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NEW: Regents Meeting, Benson Decision, Investigation Report -- Monday, 6/12

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Standard of conduct? You're trolling a CU fan site. Your standard is loud and clear.
I am actually not trolling. You can have a dissenting opinion and not be a troll. I have attended all spring games in the MM era and as many home games as I could afford. I am a CU Buff fan, which you can be, and still question the people in the program.
I have been called a troll. I have been told that I lack comprehension skills. I have been jumped on when making valid points because they are all negated if I don't use the word "elevated" instead of "promoted". You assume that your posts make me unhappy when all along I have said that a healthy, intelligent debate is good for all. No name calling. No attacks on MM or RG or anyone on here. I see it differently and not once have I felt the slightest bit unhappy or upset by opinions that differ from mine.

Nik, what do I think should happen?
I think if the facts are proven to be as stated in the SI story...
PD needs to be terminated. He helped establish the OIEC and didn't call them as he sat misinterpreting the guidelines because he was so "confused". I simply do not believe him. His first press release talked about not knowing until Dec 30. That is not true. Why has he nor anyone else answered a very simple question....if you have enough insight to decide as a group to never commubicate to the victim again and you 3 meet and all decide to elevate Tunpkin, but tell him you cannot name him interim because of the allegations and RG can have phone calls with Banashek right before he calls the victim on Dec 15th......why couldn't any of these men (all trained responsible parties) in any of these discussions, pick up the phone and ask OIEC about this confusing issue of a man MM believed was dangerous coaching and recruiting on campus? One call. Clearly, there were numerous conversations. They now say "we should have". Why didn't you?

Which leads to RG and MM. If they followed PD's instructions and nothing more, then only PD should be fired. Everyone saying MM reported to his supervisor like he was supposed to continue to state that incorrectly. It doesn't matter how many times you are shown that MM was required to report to OIEC. Period. If anyone has a link that shows that responsible parties shall report to their supervisor, then please include it. Otherwise, we will be the in the same cyclical conversation.

I think that the delay has been because the SI story is not the scope of this investigation. This is only conjecture, obviously. However, if it was established that as with this case there are others (named in SI) that follow the same playbook (athlete/coach gets in trouble. It's not reported to anyone but Banashek. He then offers payments, etc to the victims and charges are dropped) then whomever is the conduit for this connection between program/attorney/victim would be responsible for his or her role in executing the playbook in these scenarios.
I hope the report shows that it was only due to a misunderstanding of procedure. I am just not one of the people who believes that based on a lot of reasons....RG's statement on Jan 6 and PD's on Feb 3, for starters.
That is my opinion. I am sure that all of our questions/assumptions/speculations will be answered soon. I expect there to be surprises and twists that even 16 pages of message boards haven't addressed.
I understand and respect our differences, however, it really bothers me to read attacks on the victim.
As I told you yesterday, Nik. I appreciate the intelligent discourse with the understanding that we will probably not find much of a common ground on this issue. I hope that at the very least, we agree that victim shaming is disgusting and that honesty and transparency are always best when looking into really difficult situations.

Troll out.
 
I am actually not trolling. You can have a dissenting opinion and not be a troll. I have attended all spring games in the MM era and as many home games as I could afford. I am a CU Buff fan, which you can be, and still question the people in the program.
I have been called a troll. I have been told that I lack comprehension skills. I have been jumped on when making valid points because they are all negated if I don't use the word "elevated" instead of "promoted". You assume that your posts make me unhappy when all along I have said that a healthy, intelligent debate is good for all. No name calling. No attacks on MM or RG or anyone on here. I see it differently and not once have I felt the slightest bit unhappy or upset by opinions that differ from mine.

Nik, what do I think should happen?
I think if the facts are proven to be as stated in the SI story...
PD needs to be terminated. He helped establish the OIEC and didn't call them as he sat misinterpreting the guidelines because he was so "confused". I simply do not believe him. His first press release talked about not knowing until Dec 30. That is not true. Why has he nor anyone else answered a very simple question....if you have enough insight to decide as a group to never commubicate to the victim again and you 3 meet and all decide to elevate Tunpkin, but tell him you cannot name him interim because of the allegations and RG can have phone calls with Banashek right before he calls the victim on Dec 15th......why couldn't any of these men (all trained responsible parties) in any of these discussions, pick up the phone and ask OIEC about this confusing issue of a man MM believed was dangerous coaching and recruiting on campus? One call. Clearly, there were numerous conversations. They now say "we should have". Why didn't you?

Which leads to RG and MM. If they followed PD's instructions and nothing more, then only PD should be fired. Everyone saying MM reported to his supervisor like he was supposed to continue to state that incorrectly. It doesn't matter how many times you are shown that MM was required to report to OIEC. Period. If anyone has a link that shows that responsible parties shall report to their supervisor, then please include it. Otherwise, we will be the in the same cyclical conversation.

I think that the delay has been because the SI story is not the scope of this investigation. This is only conjecture, obviously. However, if it was established that as with this case there are others (named in SI) that follow the same playbook (athlete/coach gets in trouble. It's not reported to anyone but Banashek. He then offers payments, etc to the victims and charges are dropped) then whomever is the conduit for this connection between program/attorney/victim would be responsible for his or her role in executing the playbook in these scenarios.
I hope the report shows that it was only due to a misunderstanding of procedure. I am just not one of the people who believes that based on a lot of reasons....RG's statement on Jan 6 and PD's on Feb 3, for starters.
That is my opinion. I am sure that all of our questions/assumptions/speculations will be answered soon. I expect there to be surprises and twists that even 16 pages of message boards haven't addressed.
I understand and respect our differences, however, it really bothers me to read attacks on the victim.
As I told you yesterday, Nik. I appreciate the intelligent discourse with the understanding that we will probably not find much of a common ground on this issue. I hope that at the very least, we agree that victim shaming is disgusting and that honesty and transparency are always best when looking into really difficult situations.

Troll out.

Thanks.

Regarding Phil D -- I think that if the report is ugly for him (i.e., if it's found that he messed up in an inexcusable way), he'll choose to retire at the end of the school year.

Regarding RG & MM -- I think where we disagree here is on the reporting it to a superior thing. Most people don't read the employee HR manual. It's really far outside of what people roll out of the rack in the morning thinking of as the job they have to perform. No one, I hope, would expect those guys to be well versed in the university policies or their personal responsibilities. MM reported up to RG and RG reported up to PD. Apparently, PD said to them that there wasn't an OIEC reporting requirement in this case. As I've said, if this was a wrong decision by PD (sounds like it was), I don't find fault with MM and RG for that. I don't see anything more than additional training on OIEC procedure being implemented as a result.

Regarding "victim shaming" -- I haven't seen that, but please point it out if it anyone comes close to saying that she asked for it on the alleged abuse. There will be no tolerance for that. There will also be no tolerance for trying to tear her down because she reported, thus causing a black eye for CU. However, I would say that if there are questions or inconsistencies with what she said or did during the reporting process then that stuff has to be fair game within the discussion -- and within that, reasonable criticism must be respectful of her and understanding of the fact that it would be completely normal and proper for her to be emotional and confused about the situation. (And if in the end JT is exonerated on these charges, that would justifiably open up a whole other level of criticism).

P.S. So I'm clear on the "troll" comments, I don't think you are. I think reasonable people can disagree on what the limited facts we have suggest is the truth. I think reasonable people can disagree on what is a reasonable outcome of different hypotheticals on where the evidence may take this. And, on that note, I want to make it clear that I've been trying very hard to look at this through the lens of my work career instead of the emotional reaction I may have as a CU fan. My opinions on this, other than "damn, CU stepped on its dick again", have been 100% what I think of this situation outside of what I may think of the people involved, outside the fact that it's CU instead of some other institution, and outside of whatever I personally think is football's role/importance within a university. Where my opinions are most limited, I believe, is that I'm not a legal expert, I don't have a direct background in HR or victim's advocacy, and I have never worked for a non-profit or government agency. So I think of this within the framework of "what if a sales rep's wife or girlfriend called me to tell me that they were no longer together and that the sales rep working for me was abusive during their relationship?". And what I know to do is to empathize, confirm that she is safe, and have a conversation with my superior along the lines of "we have a situation - what am I supposed to do?".
 
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Someone enables this behavior for two years, fools the police & the abuser's employers, and in the end informs the abuser's boss but requests that he do nothing. Mac was put in an impossible position. Rick reacted with anger but was told by his bosses to wait and do nothing. Its all b.s.

Enough!

Calling her an enabler and saying that she "fooled" the police and MM, RG and PD is victim shaming. I believe Tumpkin resigning, signing a PPO, producing enough evidence for 5 felonies and 3 misdemeanors and then having her story scrutinized for weeks with two highly trained investigators is a pretty good indication that she isn't fooling anyone. If you write that an abused woman is an enabler and then say she fooled everyone....then you are blaming her and calling her a liar. I think that is so far below the line of decency for a debate on policy.
 
At what point does Benson say "I've seen enough. This is the deal ..."

It's disappointing to relegate decisions to outside legal counsel and have everyone waiting for the written report to be completed, discussed some more by regents, and then processed through Denver's media meat grinder some more.

What is the president for, if not to step forward at time like this, tell us like it is, set expectations, indicate how he and the regents plan to resolve this issue and move on.

Thoughts on the appropriate repercussions. Could be as simple as a policy update and training. Could be an annual salary freeze or a suspension of specific bonus eligibility for specific leaders. Why assume anyone should be fired at this point?
 
Calling her an enabler and saying that she "fooled" the police and MM, RG and PD is victim shaming. I believe Tumpkin resigning, signing a PPO, producing enough evidence for 5 felonies and 3 misdemeanors and then having her story scrutinized for weeks with two highly trained investigators is a pretty good indication that she isn't fooling anyone. If you write that an abused woman is an enabler and then say she fooled everyone....then you are blaming her and calling her a liar. I think that is so far below the line of decency for a debate on policy.


Were you blacked out yesterday when you made the same post?
 
Were you blacked out yesterday when you made the same post?
Apparently, I was blacked out because if I had been conscious, I would have never said something so heinous about an abused woman. Can you share with me the post i made calling the victim an enabler and a liar since I do not recall saying anything even close to that?
 
Apparently, I was blacked out because if I had been conscious, I would have never said something so heinous about an abused woman. Can you share with me the post i made calling the victim an enabler and a liar since I do not recall saying anything even close to that?

People like you who flail around assigning blame to those who committed no crime are tiresome. I didn't get past the 1st sentence in either of your responses to the same post.
 
Where are you getting "interim DC" from? Where do you get "promotion" from? Being given more and different responsibilities when your group is down a man is not a promotion. If you were told in your job that your department manager had quit and for the weeks until a replacement was hired you would have to take on more responsibility for the same pay while getting no assurances that you're in line for that job... would you call it a promotion?

All I ever saw MM say on it was that with JL gone that Clark would coach the entire secondary while JT would take the LBs and would do the playcalling. I remember the media trying to call JT an interim DC or play it up as an audition, but I can't remember MM calling him an "interim DC" and also that he nipped the "audition" talk in the bud when asked about it.

I think you're conflating media and fan speculation & characterizations of the situation with the actuality of the situation.

Link: http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_30777871/cu-chancellor-ad-okd-allowing-joe-tumpkin-coach
"With no official documents in hand from a court or an investigation by police, we felt we were not in a position to take any personnel action," said CU spokeswoman Deborah Mendez Wilson. "Rick George updates the chancellor on personnel issues and decisions routinely in their bimonthly meetings. The decision on who was going to call plays was made by Coach MacIntyre, and Rick George supported that decision."

Tumpkin received a $15,000 bonus for coaching in the bowl game, but CU said he did not receive any change in salary or a promotion to interim defensive coordinator despite being assigned defensive playcalling duties.

"We made it clear that we were not going to elevate him due to the allegations, but allow him to do playcalling at the game," Mendez Wilson said.

Semantics won't get your butt off in court and it sure as hell ain't gonna get your ass off up in Boulder. Seeing as how you seem to be a special kinda clueless let me help you out with this one son. The coach who calls the defensive plays is know as the....wait for it....defensive coordinator.
 
Semantics won't get your butt off in court and it sure as hell ain't gonna get your ass off up in Boulder. Seeing as how you seem to be a special kinda clueless let me help you out with this one son. The coach who calls the defensive plays is know as the....wait for it....defensive coordinator.
daily-afternoon-randomness-49-photos-27.gif
 
Apparently, I was blacked out because if I had been conscious, I would have never said something so heinous about an abused woman. Can you share with me the post i made calling the victim an enabler and a liar since I do not recall saying anything even close to that?

The irony here is that it was Bombay that made that post calling her an enabler and a liar and implying she made MacIntyre the victim in this story.
 
If you see 1,2,3 and 4 as a "whole lot of nothing", then we have very different standards of conduct towards the people we pay millions of dollars to and put in charge of leading young men.
To me, it is a whole lot of something and will be incredibly sad to me that a man with a wife and daughter treated an abused woman this way. To me, it's unconscionable. To you, it's nothing. We will not agree on this.

Seeing as your new here Buffalo1 let me help you understand buffnik's MO. A couple of years ago there was a kid who had brain cancer. His local football team dressed him up for the spring game, put him in for a play. He ran 50 yards for a td. The team rushes out, throws him up in the air, the sold out crowd is on it's feet going nuts. Real heartwarming, bring a tear to your eye kinda sh**. Buffing, along with a bunch of other ab losers, preceded to make fun of this kid. Why you ask? Well the uniform was red and white and the helmet had an N on it(gotta say my hatred of Nebraska died that day. Still don't like 'em). Then there was the whole ped state should get off on a technicality cause the ncaa didn't have the foresight to make raping kids against it's bylaws thing. A little easier for you to understand the "whole lot of nothing" comment now.
 
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Seeing as your new here Buffalo1 let me help you understand buffnik's MO. A couple of years ago there was a kid who had brain cancer. His local football team dressed him up for the spring game, put him in for a play. He ran 50 yards for a td. The team rushes out, throws him up in the air, the sold out crowd is on it's feet going nuts. Real heartwarming, bring a tear to your eye kinda sh**. Buffing, along with a bunch of other ab losers, preceded to make fun of this kid. Why you ask? Well the uniform was red and white and the helmet had an N on it(gotta say my hatred of Nebraska died that day. Still don't like 'em). Then there was the whole ped state should get off on a technicality cause the no didn't have the foresight to make raping kids against it's bylaws thing. A little easier for you to understand the "whole lot of nothing" comment now.
You should keep posting
 
Here's a fun little mental exercise for everyone to play whenever dear old CU sh**'s the bed and your wondering what the right thing to do is. Insert ****bailer for CU.
 

I'm serious, btw. I know we disagreed on the PSU thing, but only inasmuch as I don't believe the NCAA or the Big Ten have any jurisdiction over what was a legal matter that wasn't an actual infraction. This is why the NCAA backed down when challenged on it later on. I'm not sure yet on Baylor, though that looks like they may have been covering up to keep players eligible so maybe it's an NCAA thing. Probably a Title IX thing for the feds, though.

And in this case, I still haven't heard a case for how a potential procedural mistake by Phil D materially harmed anyone or even had the potential to do so. More, I don't know what MM or RG did that was wrong based on the facts we have so far.
 
I am actually not trolling. You can have a dissenting opinion and not be a troll. I have attended all spring games in the MM era and as many home games as I could afford. I am a CU Buff fan, which you can be, and still question the people in the program.
I have been called a troll. I have been told that I lack comprehension skills. I have been jumped on when making valid points because they are all negated if I don't use the word "elevated" instead of "promoted". You assume that your posts make me unhappy when all along I have said that a healthy, intelligent debate is good for all. No name calling. No attacks on MM or RG or anyone on here. I see it differently and not once have I felt the slightest bit unhappy or upset by opinions that differ from mine.

Nik, what do I think should happen?
I think if the facts are proven to be as stated in the SI story...
PD needs to be terminated. He helped establish the OIEC and didn't call them as he sat misinterpreting the guidelines because he was so "confused". I simply do not believe him. His first press release talked about not knowing until Dec 30. That is not true. Why has he nor anyone else answered a very simple question....if you have enough insight to decide as a group to never commubicate to the victim again and you 3 meet and all decide to elevate Tunpkin, but tell him you cannot name him interim because of the allegations and RG can have phone calls with Banashek right before he calls the victim on Dec 15th......why couldn't any of these men (all trained responsible parties) in any of these discussions, pick up the phone and ask OIEC about this confusing issue of a man MM believed was dangerous coaching and recruiting on campus? One call. Clearly, there were numerous conversations. They now say "we should have". Why didn't you?

Which leads to RG and MM. If they followed PD's instructions and nothing more, then only PD should be fired. Everyone saying MM reported to his supervisor like he was supposed to continue to state that incorrectly. It doesn't matter how many times you are shown that MM was required to report to OIEC. Period. If anyone has a link that shows that responsible parties shall report to their supervisor, then please include it. Otherwise, we will be the in the same cyclical conversation.

I think that the delay has been because the SI story is not the scope of this investigation. This is only conjecture, obviously. However, if it was established that as with this case there are others (named in SI) that follow the same playbook (athlete/coach gets in trouble. It's not reported to anyone but Banashek. He then offers payments, etc to the victims and charges are dropped) then whomever is the conduit for this connection between program/attorney/victim would be responsible for his or her role in executing the playbook in these scenarios.
I hope the report shows that it was only due to a misunderstanding of procedure. I am just not one of the people who believes that based on a lot of reasons....RG's statement on Jan 6 and PD's on Feb 3, for starters.
That is my opinion. I am sure that all of our questions/assumptions/speculations will be answered soon. I expect there to be surprises and twists that even 16 pages of message boards haven't addressed.
I understand and respect our differences, however, it really bothers me to read attacks on the victim.
As I told you yesterday, Nik. I appreciate the intelligent discourse with the understanding that we will probably not find much of a common ground on this issue. I hope that at the very least, we agree that victim shaming is disgusting and that honesty and transparency are always best when looking into really difficult situations.

Troll out.
tl;dr, pretty sure it's nothing new
Your only posts as far as I can tell are in this thread, at least I didn't see you before then. And the points you're making are incredibly weak. So I'm not buying it. But then, I have a low tolerance for your type. Goodbye, troll.
 
Seeing as your new here Buffalo1 let me help you understand buffnik's MO. A couple of years ago there was a kid who had brain cancer. His local football team dressed him up for the spring game, put him in for a play. He ran 50 yards for a td. The team rushes out, throws him up in the air, the sold out crowd is on it's feet going nuts. Real heartwarming, bring a tear to your eye kinda sh**. Buffing, along with a bunch of other ab losers, preceded to make fun of this kid. Why you ask? Well the uniform was red and white and the helmet had an N on it(gotta say my hatred of Nebraska died that day. Still don't like 'em). Then there was the whole ped state should get off on a technicality cause the ncaa didn't have the foresight to make raping kids against it's bylaws thing. A little easier for you to understand the "whole lot of nothing" comment now.

Here's a fun little mental exercise for everyone to play whenever dear old CU sh**'s the bed and your wondering what the right thing to do is. Insert ****bailer for CU.

WTF? I have been around more than 10 years and have no idea what the hell you are driveling on about. Welcome back I guess. Your hole to claustrophobic for ya?
 
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A lot of experts in here supposedly. If Phil needs to go, so be it. RG and MMac shouldn't be fired, that's a ****ing joke. Fix the damn policy, make it known to the staff about what action to take in situations, then end this bull****.
 
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