your argument lacks a bit of logic.

Taking $90M and dividing it by 10 to get $9M is the value Texas would receive (if in fact they shared equally).

But that has nothing to do with the VALUE of what they bring!!!! Your logic states that Iowa State and Texas are both worth $9M? They don't have equal value to the TV guys.....

Whatever the number is, something north of $200M for the Big12-2, the University of Texas represents a huge portion of that. Somewhere perhaps north of 25%.

I hate them too, and I don't think any amount of money is worth it. But there is no denying that the University of Texas by itself would add a boatload of cash to the Pac12 network's contract and sizeably increase the TV contracts. I seriously doubt Oklahoma, Okie State, etc can do much in terms of addition, rather than dilution.
 
This is getting stupid. People are talking about Rice? ****ing RICE? It is a food, not a football school.

I dunno. Those longhorns were pretty pissed off with their cable providers when they couldn't catch the Rice game on their Longhorn Network.

You gotta admit that a Rice exploratory committee would make for an amazing plot twist that would generate some good threads over at ShaggyBevo and BaylorFan.

Here's a little coaching, Snow. They say most 20 somethings don't have a good sense of plot development. So I'm not surprised you are so dismissive of this scheme. And I thought you budding lawyers were supposed to be ruthless. Pick up your game, junior.
 
I dunno. Those longhorns were pretty pissed off with their cable providers when they couldn't catch the Rice game on their Longhorn Network.

You gotta admit that a Rice exploratory committee would make for an amazing plot twist that would generate some good threads over at ShaggyBevo and BaylorFan.

Here's a little coaching, Snow. They say most 20 somethings don't have a good sense of plot development. So I'm not surprised you are so dismissive of this scheme. And I thought you budding lawyers were supposed to be ruthless. Pick up your game, junior.

Let me get this straight: You are hoping that you can start a Rice rumor on allbuffs, and bring it to shaggy to hopefully get a few bevo's all fired up?

You need a hobby.
 
Let me get this straight: You are hoping that you can start a Rice rumor on allbuffs, and bring it to shaggy to hopefully get a few bevo's all fired up?

You need a hobby.

...sez the poster with 17,386 posts. You signed up after me, right?

Although Larry Scott doesn't spend as much time reading AllBuffs as we do, you just know that he has consultants screening the Internet, screening content, and delivering the good nuggets for his amusement. For all I know Larry Scott developed "the Rice Option" fifteen months ago and has been sitting on it waiting for the right time to throw it out there. He could very well be sitting in his hot tub at his angular house of enlightenment laughing his ass off thinking about how long it took for this ploy to finally make it's way to a message board.
 
...sez the poster with 17,386 posts. You signed up after me, right?

Although Larry Scott doesn't spend as much time reading AllBuffs as we do, you just know that he has consultants screening the Internet, screening content, and delivering the good nuggets for his amusement. For all I know Larry Scott developed "the Rice Option" fifteen months ago and has been sitting on it waiting for the right time to throw it out there. He could very well be sitting in his hot tub at his angular house of enlightenment laughing his ass off thinking about how long it took for this ploy to finally make it's way to a message board.

17k? You are right. But at least I'm not hatching diabolical plans to piss off random message board users....
 
I've been giving some thought about how to crack this Texas nut.

One principle of good investment is to buy low and sell high. Targeting UT is not an example of buying low to get into the Lone Star State.

The PAC likes good academic institutions, preferably those that are not secular.

It seems to me that Larry Scott could increase leverage by publically extending an exploritory committee to evaluate whether lowly little Rice University might make an attractive candidate to join with Oklahoma as numbers 13 and 14.

Rice is a AAU member and a strong research institution. It's a smart academically, kinda like the Stanford of Texas. Considering Stanford is a valuable P12 member with 6,800 undergrads, Rice might not be an impossible stretch. The committee needs to debate that. The beautiful Rice campus is adjacent to the Blue Bonnet bowl and close enough to Reliant, which means game day facilities are available for sizable crowds. Rice is adored in Houston, they create a nice Southern beachhead to complement OU's North Texas presence. And, ahem, Rice doesn't play insane politics.
And the Owls have a pretty good baseball program, too.

The threat of Rice being evaluated to join the P16 sends a very strong message to Oklahoma State and Texas Tech; 1) Academics do matter. 2) Big TV markets do matter.

It also sends a signal to Texas; Larry Scott is willing to enter the state of Texas and is willing to spend big dollars to further dilute UT's brand equity. By pouring a bunch of money and Pac exposure into brainy and well mannered little Rice, not all of the eyes in Texas will be upon Texas. All the conference teams would enjoy spending game week recruiting in Rice's neighborhood, too. And it takes one of UT's perennial cupcakes off the market.

Then let UT, KU, TT and Okie Light publically make their case for the remaining two available seats on the P16 bus. Congeniality is one of the deciding factors.

Pow. Buy low.

Using your theory of buy low, sell high, the better choice would be the University of Houston. On the athletics side, they are putting on the full court press to make themselves attractive to a BCS conference. They have big plans and have already raised a great deal of money. They are banking on turning a HUGE year in football (they have a legit shot at going undefeated this year - they will probably be favored in every game they have left on the schedule with the possible exception of @Tulsa in their last game of the year) into a massive building program (new $150M football stadium and remodeled basketball arena). On the academic front, they used to be a joke (most everyone in town referred to them as Cougar High). But they have made strides there as well. It's the 3rd largest public university in Texas. And it's in a recruiting hotbed. You could make a case that adding them would be a good value.
 
17k? You are right. But at least I'm not hatching diabolical plans to piss off random message board users....

Come on Snow. This diabolical plan is not to piss off random message board users. I find the Rice to Pac16 exploritoey trial amusing, and wanted to share the idea with a dozen or so incestuous 35 year olds right here on Allbuffs, and with any luck, Larry Scott's media intern.

BTW, If you have not experienced Rice's annual Night of Decadence (NoD) party in the Sid Rich dormitory, you've missed out on a good time.
 
Come on Snow. This diabolical plan is not to piss off random message board users. I find the Rice to Pac16 exploritoey trial amusing, and wanted to share the idea with a dozen or so incestuous 35 year olds right here on Allbuffs, and with any luck, Larry Scott's media intern.

BTW, If you have not experienced Rice's annual Night of Decadence (NoD) party in the Sid Rich dormitory, you've missed out on a good time.
Sounds exclusive. Why weren't you invited? :wink2:
 
NoD is the only dorm party I've attended where the police are hired to let the revelers in. I have a relative who was the social coordinator for his residence hall.

I attended Dante's Inferno.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_Decadence

If only Williams Villiage were so accommodating...
WillVill sucks balls. Kittredge would have been better, but best would have been the dorms around Farrand.
 
You want Rice U rumor to catch on. Setup a twitter or blog account. And post "Sources say PAC-12 forming exploratory committee on possibility of Rice University to the Pac-12" No need to cite sources
 
Whatever the number is, something north of $200M for the Big12-2, the University of Texas represents a huge portion of that. Somewhere perhaps north of 25%.

Sacky's making a very similar point to my point i was trying to make in my (now buried) thread about how much money a new school brings to a conference. Let's just say, for s***s and giggles, that you are correct and Texas is worth 25% of $200M TV contracts for the Big XII, and that they get an extra $10M/yr for the LHN. That would be a value of $60M/yr. Pac 12 schools are going to get (according to conservative estimates) ~31M/yr for the TV contracts and Pac 12 network. If the Pac 12 were to bring in JUST Texas, that would be theoretically worth an extra $29M/yr divided between 13 schools, or just north of $2.2M. Is UT in a conference worth $2.2 million/yr? Maybe, they MIGHT not destroy the conference on their own. But they won't come on their own. They'll bring their voting cartel in OU, OSU, and TT.

Assuming those other schools are worth, on average, 2/3rds what UT is (OU is probably worth slightly less than Texas, TT and OSU much less), that puts the Big Tex refugees bringing $180M/yr extra revenue to the Pac ($60 for Texas, $40 M each for the other three). I think it's unlikely that's true, but this is to be a conservative estimate. That means an extra $56M ($180M-$124M) to be split among 16 schools. This is exactly $3.5M/yr for each Pac 12 school. is having UT in conference with 3 other voters that will vote UT's way (not to mention that USC and others will want preferential treatment too if UT gets it) worth $3.5 M/yr? That represents an 11% bump in pay. is it worth it?
 
You want Rice U rumor to catch on. Setup a twitter or blog account. And post "Sources say PAC-12 forming exploratory committee on possibility of Rice University to the Pac-12" No need to cite sources

I think we should do this just as an experiment and have a pool about when it gets posted on the allbuffs.

I call 3 days.
 
.... You gotta admit that a Rice exploratory committee would make for an amazing plot twist that would generate some good threads over at ShaggyBevo and BaylorFan....

Let me get this straight: You are hoping that you can start a Rice rumor on allbuffs, and bring it to shaggy to hopefully get a few bevo's all fired up?....

17k? You are right. But at least I'm not hatching diabolical plans to piss off random message board users....

Using your theory of buy low, sell high, the better choice would be the University of Houston....

I think we should do this just as an experiment and have a pool about when it gets posted on the allbuffs....

A nice interwebz rumor would be fun. Or someone could fark a pic of Uncle Ben chasing bevo.
 
Sacky, aren't you an accountant or something like that? Your argument lacks a bit of logic.

Taking $90M and dividing it by 10 to get $9M is the value Texas would receive (if in fact they shared equally).

But that has nothing to do with the VALUE of what they bring!!!! Your logic states that Iowa State and Texas are both worth $9M? They don't have equal value to the TV guys.....

Whatever the number is, something north of $200M for the Big12-2, the University of Texas represents a huge portion of that. Somewhere perhaps north of 25%.

I hate them too, and I don't think any amount of money is worth it. But there is no denying that the University of Texas by itself would add a boatload of cash to the Pac12 network's contract and sizeably increase the TV contracts. I seriously doubt Oklahoma, Okie State, etc can do much in terms of addition, rather than dilution.

I don't give a flying feck what THEIR portion is. I only care about what OUR portion is. It's not enough.
 
way back last year, when this whole conference re-alignment thing was underway, CU was PRAYING for a p10 invitation. in fact, when it was revealed that the pac wanted to go to 16 by tearing apart the b12, we were on pins and needles, hoping to be included. baylor was working evil behind the scenes to try to take our spot on the re-alignment train. our football program was (and is) at a near historical low. our athletic budget was a mess.

so, when the texas cabal slowed down, scott went bold. he invited CU to see if it would rattle the others. he took a risk in doing that. CU should be very grateful.

the texas cabal ultimately decided they'd get a better deal ****ing over the lesser remnants of the b12 so they didn't move. at that point, scott got some criticism for jumping too early and inviting CU. the view was that CU would be there, waiting for the pac, later as well as sooner. that's hard to argue with, imho. so, scott went out and had to take another risk by adding utah to round out the 12 teams (to get a conf. champ. game). this was not a first-choice for scott. utah is moving up in class and despite their very significant recent success, they are not anywhere near as big a name as ou or ut and they don't add the texas market. adding the texas market was a huge part of the pac's strategy in order to get a good tv deal.

then, scott was able to get a really epic deal for the new pac 12. everyone is thrilled. CU is rewarded for being the first to jump by being placed in with the socal teams. the other schools are cooperative because the money is so big.

now, we sit here, popping off because scott may or may not be able to pull together the 16 team conference the pac originally wanted to build. we like that we got in the door first. we want to close the door behind us. yet, when push comes to shove, usc, ucla, cal, and stanford have a much stronger argument to be allowed to stay together than any argument we could make that we shouldn't be sent east (as was the original plan).

i know this will not be a popular opinion. but, this is the "other" side of this thing. i hate texas. i hope they get ****ed and i don't want them anywhere near our conference. i like the current conference setup and i don't want it to change. but, we hardly have the moral high ground on this. everyone, including the ****ers from texas, is looking out for their self interest. scott's job is to protect and promote the collective interests of the conference, not the individual interests of any particular school, including CU.

if this train leaves the station again and the pac goes to 16, we are merely a passenger and we're not going to be able to change the destination.

just my 2 cents.

Liver, you ignorant slut.

dan_aykroyd.gif


CU to the Pac-10 was a business deal, not a charitable donation from Larry Scott. It needs to be treated as such.

The Pac-10 was locked into bad geography as far as time zones and expansion potential. In order to realize the dream of a conference championship game, a major television network of its own, and time-zone friendly games for eastern audiences it needed to go east and at least into the mountain time zone. It could not expand profitably within its existing footprint.

Further, the Pac-10 was antiquated from a revenue perspective. College sports is no longer a regional enterprise. The Pac-10 was set up as 5 sets of local rivalries banded together. The result of this is that it was only in 5 markets with its 10 teams. The conference needed to make some significant moves and changes. Larry Scott recognized this, explained it to conference members, laid out a vision, and went about implementing it.

The best bridge to the central time zone was CU. Culturally, it was a Pac-10 fit. Academically, it was a Pac-10 fit. Athletically as the "conference of champions", it was a Pac-10 fit. Beyond all that, it commanded a top 20 media market that is growing at one of the fastest national rates. CU was an integral piece of the Pac-10 expansion vision. The Pac-10 needed CU.

From the CU side, the Big 12 had become a less desirable situation. With the UT maneuvering, it wasn't a good place to be any more. Further, the CU fan base preferred the idea of joining the Pac-10. Added to that, CU's biggest challenge is fundraising and the move would put it together with its largest out-of-state alumni base in California. Further, CU saw the academic and cultural fit that didn't exist in the Big 12, so it made a lot of sense to make the move.

Of course, the money had to work from both sides.

In the midst of this, the Pac-10 vision was to go to 16 teams. Ideally, it would be through a CU bridge into the Big 12. The targets beyond CU were OU, UT and aTm. Those 4 were so beneficial to the Pac-10 that it was willing to accept OSU and TTU in the bargain and go to 16. Then, UT reared its ugly head again with its demands. Baylor started piping up about how they needed to be included and it should just be the Big 12 South that got added to the Pac-10. Larry Scott and the Pac-10 needed to nip this in the bud and regain control of the situation.

Scott's plan was to get CU to join the Pac-10 and then bring in UU with us. Not only would that give the championship game and the media leverage to get a great deal, but it would also force Baylor out of the discussion and possibly force out TTU too (thus greatly reducing the Texas influence on the conference).

In order to make that happen, CU had to step up and take a huge financial hit. CU, because it believed in this vision for the conference, made the move. CU gave up its 2010 conference revenue from the Big 12. CU agreed to go through 2011 with its only conference revenue coming from a 1/12 split of the new money from the Pac-12 conference championship game and the 9 extra conference games available for broadcast.

CU went above and beyond the call of duty to be a good conference partner and show good faith from the beginning.

After that, should CU sit idly by while there is talk of putting CU into an eastern division that would give it 1 game every 7 years in southern California? Should CU sit idly by and not concern itself with the money it lost in the transition that was distributed among Big 12 members who are looking to come into the Pac-12 as an equal partner without having to pay it back to CU? Should CU sit idly by when it is suggested it should be in a UT-focused division of the Pac-16 or maybe, with no UT, see CU be estranged from both its Texas and California alumni once the dust settles? Sit idly by while we're seen from the academic research side as being aligned with a group of schools highlighted by our friends in Arizona?

**** that!

Kudos to Bruch Benson for sticking up for CU and making it clear that we have serious interests at stake and that our voice will be heard.

just my 3 cents
 
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