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New "Clear Bag" Policy at Folsom

It wasn't THAT long ago that getting into a CU game was fast, even in the 20 minutes leading up to kickoff. Then, one year with Bohn, something changed and the lines outside the gate became simply ridiculous.

Let's go back about 7 years and do whatever we were doing then.
 
dio said:
It wasn't THAT long ago that getting into a CU game was fast, even in the 20 minutes leading up to kickoff. Then, one year with Bohn, something changed and the lines outside the gate became simply ridiculous.

Let's go back about 7 years and do whatever we were doing then.
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This.
 
dio said:
It wasn't THAT long ago that getting into a CU game was fast, even in the 20 minutes leading up to kickoff. Then, one year with Bohn, something changed and the lines outside the gate became simply ridiculous.

Let's go back about 7 years and do whatever we were doing then.
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Is that when they started wanding people with metal detectors and searching bags? I personally would like to see everyone wanded. Don't need Assault Rifles getting into Folsom. Recruiting would deteriorate quickly IMO.
 
buffaholic said:
Is that when they started wanding people with metal detectors and searching bags? I personally would like to see everyone wanded. Don't need Assault Rifles getting into Folsom. Recruiting would deteriorate quickly IMO.
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Yeah, we have seen that so many times....now this discussion has gone ridiculous. What, pray tell, would Argus personnel do? They would call the cops, so why do we need them to keep the scourge of assault rifles out of Folsom? The idea a bunch of minimum wage seasonal workers are going to increase security is laughable.
 
leftybuff said:
Yeah, we have seen that so many times....now this discussion has gone ridiculous. What, pray tell, would Argus personnel do? They would call the cops, so why do we need them to keep the scourge of assault rifles out of Folsom? The idea a bunch of minimum wage seasonal workers are going to increase security is laughable.
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I was once one of those Argus guys working the South gates, and I can confirm that I, and all the guys next to me, did not give a ****.
 
J.R. Ewing said:
I was once one of those Argus guys working the South gates, and I can confirm that I, and all the guys next to me, did not give a ****.
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I had friends who worked Argus security at the Broncos games in years past. They had the same attitude. They did the minimum of what they were told. Given what they told me they were being paid, they were not about to stick their neck out on anything. So what do they accomplish? The appearance of doing something. Security theater. Oh, and customer inconvenience. You can't forget that.
 
I usually have a messenger bag with me just because I think it's really convenient and I don't have to worry if I want to buy something. Keeps my hands free also and I hate having stuff in my pockets. Absolutely ridiculous decision.

And Dio is bang on when he says that college games are far more family friendly than pro games.
 
buffaholic said:
The longer waits at Bronco's games are due to more thorough security checking, not because they now have clear bags.

The use of clear bags makes it easier to check, and also discourages people from bringing in unnecessary items. Both of which will reduce the time to check, compared to backpacks and large purses packed to the gills. But I will not be surprised if it takes longer to get in, due to the heightened security.

The alternative to having Argus perform this is what exactly? Do away with it completely?
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"To provide a safer environment for the public and significantly expedite fan entry into stadiums, NFL teams have implemented an NFL policy this year that limits the size and type of bags that may be brought into stadiums." That is paragraph 1 of the NFL clear bag policy. http://www.nfl.com/qs/allclear/index.jsp

The opposite has happened since they implemented that policy. The lines and waits have grown longer. Games regularly start with many empty seats because of those lines.

The NFL has had this policy for 3 years now I believe. I don't think it is irrational of me to want to see some sort of analysis of the data from that period that gives reasoning to additional roll out to other events/sports/stadiums. How has it worked? What positive outcomes have we seen that would be beneficial at other venues? What have been the drawbacks? How has the stated goal of expediting fan entry been met, and if it hasn't, what things can be changed to steer toward that goal?

I'm not saying that they should do away with screening, but do a better job of it. Put in walkthrough metal detectors for primary screening. Wand just the people who are screened out during the walkthroughs as a secondary measure. Have more efficient signage to designate which lines people without bags should go through for expedited entry. For people who have to bring a bag into the stadium, don't restrict them to a particular size/color/material, just efficiently send them to specific, properly manned entry points where thorough screenings of the contents can be done. Argus can manage to do that right if they are set up for success. Instead, you have a cattle call out in front of the stadium right before the game starts where 82 different lines form and merge and diverge without any real organization until you get into a particular barricade chute. Why can't they put signage above those chutes to direct people appropriately? Wouldn't that be a more efficient way?

Also, the size limitation of the clear plastic bags isn't going to make screening any easier because the bags will just be fuller. The screeners are still going to end up asking those people to open their bags and remove items until they can see through to the bottom of the bag.

The fallacy is calling this heightened security. It isn't that. It is heightened alert. At the southwest entrance to Folsom on gameday where I usually enter, there are about half a dozen uniformed police officers standing inside the perimeter who are there to provide security, protection from harm. There are 60 or so Argus personnel scanning tickets, looking through bags, and wanding people, they are there to be an alert. They aren't equipped to do anything if there is a problem aside from warning the police officers and/or a supervisor. If there was a real problem, by the time the problem arrives at the feet of the Argus personnel, it is already far too late.

Look, all I'm really saying here is that there are a lot better ways of handling safety and security at sporting events than just issuing the same clear bag policy that the NFL has without looking into whether or not that policy means or does anything other than irritate your paying customers. There is already question about the ulterior motives of the NFL in launching this plan ($$$), so I think it is healthy to question whether or not it is beneficial rather than just accepting it because "safety." I'm frustrated because I don't believe CU did any due diligence here in researching the issue. They are just accepting the trend because that is the easy thing to do. I'd be really pleased to find out I'm wrong on that, they did do the research, and that their findings are that it really makes a difference so they adopted it.
 
A backpack is convenient, You can put it over your shoulder and still have your hands free to carry your seat cushion (at the NFL stadium you don't need a seat cushion). I also would put in things like a pair of gloves, a stocking hat, a hoody, and a rain poncho - along with binoculars and a radio (although the time delay on the radio has killed that). Also I would put in some food (peanuts, jerky, fruit snacks). It will be difficult to do with the new policy, and if Mile High is an example, the wait times could be horrible (of course with recent attendance it might not be too bad).

The NFL has seen attendance decline steadily over the past several years - there are multiple factors which cause this but I would think the hassle factor has to be included as an impact.
 
BuffaloSoldier76 said:
"To provide a safer environment for the public and significantly expedite fan entry into stadiums, NFL teams have implemented an NFL policy this year that limits the size and type of bags that may be brought into stadiums." That is paragraph 1 of the NFL clear bag policy. http://www.nfl.com/qs/allclear/index.jsp

The opposite has happened since they implemented that policy. The lines and waits have grown longer. Games regularly start with many empty seats because of those lines.
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So the clear bags are causing longer lines?
 
buffaholic said:
So the clear bags are causing longer lines?
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Because you must have read just through there and then TL;DR'd the rest...
"Also, the size limitation of the clear plastic bags isn't going to make screening any easier because the bags will just be fuller. The screeners are still going to end up asking those people to open their bags and remove items until they can see through to the bottom of the bag."
 
I'm pretty sure that increased security is causing the longer lines, not the bags....

We fall on two different sides of the issue. I think a large sporting event is a prime target for terrorists. The line of people at gate xyz is nothing compared to 50,000 people. You are more concerned with lines and inconvenience.
 
buffaholic said:
I'm pretty sure that increased security is causing the longer lines, not the bags....

We fall on two different sides of the issue. I think a large sporting event is a prime target for terrorists. The line of people at gate xyz is nothing compared to 50,000 people. You are more concerned with lines and inconvenience.
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If you are a fan of, as leftybuff termed it, "security theater", more power to you. I've tried to explain to you that giving minimum wage Argus workers clearer sight lines into bags isn't going to do anything to improve your security inside or outside a game. They're just going to keep stripping more and more of your privacy and freedom away in the name of safety that doesn't make you any more safe.
 
buffaholic said:
I'm pretty sure that increased security is causing the longer lines, not the bags....

We fall on two different sides of the issue. I think a large sporting event is a prime target for terrorists. The line of people at gate xyz is nothing compared to 50,000 people. You are more concerned with lines and inconvenience.
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The gate is where the largest amount of people are most tightly packed. 50k people spread out over an entire stadium aren't all in a blast radius. Your arguments sound like you're trolling, but I don't think you're meaning to.
 
BuffaloSoldier76 said:
If you are a fan of, as leftybuff termed it, "security theater", more power to you. I've tried to explain to you that giving minimum wage Argus workers clearer sight lines into bags isn't going to do anything to improve your security inside or outside a game. They're just going to keep stripping more and more of your privacy and freedom away in the name of safety that doesn't make you any more safe.
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your solution?
 
Jens1893 said:
I usually have a messenger bag with me just because I think it's really convenient and I don't have to worry if I want to buy something. Keeps my hands free also and I hate having stuff in my pockets. Absolutely ridiculous decision.

And Dio is bang on when he says that college games are far more family friendly than pro games.
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seinfeld.png
 
Stupid stupid stupid.

It would be nice if they could specifically identify the specific reason this policy is going to go into effect. Instead of bullshitting the fan base with the vanillia statement of general saftey, efficency and "improved fan experience". Is there an issue of contraband entering the stadium, long wait lines for bag checks specifically, or a ploy to increase stadium revenue (not that I expect an admittance there)? My hunch is stupid Argus is behind this. Otherwise why can there be no compromise to this policy, like if you wish to take a backpack or non clear bag there is an alternate admission line. An all or nothing stance here will only be detrimental to the game day experience and IMO create a cluster **** in the pre game.
 
Just like to point out that the one major stadium event to be attacked by terrorists in the last several years occurred outside the stadium, in the crowds of people waiting to get in.

But yeah, making those crowds/lines longer is a good idea.
 
AeroBuff99 said:
Dumb policy. It is the most anti family policy you can have. The sole purpose is to increase sales inside the stadium. It has nothing to do with safety.
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This is a cheap money grab. It's disappointing that they think we are that stupid. George wonders why attendance is down. Your head coach can't win and you make it difficult for customers to consume your product.
 
CU getting blasted on FB for the new policy.

Also, there will be a season ticket holder appreciation event on Sunday August 28th between 1-3pm. Meet and greet with coaches and players, tour the champions center, and get a free clear tote bag.
 
As skibum points out, attacks at sporting events have happened at the softest target, where all the people queu up to get in. Somebody else pointed out the blast radius of most devices is not going to cover a real large area in the arena itself.

So what is the solution? The same one I would suggest for airports. If you really think there is a terrorist threat, simple metal detectors en masse. Move people through, fast, so they don't bunch up. Have trained police officers in uniform liberally spread around the entrances (you know guys and gals who actually have some real training and know hat they are doing, coupled with the ability to actually address a threat). Bomb sniffing dogs. That would actually be effective.

OTOH, it would be expensive. So they hire a bunch low wage "security" folks, institute a bunch of low cost policies like clear baggies, that cost very little and have the nice ancillary benefit of guaranteeing sales of more concessions since it restricts what people can bring in. Watch the concession prices go up, guaranteed.
 
buffaholic said:
I'm pretty sure that increased security is causing the longer lines, not the bags....

We fall on two different sides of the issue. I think a large sporting event is a prime target for terrorists. The line of people at gate xyz is nothing compared to 50,000 people. You are more concerned with lines and inconvenience.
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From what I have seen since the Broncos have implemented the clear bag policy, it's not the clear bags or bags getting fuller that is causing the slowdown getting into the stadium. It's the policy itself. I cannot tell you how many times I have arrived at the front of the security line to see multiple people being told that they cannot bring in their purse, backpack, etc. and having that person argue or debate about what to do with their bag while everyone else waits behind them.

The bottom line is that i strongly suspect you'll see the same thing at Folsom and Coors this year.

i also have an issue with the timing of this announcement- they missed a MAJOR opportunity to include this announcement in the football season ticket packets. Face it- there is a large portion of even season ticket-holders that will have missed this announcement and that first game against Idaho State is going to be hell to get into.
 
They really, really need to have an alternate entry for folks like that.

If you want the stupid policy, fine. But be smart enough to offer an alternative. That's how you pull something like this off. I sincerely hope somebody in the AD is reading this.
 
I think it's clear that due diligence has to be done, for both safety and liability (there must be exposure if the university doesn't implement "standard" precautions). Also, as we see threats increase, we have to be proactive - no one wants to have a terrorist event force a solution. But despite all this and earlier sarcasm, I believe college football is Americana, and should encourage rather than discourage family attendance. Hopefully the school is looking at some of the suggestions here, like the TSA-style gate. You could even have a gate just for backpacks for people willing to wait for a thorough search.
 
zbuff said:
I think it's clear that due diligence has to be done, for both safety and liability (there must be exposure if the university doesn't implement "standard" precautions). Also, as we see threats increase, we have to be proactive - no one wants to have a terrorist event force a solution. But despite all this and earlier sarcasm, I believe college football is Americana, and should encourage rather than discourage family attendance. Hopefully the school is looking at some of the suggestions here, like the TSA-style gate. You could even have a gate just for backpacks for people willing to wait for a thorough search.
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There is an idea that makes sense.
 
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