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'12 OK RB Barry Sanders Jr. (Signed to Stanford)

More than a bit of a stretch to call Arichie Manning an all-time great.

Career 55% completions, 125 TDs against 173 INTs, and a QB rating of 67. For perspective when compared to the 2011 season, that QB rating would have put him between John Skelton and Curtis Painter as the 32nd of 34 total NFL QBs.
 
Buffnik said:
More than a bit of a stretch to call Arichie Manning an all-time great.

Career 55% completions, 125 TDs against 173 INTs, and a QB rating of 67. For perspective when compared to the 2011 season, that QB rating would have put him between John Skelton and Curtis Painter as the 32nd of 34 total NFL QBs.
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Archie Manning may not be a HOF'er, but the comparison to the modern era is unfair given the rule changes that have occurred. Consider this excerpt from ESPN (a good read about the breaking of Dan Marino's single season passing record):

In 1984, Marino was brilliant. He threw for 48 touchdowns, 26 more than the league average. He threw for almost 1,800 yards more than the league average and more than the Buffalo Bills and Los Angeles Rams did combined. His completion percentage was 8 points higher than the league average. He was special because of the cultural shift he represented. Six years earlier in 1978, when the NFL went to a 16-game schedule, seven teams didn't complete even half of their passes. The worst was Tampa Bay, which finished the season at a dismal 41.8 percent completion rate, a number that makes Tim Tebow look like John Elway. Eight years earlier, at the 1970 AFL-NFL merger, the Redskins led the league with a 59.4 percent completion rate and the Pittsburgh Steelers were worst at 39.1 percent -- evidence of a lack of emphasis on the precise passing game of today and evidence of rules that undermined the passing attack.


Nowadays, defensive players are less inclined to go hard after a quarterback. Defensive backs once could clutch and grab and face guard; today, sneezing near a wide receiver might draw a critical pass interference call. It was simply harder to throw the ball back then.

Today's football is way out of balance. Brees and Brady were terrific, but the league's average completion percentage was 60.1 percent this season, suggesting that either defenses are much, much worse or that they've been fatally hamstrung by regulation. In 1984, only six teams completed better than 60 percent of their passes. The 2011 Redskins, a team that won all of five games, completed 58.5 percent of their passes, good for 21st in the NFL; in 1984, that rate would've been ninth-best. In 1990, every team completed at least 50 percent of its passes for the first time, and the league has never looked back.
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http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...s-tom-brady-beating-dan-marino-passing-record
 
Buffnik said:
More than a bit of a stretch to call Arichie Manning an all-time great.

Career 55% completions, 125 TDs against 173 INTs, and a QB rating of 67. For perspective when compared to the 2011 season, that QB rating would have put him between John Skelton and Curtis Painter as the 32nd of 34 total NFL QBs.
Click to expand...

If we're talking college, I think Manning at Ole Miss was considered one of the great college QBs ever. I remember seeing a quote that Bear Bryant called him the best QB he ever coached against. Peyton and Eli were pretty damn good in college, but I'm not sure either one was as good as their dad...
 
Good stuff, Cree. But you still can't overlook the TD/INT. I didn't even bring up the won/loss record because it was much harder to improve before the free agency era. But, man, I don't know if you completely divorce a QB from wins/losses or can look at a QB and see anything close to greatness when there's no objective measure that points to it.

Archie seems like a good guy, native son, fun player to watch, and guy who never stopped trying hard on awful teams who the fans and media loved in spite of the results. Or maybe because of the results because he had the intangibles and people felt bad for him.
 
For those who think a Stanford fall is inevitable, I would not be so quick to dismiss them longterm.
 
Junction said:
If we're talking college, I think Manning at Ole Miss was considered one of the great college QBs ever. I remember seeing a quote that Bear Bryant called him the best QB he ever coached against. Peyton and Eli were pretty damn good in college, but I'm not sure either one was as good as their dad...
Click to expand...
Remember that Manning played for one of the worst teams ever. He was the only thing the Saints had. I remember people talking about him as if he was the best in the league then.
 
Buffnik said:
Good stuff, Cree. But you still can't overlook the TD/INT. I didn't even bring up the won/loss record because it was much harder to improve before the free agency era. But, man, I don't know if you completely divorce a QB from wins/losses or can look at a QB and see anything close to greatness when there's no objective measure that points to it.
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SuperiorBuff pretty much responded for me. Archie was a very good player on a very bad team. With the recent performance of the Saints, people forget that for many decades, New Orleans was the only team in the league to have never won a single playoff game.

And since we've successfully thread jacked, here's an interesting trivia question that I stumbled on....Name the the three Buff players that are part of NFL father-son combos. All three of the sons were very good players for CU.
 
Lots of 'em in baseball, though, Bonds and Griffey coming immediately to mind, and I'm not much of a baseball fan.
 
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