#Fire Coach Dorrell

[Not Sure]

Phil forcing the AD to take the $17MM loan from the PAC 12 while not another single member school did the same is another great clue as to the criminal negligence of Phil DiStefano.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I feel like you keep ignoring a few issues:

1) the Athletic Department has not been significantly net positive for many years due to mismanagement. The academic part of the institution has supported the Athletic Department in the past on several occasions by helping them pay buyouts of other failed coaches and to build facilities. The continued mismanagement by the Athletic Directors has not earned the Athletic Department any good will.

2) What has also eroded the good will of the school is that the Athletic Department has not proven to be a net positive investment for the school in two decades. The Athletic Department has been a player in major conference sports for nearly four decades. Yet, due to mismanagement, the Athletic Department needs bailouts from the school when the funds flow should be exactly the opposite. This is especially troublesome now that major college sports are making more money now than they ever have before.

3) You cannot have it both ways with admissions. If the school needs to bail out the Athletic Department, that gives the academic side the authority to decide whatever the hell they want WRT admissions, transfer rules, etc. IF the Athletic Department wants its independence, they will need to get their own money and stop asking the academics for their routine semi-decade bailout. IF the Athletic Department wants to get help with admissions, they need to be resourceful AND figure a way to make enough money to via fundraising that they produce a competitive product while also paying the school enough money to STFU and leave Athletics alone.

TLDR: it is absurd to demand independence from daddy when you’re too broke to pay your own bills.

The best programs in the country are the best because the schools want them to be. Period.

 

[GoBuffs08]

The best programs in the country are the best because the schools want them to be. Period.

Gordon Gee was a huge supporter of the athletic program and understood that a successful football team would increase revenue for the entire university. Unfortunately he left and we ended up with Judith Albino in 1991 and several presidents since that didn't give a crap about the athletic department.

 

[slider]

I feel like Saliman or whatever his name is cares. Didn’t the University just give all the Olympic sports like $15 mil? That’s kinda a big deal. Now show football some love

 

[Not Sure]

Either the school supports athletics or it doesn’t. If the AD needs financial support, schools that care about athletics will provide that financial support. If it’s admin support like admissions, transfers, academic counseling and support, the school will provide it. It does so because it values what the AD brings to the school in terms of exposure, community engagement, alumni engagement, student experience, etc. Schools that don’t care claim the AD is “independent” and let it twist in the wind while their competition laps them.

It’s pretty obvious how CU views athletics.

 

[Hank]

No PAC 12, no $17MM loan to the PAC 12. RG playing 3D chess.

Not sure that is correct. Absent special language in the terms, I think the $17mm would be included in the liquidation value of the conference. Maybe the conference would forgive the loan, but I don't think it's that clear. Just because the conference goes away, that doesn't necessarily mean the obligation goes away. Either the conference could stay in existence to collect its receivables, or a receivership could be established.

 

[Not Sure]

Not sure that is correct. Absent special language in the terms, I think the $17mm would be included in the liquidation value of the conference. Maybe the conference would forgive the loan, but I don't think it's that clear. Just because the conference goes away, that doesn't necessarily mean the obligation goes away. Either the conference could stay in existence to collect its receivables, or a receivership could be established.

It’s not correct. It was a joke.

 

[Buffnik]

Not sure that is correct. Absent special language in the terms, I think the $17mm would be included in the liquidation value of the conference. Maybe the conference would forgive the loan, but I don't think it's that clear. Just because the conference goes away, that doesn't necessarily mean the obligation goes away. Either the conference could stay in existence to collect its receivables, or a receivership could be established.

The loan payback is a reduction in annual receipts by CU for a number of years. If the conference folds and there's no revenue, I don't know what that would mean. I'd expect that if CU took a B12 invite and the P12 continued to exist that CU would owe that money back. That's got to be a factor tying our hands right now.

 

[dio]

Gordon Gee was a huge supporter of the athletic program and understood that a successful football team would increase revenue for the entire university. Unfortunately he left and we ended up with Judith Albino in 1991 and several presidents since that didn't give a crap about the athletic department.

The issue is that the President's office moved to Denver. It is multiple steps removed from the AD, with a 4 campus focus. The Chancellor needs to fill the role that Gee was filling, and we've had poor leadership there for awhile.

 

[Not Sure]

The issue is that the President's office moved to Denver. It is multiple steps removed from the AD, with a 4 campus focus. The Chancellor needs to fill the role that Gee was filling, and we've had poor leadership there for awhile.

I would love to see the Presidents office returned to Boulder. The justification for putting it in Denver was to be closer to the legislature. That’s not nearly as important now as it was then, and the Boulder campus has suffered as a result.

 

[manhattanbuff]

The best programs in the country are the best because the schools want them to be. Period.

Well managed Athletic Departments force the issue by bringing in overwhelming amounts of money. Period.

 

[dio]

I would love to see the Presidents office returned to Boulder. The justification for putting it in Denver was to be closer to the legislature. That’s not nearly as important now as it was then, and the Boulder campus has suffered as a result.

I don't disagree, but that will never happen.

I personally think that CU needs a radical new 4-campus vision. If I was in charge, I would blow up the branding for the individual campuses, and instead have everything roll into @colorado.edu with Ralphie and the Boulder branding. I would try to centralize the administration of those 4 campuses into a single entity, so that we aren't quadruppling administrative roles/expenses. I would try to tie Anschutz, Denver and UCCS into the same branding and a similar student experience, to drive brand adoption and investment across the region.

Basically I would knock down every wall I could between the campuses, and try to unify around the Boulder brand.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Well managed Athletic Departments force the issue by bringing in overwhelming amounts of money. Period.

Again, chicken and egg. CUAD isn't going to bring in overwhelming amounts of money until the administration allows it to compete on the same playing field as their peer institutions. You are now the only one here* having trouble grasping the concept that the success of the AD is dependent on the support, both financially and other, the school provides.

*I know that you understand this concept, but you refuse to acknowledge that anyone other than Rick George is at fault.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I would love to see the Presidents office returned to Boulder. The justification for putting it in Denver was to be closer to the legislature. That’s not nearly as important now as it was then, and the Boulder campus has suffered as a result.

Being physically closer to legislature isn't as important now, but the unintended consequences of legislative decisions over the years have had a massive impact on the football program.

 

[Not Sure]

Being physically closer to legislature isn't as important now, but the unintended consequences of legislative decisions over the years have had a massive impact on the football program.

Perhaps, but having the office of the President physically located in Denver isn’t going to help change any of those legislative decisions. The move might have made some sense at the time, as state support for higher education was reaching a tipping point. I am of the belief that moving the President to Denver deflected attention away from the flagship campus and directed it to the other three campuses. As these other campuses are not seen as elitist ivy tower institutions, it’s easier to sell the idea that additional state funding is going towards working class families that might not be able to afford CU-Boulder. The entire Boulder campus, not just athletics, has suffered as a result.

 

[Buffs35]

I feel like you keep ignoring a few issues:

1) the Athletic Department has not been significantly net positive for many years due to mismanagement. The academic part of the institution has supported the Athletic Department in the past on several occasions by helping them pay buyouts of other failed coaches and to build facilities. The continued mismanagement by the Athletic Directors has not earned the Athletic Department any good will.

2) What has also eroded the good will of the school is that the Athletic Department has not proven to be a net positive investment for the school in two decades. The Athletic Department has been a player in major conference sports for nearly four decades. Yet, due to mismanagement, the Athletic Department needs bailouts from the school when the funds flow should be exactly the opposite. This is especially troublesome now that major college sports are making more money now than they ever have before.

3) You cannot have it both ways with admissions. If the school needs to bail out the Athletic Department, that gives the academic side the authority to decide whatever the hell they want WRT admissions, transfer rules, etc. IF the Athletic Department wants its independence, they will need to get their own money and stop asking the academics for their routine semi-decade bailout. IF the Athletic Department wants to get help with admissions, they need to be resourceful AND figure a way to make enough money to via fundraising that they produce a competitive product while also paying the school enough money to STFU and leave Athletics alone.

TLDR: it is absurd to demand independence from daddy when you’re too broke to pay your own bills.

Chicken or the egg.

I'd argue that if academics tried to attract Coloradans and others in the region there would be greater alumni participation for the AD and other departments. There'd be no need to bailout the AD because alumni would actually be invested. Instead, CU boulder wants meathead bros and insta-famous coeds that bleach their bums in order to milk higher out-of-state tuition in exchange for an average undergrad degree. CU doesn't seem to give a flying f*ck about Coloradans or the region; heck they're not even in the WUE like other Colorado schools. They decided to build cool pools and other amenities to attract affluent out-of-staters that immediately go back to their home states after graduation.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Again, chicken and egg. CUAD isn't going to bring in overwhelming amounts of money until the administration allows it to compete on the same playing field as their peer institutions. You are now the only one here* having trouble grasping the concept that the success of the AD is dependent on the support, both financially and other, the school provides.

*I know that you understand this concept, but you refuse to acknowledge that anyone other than Rick George is at fault.

I have already explained why this is wrong and you keep repeating this assertion. I will eject.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Chicken or the egg.

I'd argue that if academics tried to attract Coloradans and others in the region there would be greater alumni participation for the AD and other departments. There'd be no need to bailout the AD because alumni would actually be invested. Instead, CU boulder wants meathead bros and insta-famous coeds that bleach their bums in order to milk higher out-of-state tuition in exchange for an average undergrad degree. CU doesn't seem to give a flying f*ck about Coloradans or the region; heck they're not even in the WUE like other Colorado schools. They decided to build cool pools and other amenities to attract affluent out-of-staters that immediately go back to their home states after graduation.

I’ve already explained why this is wrong ITT.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I have already explained why this is wrong and you keep repeating this assertion. I will eject.

No, you haven't, actually. You have said the AD needs to start making more money in order to operate independently and tell the school the "STFU". You refuse to acknowledge that in order for the AD to do that, it first needs full support from the school. You are the only person ITT saying differently.

 

[Not Sure]

Recently, CU put out a posting on social media celebrating the fact that they came in at #45 on the recent US news rankings for public universities. Sounds great, right? Not so fast my friend - look a little closer and you’ll see that CU’s overall ranking has dropped from 88 (including private schools) to 103 in just seven years. I tried to see what the public school rankings were over the same period, but that’s not easily found. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that our ranking among public Universities has also dropped over that same time period.
We tend to view the school through the lens of the athletic department and specifically the football program, but the entire school is suffering under current leadership.

 

[leftybuff]

It’s not correct. It was a jokie.

fify.

 

[hawg1]

I’ll summarize.

 

[dio]

Honest question - why do we care about the ranking in USNWR?

I would accept a much lower academic ranking if it meant that CU was more unified, more affordable, and more accessible for more people to gain an education.

 

[manhattanbuff]

No, you haven't, actually. You have said the AD needs to start making more money in order to operate independently and tell the school the "STFU". You refuse to acknowledge that in order for the AD to do that, it first needs full support from the school. You are the only person ITT saying differently.

I have actually. I’ve explained that the Athletic Department has routinely mismanaged funds and has proven to be a poor investment due to their regular need for school bailouts and low ROI. You’re saying that the school ought to blindly support an entity that’s proven to be a horrible steward of its resources and should grant independence to a party that hasn’t earned it.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I have actually. I’ve explained that the Athletic Department has routinely mismanaged funds and has proven to be a poor investment due to their regular need for school bailouts and low ROI. You’re saying that the school ought to blindly support an entity that’s proven to be a horrible steward of its resources and should grant independence to a party that hasn’t earned it.

Yes, I'm saying the school should support IT'S OWN ENTITY (not just some separate, unrelated entity), because you know, the University of Colorado Athletic Department is part of the University of Colorado. You are saying that because the AD has mismanaged funds and made poor hires (which is a cost of doing business in major college athletics) in the past, the school should stop supporting it going forward. Cut off it's nose to spite it's own face is your perspective, which makes no sense.

 

[Not Sure]

I don’t believe it’s a chicken/egg situation. That would require one to depend on the other for it’s very existence. The school does not need the athletic department to exist as a functioning university. The school comes first and therefore must decide if a functioning, successful athletic department is worthwhile. The school likes the idea of a functioning, successful athletic department but is completely unwilling to make the necessary commitments to ensure that happens. They have, in fact, done the exact opposite. They not only don’t support it financially, they don’t support it culturally and administratively. They like the $10MM+ they get from the AD every year in student tuition and fee payments, though.

 

[Not Sure]

I have actually. I’ve explained that the Athletic Department has routinely mismanaged funds and has proven to be a poor investment due to their regular need for school bailouts and low ROI. You’re saying that the school ought to blindly support an entity that’s proven to be a horrible steward of its resources and should grant independence to a party that hasn’t earned it.

This just simply isn’t true. Check the budgets for the years not impacted by Covid. The AD has a $90MM budget and generally stays within that budget.

 

[Not Sure]

Honest question - why do we care about the ranking in USNWR?

I would accept a much lower academic ranking if it meant that CU was more unified, more affordable, and more accessible for more people to gain an education.

It’s a benchmark by which we are compared to our peers. Why do we care about our standing compared to our peers? Well, that’s a different question I suppose.

 

[LesGrossman]

Y’all are arguing about an intentionally obscure and arcane accounting practice which ultimately means little.

If the school wants to win it can win. All it takes is a leader to make it happen. Hopefully Big Salmon is the guy to do it. I’m skeptical, but hopeful

 

[GoBuffs08]

This just simply isn’t true. Check the budgets for the years not impacted by Covid. The AD has a $90MM budget and generally stays within that budget.

This is correct. I believe the year before COVID CU had around $90MM in revenue and their budget ended up being around $87MM.