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WBB Hype

MarkW

Well-Known Member
Since this is the “WBB Season Hype” thread, I’ll get things started with my take on what to expect. Unfortunately, it’s not going to be optimistic. Simply, I don’t see this season’s edition of the Buffs as having any more talent than in previous seasons, stretching back to the end of the Lappe era. Additionally, one of the best players in program history, Kennedy Leonard, has graduated and no one on this team has her level of talent. So, I am going to predict that there may be more conference wins than last season, but not enough to finish in the top 8 or so. Perhaps they’ll squeak into the WNIT based on a strong record against a relatively weak non-conference schedule and just enough conference wins (6 or so). But the reality is that this program is stuck in neutral. There hasn’t been enough talent recruited to make the Buffs competitive in a very good Pac 12. The most recent recruiting class was ranked #88 in the country - prior to the signing of Kulinska.

The issues that may carry over from last season? Shooting and defending the three pointer. I know that Leonard was injured during the conference portion of the schedule, but the disparity between the percent shot by the Buffs and their opponents was large - 27.4% for CU to 40.6% for their opponents. And Pac 12 opponents made 35 more threes than the Buffs. And just defense in general has been an issue in conference play. Opponents shot 46.2% to the Buffs 36.9% from the floor.

Turnovers have been another ongoing issue as well. Last season CU turned the ball over 50 more times over the course of the conference schedule compared to their opposition.

So, if CU is going to have much success in Pac 12 play they are going to have to be a lot better in many areas (defending, shooting, turnovers) while playing a number of younger players. There will be only one senior on the team and three juniors, one of whom transferred in from a Juco. Five freshmen and four sophomores. A number of them are going to have to really produce on both ends.

On a positive note, it’s possible that interior scoring could be improved. The roster has five players 6’3 or better. And we know that Peanut is a power interior player at 6-1.

The flip side of this is perimeter shooting and of course point guard play. There are a lot of question marks here.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
have to agree with MarkW Think this is going to be a tough year and J.R. may be gone. I do like they have some size but do not know if they can play or if they are just big. I hope somebody can shoot this year and do it constantly. I like Hollingshed but she disappears for games. I just do not see a lot of talent on this roster and I wonder if this coaching staff has what it takes to compete in the PAC 12. The girl from Georgia that transferred last year could have been a difference maker this year imo
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
I really like Coach Payne and want to see her be successful here.

Agree with @MarkW that isn't likely to happen this year, looks like another struggling season.

Hope they can overachieve and while I'm not hoping for a "great" season if they can take a step forward in terms of wins it could set them up with something to build on.

While they don't have the proven talent there is a sense of enthusiasm and it looks like the women have the right attitude and are willing to do what is needed to get better.
 

buffgal

Club Member
Club Member
I like everything about her other than the win/loss totals.
Same and you can't build a program that's been near the bottom of the conference since Coach Barry retired by continuously changing coaches. Even Coach Barry wasn't all that successful her last few years. KMM was not successful, Lappe was not successful, JR has not been successful in terms of wins and losses.

The players seem to like JR, which says a lot to me about the way she treats them. She has an infectious personality and can always find something positive to say.

It no longer matters who left the program last year. This is the team we have this season and I will cheer them on.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
she has shown she has trouble recruiting and winning. She is a nice person and i am sure the players like her but when was the last time she beat out a top 6 team in the Pac for a player. To me her biggest issue is her top assistant can't recruit but she really can't fire him. You are paid to win games and I agree you can't keep changing coaches but if we were talking bout football or mens basketball then she would be on the hot seat.
 

LifeofaBuff

Well-Known Member
This team is really lacking talent. It wouldn't be surprising if they don't get any wins in conference this year. As for JR. I enjoy her enthusiasm and how much most of her players enjoy being around her. Her recruiting problems have less to do with the talent of the players she has brought in and more to do with the fact that she has taken a LOT of risks on players and those risks haven't panned out. The one player JR didn't connect well with, for whatever reason, is the girl from Georgia and I have to agree with @Bmixer that she very likely would have been a difference maker this year. Hate to say this, but if things go as expected for the team this year, it will be very tough for JR to maintain her position as the team would be in worse shape than when she got here (and that isn't an easy thing to accomplish).
 

MarkW

Well-Known Member
I guess it's a good time to ask. What are your opinions on Payne?
JR & her staff are diligent and relentlessly optimistic. They support the players on and off the court and sincerely want them to succeed in terms of wins and losses as well as academically. And, having met her personally as well as coach T, I would say they are thoughtful people who I wish I could spend time hanging out with.

For me the issue is that they haven't recruited to the level needed to compete in the Pac 12. Not many of the players on the roster were recruited by other P5 programs and I think it shows in the results - or lack there of - on the court. To me, the foundation of success begins with recruiting, especially when you are trying to compete with the Oregons and Stanfords of the world. Coaching, etc., matters, but it can't alone overcome the talent level of the top tier teams in the conference.

I think RG has noticed this in football. He brought in a head coach who seems to get it that you have to recruit well to have success.
 

MarkW

Well-Known Member
The girl from Georgia that transferred last year could have been a difference maker this year imo
Cam Swartz did look like she would have been a a difference maker on the perimeter. She had the ability to create her own shot off the dribble, etc.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
Its not all on J.R and her staff either. This program has been trending down since Fagan and that class left. The A.D. has to support the program better. I am not in the know, but I imagine they do not support the program anywhere near the way Oregon or the other pac 12 teams do. I want J.R. to succeed but till they start competing on the recruiting trail they are going to struggle. Emma Clark intrigues me this year. She could be a nice player for them
 

MarkW

Well-Known Member
The A.D. has to support the program better. I am not in the know, but I imagine they do not support the program anywhere near the way Oregon or the other pac 12 teams do
Interesting and important thought. Does the program get the support from the AD needed to top 100 caliber players?

For years I have been mystify about the lack of consistently good recruiting. To me, CU seems to have the potential to be a consistent top 15 caliber team, but obviously that hasn't happened.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
I know people who follow mens BB say that CU does not come close to supporting like they should compared to other teams in the pac 12. I imagine that is the same with the women's program. I agree that there is no reason the program cant be a good program. IMO there is not reason Oregon should be so good and CU be at the bottom every year. If Widden gets kids to come out from the east and play Lacrosse at a start up program on a recreational field than why cant the WBB program make a bigger splash in recruiting. This year when Kim English left the men's bball team, Tad hired a coach with known recruiting chops on the west coast. Payne has nobody that can recruit against big time programs on her staff imo.
 

buffgal

Club Member
Club Member
I don't think CU has ever put money behind the WBB program. At least not in recent memory. Without the $$$ to hire a high caliber coach, the program isn't going to get better.

JR does not get paid what Kelly Graves or Tara Van Deveer get paid.

Games are scheduled at weird times of the day which means people don't attend. The non-conference schedule has been week for the last 3 coaches. Ceal was able to get top teams in but with our RPI, I'm guessing that is more difficult now.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
I don't think CU has ever put money behind the WBB program. At least not in recent memory. Without the $$$ to hire a high caliber coach, the program isn't going to get better.

JR does not get paid what Kelly Graves or Tara Van Deveer get paid.

Games are scheduled at weird times of the day which means people don't attend. The non-conference schedule has been week for the last 3 coaches. Ceal was able to get top teams in but with our RPI, I'm guessing that is more difficult now.
I wonder where Payne's salary is compared to the rest of the pac 12. Agree with the non conference schedule. Some of those teams they played last year should not have been on the schedule. I wonder if television has control over game times like it does in football I get Van Deveer is paid and should be and so should Graves but before Graves got to Oregon he was not a high dollar coach. Mahoney had a top 10 recruiting class this year and has brought in some good players in his time. I think Payne should be able to be better than she is in recruiting and George is big on recruiting I just think George is looking for something from the team this year or he is going to do something.
 

PAHIBuff

Club Member
Club Member
It's been puzzling to me why the WBB program has a such a hard time with recruiting. Not just nationally, but specifically in keeping a good percentage of local talent here. The next local standout that WBB will have to fight for in a few years is the 6'7" young lady from Grandview HS in Aurora and I'm not optimistic. There are lots of young folks in the country that are thrilled to come to Boulder/CU for their education. But female athletes not so much. The world class female sprinter from Denver East High and her suburban distance-running counterpart both signed with Georgia.

Maybe it's facilities and bells/whistles. Just kind of odd. IMO Boulder should look pretty interesting to a young female athlete, and especially in track and field where some immediate examples of excellence and success over the last 10 years are available.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
I can see why a sprinter has no interest in CU. till this year CU has had no pulse in the sprinter program. Wetmore has a very limited amount of scholarships and uses them mostly for distance. The champion center has been a help for them but he will attract a certain type of runner. I am not a close the border person but I do think the WBB program could benefit from putting more emphasis on the state. I also think being in state the warts are easier to see then if you are from another state. The mountains and the beauty of the town does not affect you like those who hardly ever seen them. Till they win consistently they are going to have a hard time competing with the Stanfords and Texas of the world when recruiting against them.
 

dyemeduke

Well-Known Member
It's been puzzling to me why the WBB program has a such a hard time with recruiting. Not just nationally, but specifically in keeping a good percentage of local talent here. The next local standout that WBB will have to fight for in a few years is the 6'7" young lady from Grandview HS in Aurora and I'm not optimistic. There are lots of young folks in the country that are thrilled to come to Boulder/CU for their education. But female athletes not so much. The world class female sprinter from Denver East High and her suburban distance-running counterpart both signed with Georgia.

Maybe it's facilities and bells/whistles. Just kind of odd. IMO Boulder should look pretty interesting to a young female athlete, and especially in track and field where some immediate examples of excellence and success over the last 10 years are available.
Whoa...I swore you made a mistake and was talking about Fran Belibi at Regis, but the 6-7 statement didn't fit. So, I had to look her up. Lauren Betts. I couldn't find any news on her recruiting, but yes, she is definitely going to be a national recruit.

Yeah, I've always felt that CO has incredibly deep womens' sports talent pool at HS levels, per capita, and it was frustrating to see the top talent leave for elsewhere, especially soccer and basketball. But to me, it seems that there's a general apathy about CU, in/around Denver at least. Our flagship sport has been down when the droves of people have moved to the state, so a pride and fervor for CU wasn't fostered to our new neighbors. Then, people that either don't like or are ambivalent about CU feel CU underachieves and is disappointing. People come here repping their midwest teams, and even though everyone loves the state of CO, their loyalties are to where they came from. When I was a HS senior, I wanted to leave the state for many personal reasons, but one of them was that CU was just the school up the road. I wanted something more prestigious. It took me actually going to CU to realize that CU is pretty damn good and nothing to scoff at.
 

buffgal

Club Member
Club Member
Coach Barry had problems recruiting in state talent during her time at CU, too. Seems like the players want to try what they see as greener pastures.
 

Bmixer

Well-Known Member
Whoa...I swore you made a mistake and was talking about Fran Belibi at Regis, but the 6-7 statement didn't fit. So, I had to look her up. Lauren Betts. I couldn't find any news on her recruiting, but yes, she is definitely going to be a national recruit.

Yeah, I've always felt that CO has incredibly deep womens' sports talent pool at HS levels, per capita, and it was frustrating to see the top talent leave for elsewhere, especially soccer and basketball. But to me, it seems that there's a general apathy about CU, in/around Denver at least. Our flagship sport has been down when the droves of people have moved to the state, so a pride and fervor for CU wasn't fostered to our new neighbors. Then, people that either don't like or are ambivalent about CU feel CU underachieves and is disappointing. People come here repping their midwest teams, and even though everyone loves the state of CO, their loyalties are to where they came from. When I was a HS senior, I wanted to leave the state for many personal reasons, but one of them was that CU was just the school up the road. I wanted something more prestigious. It took me actually going to CU to realize that CU is pretty damn good and nothing to scoff at.

I have always felt one of the great failures of CU as a university is that is has not endeared it self to the state and the population. Instead of fighting over politics the regents should be trying to find a way to help the university in that area. I also think the high level of transplants to this state hurts that. People come in with their own favorites and CU has done nothing to change them over to CU fans. I have friends that live here and their kids are looking at colleges and CU is not on their short lists. One friend had a child that studied Chemical Engineering at Cu and now she wishes her other two kids went to CU. CU needs to win in football, baseketball and women's basketball to get attention in this state.
I think J.R.s personality could be a benefit but she need s to win and be a consistent NCAA tourney team.
 

PAHIBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Whoa...I swore you made a mistake and was talking about Fran Belibi at Regis, but the 6-7 statement didn't fit. So, I had to look her up. Lauren Betts. I couldn't find any news on her recruiting, but yes, she is definitely going to be a national recruit.

Yeah, I've always felt that CO has incredibly deep womens' sports talent pool at HS levels, per capita, and it was frustrating to see the top talent leave for elsewhere, especially soccer an d basketball. But to me, it seems that there's a general apathy about CU, in/around Denver at least. Our flagship sport has been down when the droves of people have moved to the state, so a pride and fervor for CU wasn't fostered to our new neighbors. Then, people that either don't like or are ambivalent about CU feel CU underachieves and is disappointing. People come here repping their midwest teams, and even though everyone loves the state of CO, their loyalties are to where they came from. When I was a HS senior, I wanted to leave the state for many personal reasons, but one of them was that CU was just the school up the road. I wanted something more prestigious. It took me actually going to CU to realize that CU is pretty damn good and nothing to scoff at.
Yes thanks for the reminder. Lauren Betts; saw her play last year. Very Good now and will only get better.
 

BeBe

Club Member
Club Member
Betts is currently the #1 overall player (and of course #1 post player) in the class of 2022 on ESPN recruiting ranking.
 

PAHIBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Betts is currently the #1 overall player (and of course #1 post player) in the class of 2022 on ESPN recruiting ranking.
Thanks BeBe, you are a lot more up on this than I am. I saw her play against Regis last year and she really plays a smart controlled game for her age and height. I didn't know much about Betts or Grandview HS when I went to the game but once the game started you couldn't stop following her.
 
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