2021 Offseason Thread

[manhattanbuff]

I mean, he hasn't played this year due to injury, so i'm confused about the "non air raid numbers" comment. Regardless, he's still one of the most dynamic players in the conference and actually has a modern NFL RB skill set that teams will covet. PFF has him as a top 10 RB for the 2021 draft just ahead of Felton and other sites I've seen have him projected as a rd 3-4 guy.

Right. We don’t know if he can actually play in a non air raid offense or produce rushing totals in the NFL. You’re comparing him to guys who had major college careers and are starters/major contributors in the NFL. But I know you’ve always had a hard-on for him, so I’ll stop.

 

[Duff Man]

I haven't said Hagan should be fired once. I just don't believe there is some track record of amazing success that should continue giving him a free pass, especially when he has a history of alienating talented players for the try hard kind of guys.

Right now, this staff has an awful recruiting coordinator, a WR coach at OC who doesn't recruit much, a QB coach who only recruits QBs, an OL coach who was coaching high school last year, a first year TE coach, and a RB coach who has been fine but not great. At least he's cheap, though!

I am not giving him a free pass. I think it will be interesting to see how he navigates his position over the next year.

 

[Not Sure]

To be clear, I’ve never said Hagan is immune to criticism. Only that the criticism he’s gotten lately seems a bit overplayed. Again, I think it’s reasonable to ask why Clayton didn’t get more carries. It’s also reasonable to wonder why Joe Davis got the carries he did. Those are objective questions that should be asked. To imply he’s a failure is going overboard.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Right. We don’t know if he can actually play in a non air raid offense or produce rushing totals in the NFL. You’re comparing him to guys who had major college careers and are starters/major contributors in the NFL. But I know you’ve always had a hard-on for him, so I’ll stop.

My point is that he is an extremely talented player that put up over 1400 all purpose yards and 16 TDs last season and will be a mid round NFL pick. You're picking a weird hill to die on in this discussion.

 

[manhattanbuff]

My point is that he is an extremely talented player that put up over 1400 all purpose yards and 16 TDs last season and will be a mid round NFL pick. You're picking a weird hill to die on in this discussion.

Not really. The receiving numbers were inflated because of the offense. He’s probably a slot receiver at the next level or maybe a third down back. The other guys you listed are actual starters. It’s weird that you think he’s comparable to guys who produced huge all purpose numbers in more conventional offenses (emphasis on their ability to run the ball).

 

[onealcd]

I think people also underestimate the loss of smith. He was going to be in the rotation and that was before Fontenot went down.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Not really. The receiving numbers were inflated because of the offense. He’s probably a slot receiver at the next level or maybe a third down back. The other guys you listed are actual starters. It’s weird that you think he’s comparable to guys who produced huge all purpose numbers in more conventional offenses (emphasis on their ability to run the ball).

He averaged 6.4 yards/carry last year which put him at 14th in the country among RBs with 100+ carries, but you continue to lose sight of the broader point. He's a very talented player at the RB position who has proven to be "pretty good to great".

 

[GuySmiley]

I haven't said Hagan should be fired once. I just don't believe there is some track record of amazing success that should continue giving him a free pass, especially when he has a history of alienating talented players for the try hard kind of guys.

Right now, this staff has an awful recruiting coordinator, a WR coach at OC who doesn't recruit much, a QB coach who only recruits QBs, an OL coach who was coaching high school last year, a first year TE coach, and a RB coach who has been fine but not great. At least he's cheap, though!

I have come to the conclusion that this season given CoVid and all the recruiting limitations, they sort of "winged" this years recruiting class and really focused on team building, coaching, and building with the guys that they had. With the time-frame, I'm not sure given other priorities that they had time to put in place a firm recruiting plan and CoVid really wrecked out of state travel. Certainly, they can be criticized for "winging it;" but this class is basically done.

What I sort of hope will happen is the next month or so, CU will hopefully recruit hard for transfers (maybe only get 2-4, but be in play for the ones they want) and perhaps get a surprise signing/flip or two with the unsigned in February. After signing day, although you are always recruiting in some fashion for the next year, but in that time period RG/LC/KD and to put something firm in place.

Geez for this short period until the late signing date, I'm not sure of the NCAA dead periods or limitations on the unsigned, but I would not hurt to send a highlight reel of Landman, Wells, and Gonzales to guys like Corey Foreman, Terrance Lewis, Raesjohn Davis, and Ceyair Wright with would you like to be showcased in the defense?? Oh how a couple of Blue-Chip LB's would look for this defense.

 

[manhattanbuff]

He averaged 6.4 yards/carry last year which put him at 14th in the country among RBs with 100+ carries, but you continue to lose sight of the broader point. He's a very talented player at the RB position who has proven to be "pretty good to great".

You’re naming a feature of the offense that passes the ball 60 times a game. The larger point is that he’s not comparable to the group.

Tell me which one stands out (since we’re cherry picking best seasons):

1642 rushing yards - 263 receiving yards
2019 rushing yards - 645 receiving yards
1380 rushing yards - 232 receiving yards
1550 rushing yards - 187 receiving yards
817 rushing yards - 597 receiving yards

But sure, Borghi’s numbers compare. LMAO.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

You’re naming a feature of the offense that passes the ball 60 times a game. The larger point is that he’s not comparable to the group.

Tell me which one stands out (since we’re cherry picking best seasons):

1642 rushing yards - 263 receiving yards
2019 rushing yards - 645 receiving yards
1380 rushing yards - 232 receiving yards
1550 rushing yards - 187 receiving yards
817 rushing yards - 597 receiving yards

But sure, Borghi’s numbers compare. LMAO.

JFC, dude. I removed Borghi from the list in my original post. You good?

 

[BuffsRising]

Seemingly had pretty good running backs.

Hagan has been the RB coach since 2004
since then I'd say it has been less than mediocre overall. He had Lindsay who was a CU kid all the way, not giving Hagan much credit for that one. Other than that Rodney Stewart had one season over 1000 yards and T. McMillian had a season barely over 1000.

Leading rushers by season (I didn't find a ready made chart with ypc but trust me it is just as unimpressive)
2005 H. Charles 842
2006 H. Charles 779
2007 H. Charles 989
2008 R. Stewart 622
2009 R. Stewart 804
2010 R. Stewart 1318
2011 R. Stewart 854
2012 C Powell 691
2013 C Powell 562 (Adkins this season also had over 500)
2014 C Powell 448
2015 P. Lindsay 653
2016 P. Lindsay 1189
2017 P. Lindsay 1479
2018 T. McMillion 1009
2019 A Fontenot 874

I'm failing to see anything there that says that a guy who doesn't particularly excel as a recruiter deserves to have a job for life and is beyond questioning in his coaching.

Darian Hagan wasnt the rb coach until 2006, and wasnt the rb coach from 2011-2015.

 

[Dorn09]

To be clear, I’ve never said Hagan is immune to criticism. Only that the criticism he’s gotten lately seems a bit overplayed. Again, I think it’s reasonable to ask why Clayton didn’t get more carries. It’s also reasonable to wonder why Joe Davis got the carries he did. Those are objective questions that should be asked. To imply he’s a failure is going overboard.

I would like to know why J-Bro was second on the depth chart when its clear he is the best running back we have had since Speedy.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I would like to know why J-Bro was second on the depth chart when its clear he is the best running back we have had since Speedy.

Fontenot was RB1 as Brou had never played in a game.

 

[hawg1]

All I known is I’d trade our entire RB room for that Bijan Robinson kid who ran all over us on Tuesday. He’s “pretty good to great”.

I’d trade entire room for Okie State, not even counting Chuba.

 

[hawg1]

I haven't said Hagan should be fired once. I just don't believe there is some track record of amazing success that should continue giving him a free pass, especially when he has a history of alienating talented players for the try hard kind of guys.

Right now, this staff has an awful recruiting coordinator, a WR coach at OC who doesn't recruit much, a QB coach who only recruits QBs, an OL coach who was coaching high school last year, a first year TE coach, and a RB coach who has been fine but not great. At least he's cheap, though!

Who is the RC? I’m not fooling. Who was it this year?

 

[manhattanbuff]

Who is the RC? I’m not fooling. Who was it this year?

Bob Lopez.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Who is the RC? I’m not fooling. Who was it this year?

We don't have one technically, but Bob Lopez is "Director of Player Personnel" and I believe assumes RC duties.

 

[BuffUp]

Mel was on to something with the hot young girls handling some recruiting task for us....probably would have got us in trouble eventually...but he was on to something there

 

[89BuffsBest]

Wasn’t he the recruiting coordinator?

Based on looking at cubuffs.com rosters, I don't believe that Darian Hagan has ever been the recruiting coordinator. He was the Director of Player Personnel in 2011 & 2012. He was the Director of Player Development in 2013 & 2014. There was no one with the title "Recruiting Coordinator" in '11 & '12 (nor anyone on staff with "recruiting" in their job title). In '13 & '14, the Recruiting Coordinator was Troy Walters and the Director of Recruiting was Adam Toyama.

 

[89BuffsBest]

We don't have one technically, but Bob Lopez is "Director of Player Personnel" and I believe assumes RC duties.

You are right. From cubuffs.com: "In his role, Lopez, 65, a veteran sports administrator and football coach, coordinates all aspects and details of recruiting including prospect evaluation."

 

[hawg1]

Bob Lopez.

He’s the RC? It needs to be an assistant.

Lopez level should be Director Player Personnel. Or Director Player Development.

Oy.

this is worse than I thought. I even less of a Lopez fan now.

revamp now!!

 

[hawg1]

Mel was on to something with the hot young girls handling some recruiting task for us....probably would have got us in trouble eventually...but he was on to something there

Cymone George was qualified.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

He’s the RC? It needs to be an assistant.

Lopez level should be Director Player Personnel. Or Director Player Development.

Oy.

this is worse than I thought. I even less of a Lopez fan now.

revamp now!!

Forget Bama, UGA, etc. Check this for ASU's staff...

2 Recruiting Coordinators (one of which is an AC - Antonio Pierce)
1 Chief of Staff/Associate AD for Football
3 Associate AD for Football Ops
1 Director of College Personnel
1 Director of Player Personnel
1 Assistant Director, On Campus Recruiting

By the way, Antonio Pierce holds the following position titles - AHC/Co-DC/RC/LB.... I guess having Marvin Lewis as the other Co-DC and having another RC allows him to maintain all those titles and duties.

Herm running the program like an NFL team. CU is certainly running a program.

Football Coaches - Arizona State University Athletics

The official Football Coach List for the Arizona State University Sun Devils

thesundevils.com

 

[patebuff]

For better or worse, Hagan isn't going anywhere so its pointless to argue. He is tied to this School and the football program as a coach until he wants to retire or take a behind the scenes position.

 

[manhattanbuff]

He’s the RC? It needs to be an assistant.

Lopez level should be Director Player Personnel. Or Director Player Development.

Oy.

this is worse than I thought. I even less of a Lopez fan now.

revamp now!!

Tschek already answered. That’s not his title, but he’s doing that job.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Based on looking at cubuffs.com rosters, I don't believe that Darian Hagan has ever been the recruiting coordinator. He was the Director of Player Personnel in 2011 & 2012. He was the Director of Player Development in 2013 & 2014. There was no one with the title "Recruiting Coordinator" in '11 & '12 (nor anyone on staff with "recruiting" in their job title). In '13 & '14, the Recruiting Coordinator was Troy Walters and the Director of Recruiting was Adam Toyama.

The player personnel title has often been used to describe people who do the RC job.

 

[CULifer]

Not sure about ASU but Utah and Whittingham have a track record that we simply don’t have. They also have deep connections in the LDS and poly communities. If CU had a HC with 11 bowl wins at this program, I suspect recruiting without crossing the line would be a little easier.

I think HCKD can be a Whittingham for us. If he wants to stick around. And I'd rather see steady, organic, real growth in recruiting thats sustainable. And if I'm reading the between the lines accurately on how you're characterizing Whittingham, it appears that you're saying Whittingham runs a clean recruiting effort and has success because they have deep ties to LDS and Poly people without having a whole heck of a lot of recruiting $$$ and dedicated recruiting-only staff.
And if we don't have ties or $$$ for it, the long-term outlook is ****ty, eh?

 

[Not Sure]

Tschek already answered. That’s not his title, but he’s doing that job.

I wouldn’t say he’s actually “doing” that job.

 

[hawg1]

Forget Bama, UGA, etc. Check this for ASU's staff...

2 Recruiting Coordinators (one of which is an AC - Antonio Pierce)
1 Chief of Staff/Associate AD for Football
3 Associate AD for Football Ops
1 Director of College Personnel
1 Director of Player Personnel
1 Assistant Director, On Campus Recruiting

By the way, Antonio Pierce holds the following position titles - AHC/Co-DC/RC/LB.... I guess having Marvin Lewis as the other Co-DC and having another RC allows him to maintain all those titles and duties.

Herm running the program like an NFL team. CU is certainly running a program.

Football Coaches - Arizona State University Athletics

The official Football Coach List for the Arizona State University Sun Devils

thesundevils.com

And they grade and evaluate using NFL model.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I think HCKD can be a Whittingham for us. If he wants to stick around. And I'd rather see steady, organic, real growth in recruiting thats sustainable. And if I'm reading the between the lines accurately on how you're characterizing Whittingham, it appears that you're saying Whittingham runs a clean recruiting effort and has success because they have deep ties to LDS and Poly people without having a whole heck of a lot of recruiting $$$ and dedicated recruiting-only staff.
And if we don't have ties or $$$ for it, the long-term outlook is ****ty, eh?

I have no idea if Whittingham runs a clean program, but just given his longevity without issue I’d venture a guess that he is mostly clean - but he has something to sell that CU does not: success over a long period of time.