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We are better than many ABers think

Watch lists do not mean much. If you might recall, Keenan Stevens was on the Remington watchlist. He did not even finish the season as the starter after a particularly fateful day in Berkeley. Watch lists are a function of the AD, as others have pointed out. I believe CU will be a better team next year, but the fact remains they were on the receiving end of some epic butt kickings. Part of that was coaching, but part of it was that CU was simply outmanned at some of the positions on the field. Sometimes that was attributable to youth, other times attributable to the fact that the person across from them was simply a better player. Given the schedule, a bad season would be two or less wins. A good season would be four wins.
 
GoBuffs08 said:
Until we get better QB play it does not matter how many preseason watch list players we have. Hell we had O linemen drafted in the first round the last few years and still could not run the ball for 3 yards when we needed a first down.
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This. We have not had a decent QB in over 10 years and not had a really good one since Detmer. Until we have one who can make up for the lack of talent and depth at other positions we are going to remain bad. Hopefully Wood or Sefo is that guy, but until one of them proves it, it is just wishful thinking.
 
boydbuff said:
Don't get me wrong, we were a disgusting disgrace to div 1 football last year-or maybe just football in general. I have been vocally optimistic about our chances under HCMM and made numerous arguments on AB to suggest our overall talent is good enough to be a middle of the pack team in the nation (i.e. in the neighborhood of 60th instead of 124th).

I have no interest or time to actually research this in depth, but I bet there are a few Pac 12 teams and probably 40-60 other Div 1 teams that do not have as many athletes on preseason watch lists as we do. We have a LB, a running back, a wide receiver, a punter, I think our center (?) and a Defensive End on preseason watch lists.

Our cupboard is not bare. The right schemes, the right coaches, the right mentality (arguably the most important part of this puzzle), can get us to respectability very quickly. If Wood can put it together, we can be a decent team this year.

Don't get me wrong, I realize our overall depth and team speed has plenty of room for improvement, but we have enough talent to win some games and be competitive in most. The talent was hidden by one of the worst coaching staffs ever assembled for D1 football.
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These "watch lists" encompass a massive amount of players. It means very little.
 
Keep drinking the kool-aid. After that first kickoff when the season starts, the reality of how dire our situation is will come crashing back down upon us.
 
So we have 6 players that MIGHT be among the top 50-60 at their position (one of which is a punter), and I'm supposed to believe that means we are a much better team this year? Boyd, that's some interesting logic.
 
SINKRATZ said:
So we have 6 players that MIGHT be among the top 50-60 at their position (one of which is a punter), and I'm supposed to believe that means we are a much better team this year? Boyd, that's some interesting logic.
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I am not saying the 6 players on watch lists make us a much better team than last year.

I am saying that I disagree with others on AB who continue to argue we are so woefully lacking talent that coaching can't possibly make a difference. I used the argument in a prior thread leveraging aggregate team recruiting rankings and I am using this argument about watch lists to suggest we have some playmakers at key positions that are considered amongst the best at their position in the country.

With a few key players on each side of the ball, and overall average talent on the roster, HCMM has something to work with. If he is as good as Bohn thought, and others in the college football space, and as good as his performance at SJSU suggests, HCMM should accomplish something this year.
 
An offensive center, a RB who will not go over 1000 yards (in your own estimation), and a punter are three of those six "key" players.
 
Let's be honest - the only gamechanging talent that we KNOW we have on this team is PRich - and he's coming back from injury.

There are a handful of other guys who've shown flashes and have potential.

Beyond that, the rest of the team is going to really have to take some major steps forward if we're going to have any hope of significant improvement this season.
 
IMO, watch list are composed for throwing a bunch of s**t at a wall and see what (who) sticks. That way some guy can say, "see, I told you he was a stud".
 
Football teams are as strong as their weakest link. Good teams (not great, just good) have a few deep of guys who are proven in the program with at least 2-3 years of development, with a few freak athletes being the exception.
We will be defined not by how many guys we have up for this or that preseason award, but by how many holes we are able to fill with just capable guys.

Our depth is frightening at QB, O-Line, and many of the skill positions.
 
After re-watching some of the games from last year, I seriously don't have a clue what we do, and do not, have in terms of talent. I am not saying it is my expectation but if we win 2 or 3 conference games and at least 2 NC games, it will be legitimate empirical confirming evidence against JE and EB.
 
ShaneHoover said:
After re-watching some of the games from last year, I seriously don't have a clue what we do, and do not, have in terms of talent. I am not saying it is my expectation but if we win 2 or 3 conference games and at least 2 NC games, it will be legitimate empirical confirming evidence against JE and EB.
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Wow you are a serious masochistic.
 
Preseason watch lists don't mean ****.... doesn't nearly everyone get on a preseason watchlist for some reason or another, if they are a starter on a bcs team?
 
I think the upside is 4 wins, but I'm sticking with 2 because we don't have nearly enough for MM to work with, yet.
 
zbuff said:
I think the upside is 4 wins, but I'm sticking with 2 because we don't have nearly enough for MM to work with, yet.
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Yep. I think if we hit 4 wins then MM has done a solid job to start his tenure. The irony being that a modest 4 win season will probably be enough to jolt recruiting because of the perception of progress and improvement.
 
Duff Man said:
I think where we diverge is the meaning of "some".
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We have to agree to disagree. I believe we have a handful of top tier players (a few on each side of the ball) and average talent across the board for Div.1 and below average for BCS. Based on the statistics and research I have done, with average coaching I believe we should be around the 60th best team in the nation.

However, if our coaching staff is beyond average, which I hope they are, than we could be slightly better than 60th at the end of the year. Time will tell.
 
boydbuff said:
We have to agree to disagree. I believe we have a handful of top tier players (a few on each side of the ball) and average talent across the board for Div.1 and below average for BCS. Based on the statistics and research I have done, with average coaching I believe we should be around the 60th best team in the nation.

However, if our coaching staff is beyond average, which I hope they are, than we could be slightly better than 60th at the end of the year. Time will tell.
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:wow: C'mon. Name 3.
 
Duff Man said:
I think where we diverge is the meaning of "some".
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I agree with the following from the article:

"Former San Jose State head coach Mike MacIntyre takes over, inheriting a roster that, frankly, may possess less talent than the one he built with the Spartans, a Mountain West team that boasts star senior quarterback David Fales."

People need to be patient. It's going to take longer than two years to get this program back on track.
 
SINKRATZ said:
:wow: C'mon. Name 3.
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Well a damn good start is the NFL caliber list I posted an hour ago. Plenty of others not on that list that I think are very talented and could play on several BCS teams (e.g. Henderson, and D. Webb for starters). Certainly Wood was recruited by many BCS schools but hasn't yet proven his potential yet. This could be the season he breaks out and next year be amongst the best in the Pac.
 
We have so much extra talent that we're 2.5 pt dogs to a terrible CSU team. Awesome!
 
boydbuff said:
Well a damn good start is the NFL caliber list I posted an hour ago. Plenty of others not on that list that I think are very talented and could play on several BCS teams (e.g. Henderson, and D. Webb for starters). Certainly Wood was recruited by many BCS schools but hasn't yet proven his potential yet. This could be the season he breaks out and next year be amongst the best in the Pac.
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Well we must have wildly different definitions of "top flight players". To me that means being among the best at your position at least within your conference. I think we have 1 that fits that definition, maybe 2 if you count the punter. I don't consider someone who "could play on several BCS teams" to be a top flight player.
 
boydbuff said:
FYI, new article about CU's current roster who has NFL potential:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/22832335/nfl-draft-colorado-preview

Further evidence objective observers also recognize we have some talent. HCMM has to get the most out of it while upgrading the roster over time.
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The only reason Orms and Webb put up decent stats, and therefore made it onto that list, is because we had so little talent at linebacker and safety that they played by default.
 
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