The tight ends (O/U thread)

[MtnBuff]

How much would having a quality TE option available help our young QB?

Our TEs have been so ineffective that at times it is like we are playing pass offense one man down. No respect for the TE means that teams can put more coverage on the things we do well.

 

[Buffnik]

We really need to recruit a TE ready to go next year. The position is ready for the taking

I'd be very happy to see a JUCO at TE and LB in the upcoming class.

 

[slider]

I'd be very happy to see a JUCO at TE and LB in the upcoming class.

Want a JUCO TE. I doubt Bounds or Haigler end up at TE. Re: LB... I'd be surprised if we took a JUCO LB. We already have 5 LB's who would be JR's next year (Gillam, Olugbode, Severson, Rippy, and Talianko).

 

[NYBUFF]

Tight Ends

Want a JUCO TE. I doubt Bounds or Haigler end up at TE. Re: LB... I'd be surprised if we took a JUCO LB. We already have 5 LB's who would be JR's next year (Gillam, Olugbode, Severson, Rippy, and Talianko).

The game plan is not designed to use tight ends. They have caught all but two passes thrown to them all year. They are good enough, but the offense utilizes the wide outs and the tight ends run clear out or interference routes only. The tight ends that killed us for Oregon State where big and not very fast, but were effective running drag routes across the field.

 

[Quattro]

The game plan is not designed to use tight ends. They have caught all but two passes thrown to them all year. They are good enough, but the offense utilizes the wide outs and the tight ends run clear out or interference routes only. The tight ends that killed us for Oregon State where big and not very fast, but were effective running drag routes across the field.

I do not believe this is true. We don't have a true TE, but Lindgren and MacIntyre love to use the TE (check Ryan Otten's stats from 2012), but Kenney (who MacIntyre compared to Otten) is the only one who is a receiving threat and he's a injured freshman. McCulloch has had a decent year, but he's not the answer.

 

[GoBuffs08]

We could have Gronk and Julius lining up and we would still throw the WR screen 95% of the pass plays.

We had the TE open several times down the seam against UW and they never got a look. We have become check down.

 

[NYBUFF]

I do not believe this is true. We don't have a true TE, but Lindgren and MacIntyre love to use the TE (check Ryan Otten's stats from 2012), but Kenney (who MacIntyre compared to Otten) is the only one who is a receiving threat and he's a injured freshman. McCulloch has had a decent year, but he's not the answer.

McCulloch is a wide receiver, Kenney weighs less than McCulloch and has yet to even stay healthy enough to practice. The true tight ends are open when allowed to run routes. The tight ends are rarely the primary receiver and probably the last read for the quarterback. I think the coaching staff likes smaller tight ends that can run, but that does not work as well against the PAC 12. The reason they can't control the game is due to the lack of physical size and strength at the line of scrimmage. They need to get bigger and stronger and I am not seeing a lot of that over past 12 months.

 

[Quattro]

McCulloch is a wide receiver, Kenney weighs less than McCulloch and has yet to even stay healthy enough to practice. The true tight ends are open when allowed to run routes. The tight ends are rarely the primary receiver and probably the last read for the quarterback. I think the coaching staff likes smaller tight ends that can run, but that does not work as well against the PAC 12. The reason they can't control the game is due to the lack of physical size and strength at the line of scrimmage. They need to get bigger and stronger and I am not seeing a lot of that over past 12 months.

-McCulloch has been playing split TE this year
-Keeney is still a pass catching TE
-The staff loves to use the TE
-The team has absolutely gotten bigger

 

[Duff Man]

McCulloch is a wide receiver, Kenney weighs less than McCulloch and has yet to even stay healthy enough to practice. The true tight ends are open when allowed to run routes. The tight ends are rarely the primary receiver and probably the last read for the quarterback. I think the coaching staff likes smaller tight ends that can run, but that does not work as well against the PAC 12. The reason they can't control the game is due to the lack of physical size and strength at the line of scrimmage. They need to get bigger and stronger and I am not seeing a lot of that over past 12 months.

I think the lack of a true all-around TE is killing this team right now. Those guys are hard to find, but we seem to be striking out at an exceptionally high rate.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

We really need to recruit a TE ready to go next year. The position is ready for the taking

Sefo would love to have a nice big fast TE to throw the ball toward in triple coverage. It's the missing piece this year.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

McCulloch is a wide receiver, Kenney weighs less than McCulloch and has yet to even stay healthy enough to practice. The true tight ends are open when allowed to run routes. The tight ends are rarely the primary receiver and probably the last read for the quarterback. I think the coaching staff likes smaller tight ends that can run, but that does not work as well against the PAC 12. The reason they can't control the game is due to the lack of physical size and strength at the line of scrimmage. They need to get bigger and stronger and I am not seeing a lot of that over past 12 months.

Then that is a coaching error. You should alter the read progression if you see consistent open TEs and they are last. If the defense ignores them you have to make them first or second read and hit them often enough that the D can't ignore them. Same with running Sefo. You have ro make high success plays for him to gain 4 or five yards and then run it enough that the d has to respect it. He does jave to be a qb that breaks off 30 yard runs to keep the D honest. But he does have to run some and pick up first downs. Or make it second and five or four, and help open up the WR and TE clan with more D guys in the box.

And for goodness sakes, if you have 5 guys running routes, two better be deeper than 15 yards. All 5 within 15 yards doesn't clear anything out.

 

[NYBUFF]

-McCulloch has been playing split TE this year
-Keeney is still a pass catching TE
-The staff loves to use the TE
-The team has absolutely gotten bigger

Moving a larger wide receiver to the split position won't make him a tight end just a big wide out. They throw short routes to the undersized tight ends. McCulloch is never used in three point stance. If a tight end is a dual threat to block and catch he is a true tight end. The staff had a better tight end to fit there system in their prior school. The players on the team have not made big gains in size except for a few exceptions. The best player from last years defense looks 10 pounds lighter. The two starting tight ends have not had one ball thrown to them 10 yards down field. They are just as fast as Oregon States tight ends, but not used the same. A good tight end won't seem very good in a system that does not utilize them. I wonder how everyone seems to know what a great player Keeney is? Lets see what he can do once he gets healthy.

 

[NYBUFF]

Oregon State did exactly that with big tight ends and I bet none of them run better than a 4.80-5.00 forty. So why don't the buffs do the same? You don't need to fast to get open at tight end. They are covered by linebackers most times or can find hole zone coverage. Sefo has his highest completion rate when he throws to tight ends. Slavin ran over a safety to get a first down last week. I don't think McCulloch would do that or any other fast tight end.

 

[BuffHerd]

Sefo would love to have a nice big fast TE to throw the ball toward in triple coverage. It's the missing piece this year.

Ouch

 

[Quattro]

Moving a larger wide receiver to the split position won't make him a tight end just a big wide out. They throw short routes to the undersized tight ends. McCulloch is never used in three point stance. If a tight end is a dual threat to block and catch he is a true tight end. The staff had a better tight end to fit there system in their prior school. The players on the team have not made big gains in size except for a few exceptions. The best player from last years defense looks 10 pounds lighter. The two starting tight ends have not had one ball thrown to them 10 yards down field. They are just as fast as Oregon States tight ends, but not used the same. A good tight end won't seem very good in a system that does not utilize them. I wonder how everyone seems to know what a great player Keeney is? Lets see what he can do once he gets healthy.

You're stuck in the old school thought for TE's, not to mention that OSU runs a very different offense than we do. It's very common for TE's to line up as WR inside now, otherwise known as the Joker TE.

As for weight, you're off base. I've been on the sideline for the last two seasons and there is a distinct size difference this year compared to last. You're example of Gillam is bad because he's been sick all season and has lost a lot of weight and has been injured limiting his lifting.

 

[Duff Man]

You're stuck in the old school thought for TE's, not to mention that OSU runs a very different offense than we do. It's very common for TE's to line up as WR inside now, otherwise known as the Joker TE.

As for weight, you're off base. I've been on the sideline for the last two seasons and there is a distinct size difference this year compared to last. You're example of Gillam is bad because he's been sick all season and has lost a lot of weight and has been injured limiting his lifting.

The old school thought of TEs still works. Just saying.

 

[Quattro]

The old school thought of TEs still works. Just saying.

Not saying it doesnt, but 5hat doesn't seem to be the philosophy this staff uses for TEs. Really not sure where you got me saying that it doesnt work from that post.

 

[Duff Man]

Not saying it doesnt, but 5hat doesn't seem to be the philosophy this staff uses for TEs. Really not sure where you got me saying that it doesnt work from that post.

"Stuck in the old school thought for TEs" seemed negative to me.

This staff would LOVE to have an old-school TE like Oregon State's group. Any coaching staff would.

 

[Quattro]

"Stuck in the old school thought for TEs" seemed negative to me.

This staff would LOVE to have an old-school TE like Oregon State's group. Any coaching staff would.

You're not understanding the point but hey at least I got some substance out of you in your post.

 

[Duff Man]

You're not understanding the point but hey at least I got some substance out of you in your post.

I understood your point, but disagree with your assertion that the coaches would not love to have a good all-around TE. Those guys fit in any offense.

And your obsession with calling out substance in my posts is getting a little weird.

 

[Quattro]

I understood your point, but disagree with your assertion that the coaches would not love to have a good all-around TE. Those guys fit in any offense.

And your obsession with calling out substance in my posts is getting a little weird.

I'm sure they would, but their recruiting and use of the TE'S would indicate that they like the new style joker TE

 

[NYBUFF]

You're stuck in the old school thought for TE's, not to mention that OSU runs a very different offense than we do. It's very common for TE's to line up as WR inside now, otherwise known as the Joker TE.

As for weight, you're off base. I've been on the sideline for the last two seasons and there is a distinct size difference this year compared to last. You're example of Gillam is bad because he's been sick all season and has lost a lot of weight and has been injured limiting his lifting.

I am not stuck in old school, I was responding to a statement that how much a big fast tight end would help our team. They have not put one of them in a position to show us this year. Tall wide outs are not tight ends, they are not physical and do not run the safety over. The coaches run 5 receivers all the time and never allow the tight end past 10 yards. The touchdown on the first play against Arizona worked because the big tight end drew the safety down and allowed the wide out one on one coverage. Tight ends do not have to be as fast as wide outs to be effective, they just have to utilized. Take a look at the 40 times for the highest drafted tight ends, look at Gronk's time, not speed burners. The staff wants to spread it out and use wide outs. The teams that use the big traditional tight ends know how to get them out in space with smaller defenders who they overpower and shield the ball from, just like the other big tight ends that have killed CU all year. The tight end from Umass was not fast but sure was effective. Running a different offense is another way of saying we don't use our bigger tight ends to catch passes.

 

[Buffnik]

I am not stuck in old school, I was responding to a statement that how much a big fast tight end would help our team. They have not put one of them in a position to show us this year. Tall wide outs are not tight ends, they are not physical and do not run the safety over. The coaches run 5 receivers all the time and never allow the tight end past 10 yards. The touchdown on the first play against Arizona worked because the big tight end drew the safety down and allowed the wide out one on one coverage. Tight ends do not have to be as fast as wide outs to be effective, they just have to utilized. Take a look at the 40 times for the highest drafted tight ends, look at Gronk's time, not speed burners. The staff wants to spread it out and use wide outs. The teams that use the big traditional tight ends know how to get them out in space with smaller defenders who they overpower and shield the ball from, just like the other big tight ends that have killed CU all year. The tight end from Umass was not fast but sure was effective. Running a different offense is another way of saying we don't use our bigger tight ends to catch passes.

I think the main issue is that our bigger TEs aren't that big. They're not 6'6". So I think we have an issue where they're not the types who are going to out-run a LB or beat him with short area quickness. They're also not the type who are going to present a big target while walling off a NB or S. So their utility is pretty much limited to when scheme runs them open and they make the catch when they're open in a hole in the defense.

With so few downfield threats and questionable pass protection on those slower developing routes, there's just not a lot of room for our TEs to operate and find those holes when they're not either huge or fast.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I'd take a TE that can do it all. I don't mind if he splits out sometimes, hell, the good ones do. They are so important to any offense. No telling how our O would have done even this year had we had a good TE.

 

[NYBUFF]

I think the main issue is that our bigger TEs aren't that big. They're not 6'6". So I think we have an issue where they're not the types who are going to out-run a LB or beat him with short area quickness. They're also not the type who are going to present a big target while walling off a NB or S. So their utility is pretty much limited to when scheme runs them open and they make the catch when they're open in a hole in the defense.

With so few downfield threats and questionable pass protection on those slower developing routes, there's just not a lot of room for our TEs to operate and find those holes when they're not either huge or fast.

We have a few coming just wait till next year. two are 6'5" plus and one is 260 plus . I just hope they use them more than this year.

 

[Quattro]

We have a few coming just wait till next year. two are 6'5" plus and one is 260 plus . I just hope they use them more than this year.

Who are they? I really doubt Bounds and Haigler play TE

 

[NYBUFF]

#85 Center red shirt freshman, 6 foot seven inches, 260lbs plus. #89 Hayden Jones 6 foot 6 inches 245lbs coming off shoulder surgery. These two are the right size and speed and just needed time to get up to speed.