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WSU QB Hilinski dead in apparent suicide

You can probably blame prep and pre-prep coaching. Lack of emphasizing fundamentals rather than "highlight reel" hits.

I could have had CTE long before I ever put on a football helmet. My brother gave me the my first solid concussion when I was about 10 by dropping me on my head and knocking me out. I know I had a bunch of other times when I took shots to the head as well.

The coaching did impact it. My early coaches taught us to lead with the head, to use the helmet as a weapon. That part of coaching is now changing a lot.
 
I could have had CTE long before I ever put on a football helmet. My brother gave me the my first solid concussion when I was about 10 by dropping me on my head and knocking me out. I know I had a bunch of other times when I took shots to the head as well.

The coaching did impact it. My early coaches taught us to lead with the head, to use the helmet as a weapon. That part of coaching is now changing a lot.
Every one of my coaches, from 4th grade through high school, would have yanked you (anyone on the team) off of the field. Lots of laps for that transgression.
 
Every one of my coaches, from 4th grade through high school, would have yanked you (anyone on the team) off of the field. Lots of laps for that transgression.

Which shows the evolution of the game, I started to play in the early 70's, my coaches came out of the 50's and early 60's.
 
I don’t think the CTE issue is going anywhere. I would like to think that eventually we could make the game safe enough so that it’s no longer a problem. I’m not holding my breath, though.

Maybe we need to go back to leather helmets. It seems like a big part of the issue is guys using their helmet as a weapon.
 
I'm 52. No evolution there.

Might better say the transition. My coaches would say they were old school, yours seem to have been aware of the bigger picture.

By the time I was in high school we were hitting with the shoulders.
 
And a misrepresentation of the twitter thread I read.



If I missed it please provide a quote from the specific regent where she specifically says football needs to be abolished from the university entirely. Otherwise what is represented on twitter is a discussion about the risks it poses to the university. A thoughtful conversation to have.

We're talking about the Regent who recused herself from the vote on MacIntyre's salary to "get a drink of water" and spearheaded the attack on him and RG while completely supporting an OIEC that was covering its ass after completely failing in its responsibility to train employees of the AD and update their training after rules had changed. Her lapdog and compatriot on the board is Jack Kroll. They represent the single biggest threat to CU's athletic department.
 
I don’t think the CTE issue is going anywhere. I would like to think that eventually we could make the game safe enough so that it’s no longer a problem. I’m not holding my breath, though.

Maybe we need to go back to leather helmets. It seems like a big part of the issue is guys using their helmet as a weapon.
I think the next big finding is that you're going to see a ton of issue with soccer and the repeated micro-concussions from kids practicing headers, even as part of dribbling exercises.
 
Critical mass is coming. Either FB changes the game, or it doesn't survive. It will be a while getting here, but the trend is undeniable. The problem is, if you change the game too much, it starts to look like soccer, who wants that?
 
I think the next big finding is that you're going to see a ton of issue with soccer and the repeated micro-concussions from kids practicing headers, even as part of dribbling exercises.

The headers in soccer are an issue but the worst head injuries in soccer come from players heads colliding as they focus on the ball, elbows and other blows to the head as players jockey for position as well as players falling and hitting their heads against the ground.

Basketball has seen some brutal head injuries as leaping players are undercut and come down on their heads as well as the elbows to the head in the paint.
 
Critical mass is coming. Either FB changes the game, or it doesn't survive. It will be a while getting here, but the trend is undeniable. The problem is, if you change the game too much, it starts to look like soccer, who wants that?
Eh, think about how much the game has changed in the past 20 years, and how it's the most popular it's ever been today. I think this dramatic and noticeable change that everybody talks about is being overstated. If they change the rules to be non-contact (they won't), then I will say the end is near.
 
Eh, think about how much the game has changed in the past 20 years, and how it's the most popular it's ever been today. I think this dramatic and noticeable change that everybody talks about is being overstated. If they change the rules to be non-contact (they won't), then I will say the end is near.
You are kidding yourself.
 
The headers in soccer are an issue but the worst head injuries in soccer come from players heads colliding as they focus on the ball, elbows and other blows to the head as players jockey for position as well as players falling and hitting their heads against the ground.

Basketball has seen some brutal head injuries as leaping players are undercut and come down on their heads as well as the elbows to the head in the paint.
For the most part, it doesn't seem to be the concussions we diagnose that are the main problem. Those we can follow protocol and then medically retire a player if he/she has too many of these. What scares me is the undiagnosed micro concussions that occur every time we do something in sports that bounces our brains against the inside of our skulls but doesn't result in concussion symptoms at the time. This can occur dozens of times during a football or soccer practice.

In football, I think the next move will be to limit the number of practices in shells where they have their full helmets on. I think those will become practices with the 7on7 type helmets weighted to be like regular helmets so that guys aren't playing with hard shells very often at all. Maybe once a week during the season & spring practices. Side benefit of this is that players won't get trained to hit with their faces, but will learn to block by hand fighting and tackle in the rugby style. Once that happens to style of play, the hard shell helmets become extra protection when they go on (as they're intended to be) rather than becoming safety hazard weapons on the field.
 
For the most part, it doesn't seem to be the concussions we diagnose that are the main problem. Those we can follow protocol and then medically retire a player if he/she has too many of these. What scares me is the undiagnosed micro concussions that occur every time we do something in sports that bounces our brains against the inside of our skulls but doesn't result in concussion symptoms at the time. This can occur dozens of times during a football or soccer practice.

In football, I think the next move will be to limit the number of practices in shells where they have their full helmets on. I think those will become practices with the 7on7 type helmets weighted to be like regular helmets so that guys aren't playing with hard shells very often at all. Maybe once a week during the season & spring practices. Side benefit of this is that players won't get trained to hit with their faces, but will learn to block by hand fighting and tackle in the rugby style. Once that happens to style of play, the hard shell helmets become extra protection when they go on (as they're intended to be) rather than becoming safety hazard weapons on the field.
Perhaps the best thing the sport could do is implement rules where all practices are conducted using the 7v7 "helmets" and forcing players to routinely tackle without their heads (rugby style). You then get in the game that style of tackling becomes muscle memory and it actually works. As things are right now, players are being taught this technique, but it's not practiced in live action enough to make a difference on Saturdays/Sundays.
 
Critical mass is coming. Either FB changes the game, or it doesn't survive. It will be a while getting here, but the trend is undeniable. The problem is, if you change the game too much, it starts to look like soccer, who wants that?

How will the SEC schools justify their existence after that day has come and gone?
 
We always got told "lead with the screws", if they were coming downhill right at you. Otherwise, "get your head across" if it was at an angle. "Lead with the screws" meant put that part of the helmet right into their sternum and drive through. Only problem with that is the game is faster than a damn drill and you are still using your head to tackle. Also, it doesn't help if you are trying to square up a guy that weighs 30 or more pounds than you. As far as getting concussions completely out of the game, good luck with that. The ground causes just as many, if not more, than helmet to helmet. I'd think waivers are very popular these days.
 
Can you please elaborate on this supposed liability to the university?

Player A plays five years at CU, but never goes to the NFL. He ends up committing suicide and it’s revealed he has severe CTE (like the QB in the OP). Family sues CU (along with the PAC 12, NCAA, and anybody else they can think of), claiming his condition was caused by playing football. Whatever “waivers” he signed are brushed aside as a kid just wanting to follow his dream and play college football, or an obligation to take the scholarship because they couldn’t afford it otherwise, whatever. CU then is on the hook for a wrongful death verdict.
 
Player A plays five years at CU, but never goes to the NFL. He ends up committing suicide and it’s revealed he has severe CTE (like the QB in the OP). Family sues CU (along with the PAC 12, NCAA, and anybody else they can think of), claiming his condition was caused by playing football. Whatever “waivers” he signed are brushed aside as a kid just wanting to follow his dream and play college football, or an obligation to take the scholarship because they couldn’t afford it otherwise, whatever. CU then is on the hook for a wrongful death verdict.
Yeah. Whatever serious, legal waivers are signed are just brushed aside.
 
Can you please elaborate on this supposed liability to the university?
Liability for misdiagnosis, underdiagnosis. Liability for improper assessment/ evaluation.
Liability for returning to action too soon.
Liability for not using most up to date methods for diagnosis/treatment.
Liability for improper protocols, violations of protocol.
Liability for independent and confirming diagnosis.
Liability for ...

Read the case against the NFL. Many of the reasons why the NFL settled (absent denial) are at play for college football and the institutions where it is played.

I think it entirely within the purview of the Board of Regents at CU and all other institutions to consider the liability exposure of this matter.

Just my $0.02.
 
Well, I know I wasn't asked but, holding the university responsible for knowledge that's out there now seems pretty chicken**** to me. Anyway, I'll just leave it because it'll just cause a fight and I'm not looking for that.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e119325db87e
Tell me how. Seriously. As nik said, the popularity and participation may decline a bit, but saying the sport won't survive is dramatically overstating things.
The pool of players is already shrinking.

One successful lawsuit and school districts will run for cover. If that happens, FB becomes a club sport, adding another funnel to reduce participation.

A few examples:

http://chsaanow.com/2017-08-16/schools-dropped-football-teams-prior-2017-season/

https://www.apnews.com/66e699491a3b478293620c1e5069dc9e

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08...t-marin-high-school-to-drop-varsity-football/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e119325db87e

http://www.dailyherald.com/news/20171006/why-high-school-football-programs-are-losing-players-

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...iminate-football-after-2018-season/308796002/

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...e-football-program-end-2018-season/702796002/

I don't a have a cite, but Long Beach Poly dropped some of its HS teams because fo a lack of players.

When the pool drops, the sport will suffer. Will it die off completely? I don't know, but I would not be surprised. I suspect the NFL ratings drop is more than just what's his name taking a knee.
 
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Liability for misdiagnosis, underdiagnosis. Liability for improper assessment/ evaluation.
Liability for returning to action too soon.
Liability for not using most up to date methods for diagnosis/treatment.
Liability for improper protocols, violations of protocol.
Liability for independent and confirming diagnosis.
Liability for ...

Read the case against the NFL. Many of the reasons why the NFL settled (absent denial) are at play for college football and the institutions where it is played.

I think it entirely within the purview of the Board of Regents at CU and all other institutions to consider the liability exposure of this matter.

Just my $0.02.
Fair point on the returning to action too soon, improper diagnosis of concussions, etc. I guess I'm assuming most Universities and NFL teams will do what's necessary to avoid those things at all costs, and I also find it hard to believe an individual taking on a University, athletic conference or NCAA and trying to prove that an in-season protocol years earlier wasn't followed is going to be a tough thing to do.
 
Football may look different in 20 years but it will exist. We are already seeing a dramatic change in how it is coached and in the rules to reduce head injuries, there will be more changes to come.

If you are going to talk about head injuries in football then you have to recognize that while football is more dangerous it is far from the only sport in which the risk of head injuries exist. Lots of people say "I won't let my kid play football because I don't want them getting hurt. He can be a soccer player."

So something like this didn't happen
https://sports.yahoo.com/world-cup-...-causes-traumatic-brain-injury-190108282.html

The realities are that if we are going to have sport we are going to have some risk. The question is not eliminating risk but managing it. I knew a guy many years back who was rock climbing and ended up pulling a large rock down on his head. Fortunately he was wearing a helmet which he normally didn't do while climbing and only got hurt instead of killed.

We will see changes to football and there will be fewer head injuries but the risk will always be there and people will see play and watch the game.

Research on CTE is ongoing. We don't know how many players get CTE, what types of contact causes CTE nor how much of the regular population has CTE...but those answers will come in the next decade. The data could still go several ways, but if CTE is especially widespread in football players at an early age and is caused by all forcible contacts, then that science will win out eventually. There will be way too much political pressure and liability issues to continue it as a college sport regardless how big a deal football is

I'd hate to see it happen, but if the coming data turns out that way then I'd just have to belly up to it.

Now we could end up with flag football...but I think that is the same thing as football dying.
 
I think the next big finding is that you're going to see a ton of issue with soccer and the repeated micro-concussions from kids practicing headers, even as part of dribbling exercises.

Thing is you could ban headers and the game would be nearly the same. Can't ban hitting in football.
 
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