CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[#1 pick]

You’re viewing things through a 2023 lens. The B1G and SEC are going to control the entire sport and its postseason at some point, unless something drastic happens. They aren’t going to allow teams from weak conferences to get auto bids into the playoff like it’s currently set up starting in 2024. As soon as they shut down the auto bids, you think the Pac 10, Big 12 or ACC are getting any more than one team in the CFP if that?

Even if they get two from the ACC and Big XII because of ESPN. The PAC might as well be out of mind, out of sight.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Someone is going to need to explain to me what the hell UCONN brings to the Big12 that adds value.

 

[#1 pick]

Someone is going to need to explain to me what the hell UCONN brings to the Big12 that adds value.

NY media nearby

Great Basketball

ESPN wants the ACC to stick together at all cost to the chagrin of the powerhouses like Clemson, UNC, and FSU.

Basically ESPN

ESPN runs the Big XII

 

[PAC MAN]

I spoke to a couple closely connected to Washington and Oregon as well as a couple Big XII guys who are extremely connected which are affiliated with some of the guys like Monty and the SicEm365.

My Washington contact, she's selling but the Oregon contact is saying realistically, the B1G aren't in position to add schools right now and even if we are first in line, when will that line be open and B1G are making it clear, it might not be addressed for years. Like SDSU, they are in a bit of a time crunch and they don't want to play games that's mainly not on ESPN/ABC/FOX. They continue to say it's mainly the non-football sports that will suffer the most.

Washington doesn't care, they don't want to go to the Big XII and will just wait out their invite to the B1G even if it doesn't come for years. But my Washington contact swares it's coming this year. My Oregon contact says they aren't as confident in that but they do believe it will come at some point and don't mind getting out of any contract early if the opportunity knocks for the B1G or SEC.

The Big XII contacts been telling me this but the ADs and Presidents for the PAC have been either non committal or selling and the Big XII guys were right. I don't know whatelse to say. Based on what the Big XII guys are telling me, none of the Presidents want to leave the PAC but that TV deal can force many to want out.

Washington, Washington St, Oregon State, Stanford, and Cal are going nowhere. Both believe the corner schools will come and they believe SDSU will as well. Fresno wants to go to either conference but they aren't high on either chart and based on the teams that are left, academics will be CRITICAL. Do not be shocked if an Ivy or two or three joins the new PAC. This was brought up by my Oregon guy who said there are interest in east coast schools with elite academics. The direction is a lot different than what Oregon wants if it stays.

One more thing to bite on. ESPN doesn't want the ACC to break. So this is the reason why you see UConn and Memphis to the Big XII. The ACC has no options to add quality schools. This forces 7 or 8 of them to stick together. Basically, you force the bottom 7 to be loyal and force the other 7 to Basically stick. ESPN are elite at what they do. The best in the world.

I might not have the contacts that you have but I sure as heck can connect the dots. What you said seems pretty accurate. Frenso State isn't going to either conference because they are not a R1 research school and the same could be said about Boise State who used to be the trendy pick to be moving up to the Big 12 where the whole time I wasn't seeing it because the Big 12 prefers R1 research schools and that was the bare minimum for the PAC especially Utah which was just R1 at the time and now is AAU.

I agree that if you look at the R1 schools in the ACC region, there aren't many choices out there so they are stuck right now and that is the same problem the PAC has out west. You have Hawaii, UNR, UNLV, USU, UNM, and CSU as the R1 schools out of the MWC. But they are not AAU and that is where the PAC is more stingy than the Big 12 but they are basically the same. The ACC is pretty much there and surprisingly the SEC schools rank up there too in that category.

I'm having difficulty seeing the Ivy League schools hooking up with the P12 not only due to travel but they don't play postseason football in FCS. The Ivy League was I-A/FBS before dropping down to FCS in 1981 I think. But stranger things can happen still. But Oregon with those Ivy league schools? Don't make me laugh.

I was thinking the Big 12 was basically C-USA 3.0 but I guess AAC 2.0 is more accurate.

Just use common sense. It's not hard to see one conference has accepted its faith and moved to being the best in this tier where the other two are scrambling as they don't want no part of this lane.

Big cable did this. If you want to neg rep someone, neg rep ESPN, FOX, CBS, and NBC.

CU has no one to blame but itself for reaching this tier. It has been this way since the 2002 rape scandal that rocked the football program and as a result, the administration stopped trying in football. That is why CU hasn't had much success in the last 20 years. Fans of any sport of any level will have difficulty swallowing the bitter pill of reality that their team isn't at the level it once was. CU appears to be accepting of the reality and is working towards being the best of the best at that level. I have told other CU fans that if we are at a lower tier of football, does that mean Ralphie is going to run sideways or backwards?

 

[#1 pick]

I might not have the contacts that you have but I sure as heck can connect the dots. What you said seems pretty accurate. Frenso State isn't going to either conference because they are not a R1 research school and the same could be said about Boise State who used to be the trendy pick to be moving up to the Big 12 where the whole time I wasn't seeing it because the Big 12 prefers R1 research schools and that was the bare minimum for the PAC especially Utah which was just R1 at the time and now is AAU.

I agree that if you look at the R1 schools in the ACC region, there aren't many choices out there so they are stuck right now and that is the same problem the PAC has out west. You have Hawaii, UNR, UNLV, USU, UNM, and CSU as the R1 schools out of the MWC. But they are not AAU and that is where the PAC is more stingy than the Big 12 but they are basically the same. The ACC is pretty much there and surprisingly the SEC schools rank up there too in that category.

I'm having difficulty seeing the Ivy League schools hooking up with the P12 not only due to travel but they don't play postseason football in FCS. The Ivy League was I-A/FBS before dropping down to FCS in 1981 I think. But stranger things can happen still. But Oregon with those Ivy league schools? Don't make me laugh.

I was thinking the Big 12 was basically C-USA 3.0 but I guess AAC 2.0 is more accurate.



CU has no one to blame but itself for reaching this tier. It has been this way since the 2002 rape scandal that rocked the football program and as a result, the administration stopped trying in football. That is why CU hasn't had much success in the last 20 years. Fans of any sport of any level will have difficulty swallowing the bitter pill of reality that their team isn't at the level it once was. CU appears to be accepting of the reality and is working towards being the best of the best at that level. I have told other CU fans that if we are at a lower tier of football, does that mean Ralphie is going to run sideways or backwards?

Don't be surprised if the PAC moves East. Research and school prestige will likely pass sporting legacy with the remaining schools.

At the end of the day, Apple is gonna run the show with the amount of schools and academics will be the key driver in who joins the conference. This new conference will be the Mountain West with elite inheritance.

 

[PAC MAN]

I actually don't believe they are doing that. I think they are the one conference that's excepted its faith. They are a middle class conference but they want to be the best middle class conference in the world. The PAC still thinks it's an upper class conference. ESPN said, you are middle class and less valuable to us than the Big XII especially if we can take some of your brands and turn this conference into what the American wanted to be. The top middle class conference in the world but it's impossible to be middle class when you are lower middle class in everything. You got a lot of bus drivers and cafeteria workers in conferences like the Sun Belt, Mt West, and CUSA. But your bus drivers get paid more because you are in bigger cities.

Now with the Big XII realizing what they are. They created a market for themselves. They know they are no longer upper class but they are middle class. The ACC and Pac-12 refuse to realize they are middle class now too and it's gonna drive the PAC to being a fake middle class conference.

For 2024-25, the B1G and SEC is upper class.

ACC, Big XII, and PAC are middle class

The G5s are always lower middle class and lower class with no chance of being middle class as they lack the "athletic education"

The ACC has not accepted its faith but are stuck. The Big XII has and they are doing exactly what the American conference wanted to do. Be a conference that's coast to coast. The best middle class sports available but they only had G5 money and you can't be middle class or upper middle class with G5 money. No one wants to travel if they don't have to. It helps that ESPN is doing the bidding for the Big XII and that's honestly what's killed the PAC.

The PAC won't be dead but it's gonna be the Mountain West with great inheritance. Sadly, they didn't read the room. The Big XII is reading the room and they don't have any competition. The G5s are easy pickings, everyone wants out.

I think we are going to see the Big XII be the first upper middle class conference when its all said and done.

The landscape has changed and they were the ones to adjust. I still think the ACC can be upper middle class but how long can that last with so much uncertainty.

This is what I have been trying to tell the general CU fanbase. No one likes being relegated like what is happening with the ACC, Big 12, and PAC.

 

[#1 pick]

This is what I have been trying to tell the general CU fanbase. No one likes being relegated like what is happening with the ACC, Big 12, and PAC.

Honestly, I understand and I agree with most CU fans. The idea is to join other powerhouse schools that aren't in the SEC or B1G but if they want out of their conference and want to go to the B1G or SEC. What other options you have? I discovered that the linear deal with CW is small as hell. The rest is Apple licensing with CBS for football and CBS College Sports for non-football. These deals are horrendous. CUSA status outside of the Apple TV deal which is reasonable but awful. Reasonable compared to the rest of the potential offers, and awful compared to others within the same tier (Big XII and ACC). ESPN is the one who generally overpays for the content. The others only situationally overpay. When ESPN left the chat and the rest didn't even offer, it was like the industry just blackballed the PAC.

Apple has a price range but they know college football fans are loyal so they are all in. Hearing the number with the max teams, the deal would average more per year than the MLS deal with Apple TV. Considering the loyalty of college football, this could be a major win for Apple TV. I still say the MLS deal was a L for Apple but if they get Messi, maybe it can turn into a win.

 

[SuperD]

Most CU fans would rather be associated with the schools in the P12 and this likely won’t do us any favors on the academic reputation front. But the P12 leadership’s failures combined with a confluence of events making this an epically bad time to have the media rights come to market means staying may not be viable. I doubt we’d be moving if the P12 money is on par. Hopefully this is about positioning for the final shake up in six or seven years.

CU leadership has finally decided to invest in football and has been writing a lot of checks, so it doesn’t make sense to take a $10 million dollar haircut on top of the additional expenses. The program strategy Coach Prime is running is also based on maximum exposure. That doesn’t work if we are buried on a second tier streaming platform and get ”disappeared” by the sports media because they don’t have any P12 rights. Just look at the current early tv channel and time slot assignments. The time slots suck for fans but I think we have more appearances already scheduled on the mainline Fox and ESPN channels of any team in the P12 including USC. Washington’s big OOC game against Michigan State is going to be relegated to Peacock only. Also, does anyone in the B12 really scare you? It’s a bunch of solid but blah brand teams. If Coach Prime gets this thing going we could be the B12’s football bell cow program inside of three years which would result in some different conversations in the next round of realignment.

There Is also some leverage that comes with having a first mover advantage, hopefully we are saying no to this 99 year grant of rights issue. If the B12 and the networks want us to do their dirty work of killing the P12 we should try to leverage it for a get out of jail free card if we perform well enough for a B1G or SEC invite down the road.

 

[#1 pick]

Most CU fans would rather be associated with the schools in the P12 and this likely won’t do us any favors on the academic reputation front. But the P12 leadership’s failures combined with a confluence of events making this an epically bad time to have the media rights come to market means staying may not be viable. I doubt we’d be moving if the P12 money is on par. Hopefully this is about positioning for the final shake up in six or seven years.

CU leadership has finally decided to invest in football and has been writing a lot of checks, so it doesn’t make sense to take a $10 million dollar haircut on top of the additional expenses. The program strategy Coach Prime is running is also based on maximum exposure. That doesn’t work if we are buried on a second tier streaming platform and get ”disappeared” by the sports media because they don’t have any P12 rights. Just look at the current early tv channel and time slot assignments. The time slots suck for fans but I think we have more appearances already scheduled on the mainline Fox and ESPN channels of any team in the P12 including USC. Washington’s big OOC game against Michigan State is going to be relegated to Peacock only. Also, does anyone in the B12 really scare you? It’s a bunch of solid but blah brand teams. If Coach Prime gets this thing going we could be the B12’s football bell cow program inside of three years which would result in some different conversations in the next round of realignment.

There Is also some leverage that comes with having a first mover advantage, hopefully we are saying no to this 99 year grant of rights issue.

It's about an 11 million dollar difference based on the current framework which will change but the visibility is massively different, especially for non-Football sports.

While the P12 leadership was bad, ESPN was talking with the PAC-12 about 19-20 million PER school just less than a year ago for TWO GAMES (Friday and SAT night). Now, they don't even have an offer on the table. The only linear deal you have is with CW for two games. For 20 million for the entire CONFERENCE. I can't blame P12 leadership. The truth is the cable companies sunk the PAC-12. I am not sure why but no one even was willing to offer. Apple is at trying to do a fair, although very financially rewarding deal. The MLS deal wasn't good and they didn't realize that MLS fans are going to games loyal, not watching them on streaming loyal. It's very humbling.

The biggest issue my Oregon contact stated was Oregon has been trying to schedule games as if they are going independent. They can't get any quality games at home. One of the biggest issues they got with going to the Big 12 is that 99-year GOR. They don't want to do it, at all. They also hate this TV deal. They and Washington want into the B1G so badly right now. It's insane. I was told by him that even without those two squads, the deal is the deal from Apple so that just tells you based on the numbers Apple has, that they can lose Washington and Oregon and still be very profitable at this cost.

They are on a mission with the PAC. It's clear. I don't know what the PAC did but damn. It's ugly. CUSA was able to move and wiggle. I honestly think they gave some of the slots to the CUSA that they had for the PAC, lol!

I don't think Colorado is in a position to look at that 99-year GOR issue. For those who don't know, it's this: In 2012, the Big 12 schools entered into a 99-year agreement to remain together, a deal that comes with an exit fee of two years' worth of gross revenue, or about $80 million each.

 

[JayHawk]

Yes. And that exit fee is not cheap. BUT there is a way out even today unlike the current ACC deal. So if anyone is confused about the 99 year deal yes it is that long but there is a way out if a move is warranted.

 

[BuffSurveyor]

You taught Victory how to put an argument together. Just admit it.

BTW-Are you coming in September? I have a piss balloon with your name on it.

I'd like to. Can you score me two tickets located about 4 or 5 rows in front of you so your aim can be verified?

 

[PAC MAN]

Yes. And that exit fee is not cheap. BUT there is a way out even today unlike the current ACC deal. So if anyone is confused about the 99 year deal yes it is that long but there is a way out if a move is warranted.

A figure that could surpass $100M by 2030. CU got out of the Big 12 cheap back in 2011 and I don't think that is going to happen when the B1G or SEC comes calling.

 

[SINKRATZ]

NY media nearby

Great Basketball

ESPN wants the ACC to stick together at all cost to the chagrin of the powerhouses like Clemson, UNC, and FSU.

Basically ESPN

ESPN runs the Big XII

Does UConn really deliver the NY media market though? I’m skeptical. And basketball isn’t really a needle mover when it comes to value. There’s a reason the BIG took Rutgers and not UConn. They absolutely have to be on a reduced share of revenue and even still I’m struggling with what they bring that raises value for the existing programs in that conference.

 

[Highlander]

Welcome to the future

BREAKING: Washington-Michigan State will be streaming only

 

[Jayne Cobb]

You’re viewing things through a 2023 lens. The B1G and SEC are going to control the entire sport and its postseason at some point, unless something drastic happens. They aren’t going to allow teams from weak conferences to get auto bids into the playoff like it’s currently set up starting in 2024. As soon as they shut down the auto bids, you think the Pac 10, Big 12 or ACC are getting any more than one team in the CFP if that?

I think you are ignoring the antitrust implications of them doing that. The current 4 team playoff and the new playoff were both designed to avoid antitrust lawsuits by teams that would be excluded from the post-season. If they have auto-bids, and they limit it to the so-called P2 conferences, all the other conferences will sue the P2 and whatever entity they set up to run the playoff selection in a New York second.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I think you are ignoring the antitrust implications of them doing that. The current 4 team playoff and the new playoff were both designed to avoid antitrust lawsuits by teams that would be excluded from the post-season. If they have auto-bids, and they limit it to the so-called P2 conferences, all the other conferences will sue the P2 and whatever entity they set up to run the playoff selection in a New York second.

They will remove autobids just like the 4 team playoff. There will still be a path, like there is today for G5 programs, but the path will be 13-0 with an impressive resume and you might be a 6-12 seed.

 

[Buffnik]

Does UConn really deliver the NY media market though? I’m skeptical. And basketball isn’t really a needle mover when it comes to value. There’s a reason the BIG took Rutgers and not UConn. They absolutely have to be on a reduced share of revenue and even still I’m struggling with what they bring that raises value for the existing programs in that conference.

No one really delivers any of the markets in the northeast. Pro markets with as much Ivy connection as anything. But as far as drawing something significant, UConn is in a state with a larger population than many multi-team P5 states (IA, UT, KS, MS, etc) and is both a NY and New England draw.

 

[hokiehead]

Me reading Allbuffs:
"We're going to the XII "
"We're staying in the Pac "
"We're going to the XII "
"We're fcked "

Me reading techsideline:
"We're going to the XII "
"We're staying in the ACC "
"We're going to the B1G "
"We're merging with the PAC "
"We're going to the SEC "
"We're staying in the ACC "
"We're fcked "

 

[chipwich]

Welcome to the future

BREAKING: Washington-Michigan State will be streaming only

Love how they skip over their record last season.

“visit the Spartans, who finished 11-2 in 2021 and ranked among the country’s top 10 teams.”

 

[PAC MAN]

Does UConn really deliver the NY media market though? I’m skeptical. And basketball isn’t really a needle mover when it comes to value. There’s a reason the BIG took Rutgers and not UConn. They absolutely have to be on a reduced share of revenue and even still I’m struggling with what they bring that raises value for the existing programs in that conference.

The B1G took Rutgers because they were also AAU which UConn is not and any non-AAU school simply will not be considered by the B1G for expansion. If UConn was AAU, you would have to think UConn gets in before Rutgers due to being close to NYC and where ESPN's HQ is located.

If MHver3 is to be believed, ESPN & Fox have agreed to pay UConn pro-rata as a ploy to get Arizona to commit to the B12.

 

[LesGrossman]

Did it happen yet?

 

[Bread]

Did it happen yet?

Just like when Prime was hired, conferences are being thrown around as a smokescreen. We're already in the SEC just waiting on the announcement for maximum media coverage.

 

[InTheBuff]

43-44 min into Podcast-

Expects things happening quickly. Hearing Colorado, Arizona, UConn, SDSU and Gonzaga in the mix- not so sure about ASU and Utah.
Didn't say if UConn would be basketball only.

 

[SINKRATZ]

No one really delivers any of the markets in the northeast. Pro markets with as much Ivy connection as anything. But as far as drawing something significant, UConn is in a state with a larger population than many multi-team P5 states (IA, UT, KS, MS, etc) and is both a NY and New England draw.

Define “draw”. Does anyone in the NE really care about UConn football? All I’m hearing is they are geographically proximate to NY. Is that really all it takes to “draw” that market? If that’s the case why not add Rhode Island and lock up Boston too?

 

[SINKRATZ]

The B1G took Rutgers because they were also AAU which UConn is not and any non-AAU school simply will not be considered by the B1G for expansion. If UConn was AAU, you would have to think UConn gets in before Rutgers due to being close to NYC and where ESPN's HQ is located.

If MHver3 is to be believed, ESPN & Fox have agreed to pay UConn pro-rata as a ploy to get Arizona to commit to the B12.

UConn and ESPN both being located in CT is a non-factor. DirecTV’s headquarters are in CA, how did that work out for the PAC?

And I don’t even follow what you’re saying at the end - how are UConn and Arizona linked here?

 

[Burrito]

Did it happen yet?

 

[SuperD]

I don’t understand why there doesn’t seem to be more concern coming from the ASU / Utah side at least if the money gap is that bad. Are we getting rope a doped into killing the P12 and then the other AAU schools plus ASU get facilitated to the ACC by ESPN. That would suck for the school from an academic association perspective.

 

[Darth Snow]

Some people have no shame. fusker loving? and still posting?

 

[PAC MAN]

UConn and ESPN both being located in CT is a non-factor. DirecTV’s headquarters are in CA, how did that work out for the PAC?

And I don’t even follow what you’re saying at the end - how are UConn and Arizona linked here?

 

[#1 pick]

I don’t understand why there doesn’t seem to be more concern coming from the ASU / Utah side at least if the money gap is that bad. Are we getting rope a doped into killing the P12 and then the other AAU schools plus ASU get facilitated to the ACC by ESPN. That would suck for the school from an academic association perspective.

It's unlikely anyone is an addition to the ACC till 2036