A little Hawk Love...

[Hugegroove]

Yes, changes need to be made. But all of us need to move forward and try to salvage what looked like a start to a promising season. For better or worse, were going to have Hawkins at least one more year. I think my biggest concern for the team now is if Hawkins were to make some wholesale changes that make bad matters worse than they already are. I will continue to support the team & go to all the home games. We can turn our backs to the coaching staff, but never turn our backs to these kids. It would hurt them more than than any of us would ever know.
I long for the return of the glory days as much as the rest of you do. Those days will come, there just not here as soon as we hoped they would be.

 

[buffs04]

How is the talent going to look in a few years when the 2009 and 2010 recruiting classes are supposed to be the core of our team? That is going to be a huge problem and we will be back at square one. Again.

 

[Gateway]

Good post,

I don't think many here are willing to admit exactly how little talent was left on this squad when GB left. I know that some will pop up with Dizon and the Goldfish, et. al but from a standpoint of having 85 guys or even 45 guys who were ready to play or even develop into ready to play in one of the two toughest conferences in college football it wasn't even close to there. Six scholarship O-Lineman, one with a bad knee. Bernard Jackson as your best option at QB ahead of Cox, a nice kid with a D2 arm and White who got beat out when he transfered to D1-aa.

The first recruiting class was a wash-out, the second better but they were still getting to know the HS coaches and a lot of kids had already been building relationships with other schools since their Soph/Junior years. Third year recruiting was excellent, last year lacked big names other than Kasa but was very solid.

As a result we may have the youngest O-line in the country, CSU was the first real game action for three guys. The line includes a RSFr, three Soph (only one of of who has significant prior playing time) and a Jr in his second year as an O-Lineman. Then the center gets injured and we go with a sub who was a WO in his first significant playing time. This group improved a huge amount from game one to two and has a major upside.

We have no upperclass WRs other than a JC Transfer. This position is improving rapidly. I know that people give Scotty grief about being a small, slow, walk-on but he gets open and catches the ball. If he were to leave a lot of D1 schools would be happy to have him. Simas is finally going to get on the field, we have all heard the same things about him, Simmons is a legit big reciever with hands and speed. The three Fr are all significant upgrades from what we have had. I don't like seeing Espy out there either, he should be Scotty's seldom used back-up.

How many teams wanted Darrell Scott, this week we got to see a little of why that was the case, not many teams wanted Steward, now many see that they made a mistake. Lock is talented and Sumler looks a lot like what CSU has been throwing at people for years.

TE Deehan is young and was highly rated, This is the one position where we lose a lot to graduation after this season. Thornton gives hope for the future.

QB is the problem area. Cody was actually fairly highly regarded coming out of HS but has shown that he is not the answer. Hansen showed flashes, Evans has his supporters but who knows. This is an area that is very questionable.
I could do the same breakdown for D and it would look similar. At all positions we have made major upgrades from what we had at the end of the GB era. The trouble is that at most positions including the most important on a defense the line we are painfully young.

We are starting a huge number of guys who would be welcome at top 20 schools around the country but in almost all cases they would be comfortably settled in on the depth chart behind an upper classman getting their experience in carefully measured doses and situations.

Hawk has made some huge progress in his time here but truthfully this team is not ready for prime time yet. It is to young and the guys who should be the depth are starting for lack of upperclassmen in front of them. This also means that there is a lack of depth behind them. This doesn't come instantly when a team was so deep in a hole as when Hawk got here.

I like you valdez, think that Hawk has potential still as a winning coach. He needs time to build the program and we may in our anger over two ugly losses jumped the gun.

At the same time Hawk needs to grow into Big XII football just like his players. It is understandable losing to teams like Texas and Missouri and even some of the lower teams that are not battling the lack of depth and experience. What is not understandable is a coaching staff that looks clueless to stop offenses that are doing to same thing over and over to us. What is not understandable is a defense that when it gets to the ball doesn't look like it has a clue about fundamental tackling (wrap the guy up and bring him down instead of slapping at him or bouncing off.)

He also needs to get over himself and realize that this isn't Boise. You don't win in this conference playing the hustle guys and the underdogs, you get run over. That doesn't mean that it is okay for guys not to hustle but CU is a BCS conference school. We are going to get the very best that CSU has every year, this is their chance to show in their own minds that they are as good as Big XII players. Schools like Toledo are going to do the same because again this is their shot at ligitimacy. We are not going to beat them on hustle and desire, we are going to beat them because we have bigger, stronger, more talented players who given time and the right game plan will wear them down.

Does Mack Brown play all his walk-ons and effort guys against a Wyoming, no he stays with his quality players even if the game is close at half knowing that eventually he will wear them down and after the game is over on the scoreboard his hustle guys will get their shot.

He also needs to be willing to look at his staff and hold them to the same standard as he claims to hold his players. Those who are doing the job get more prominent roles, those who aren't get replaced. If a coach isn't cutting it he needs to change his performance or find another place to work. CU assistants are not highly paid as BCS conference assistants go but for the privilege of working at the game they love they are paid well enough that a lot of other qualified guys want their jobs.

Lastly he is were the buck stops. He is the one who is responsible for the issues at QB. He is the one who has not made sure that we have a better option than Cody or if we do he hasn't been put on the field. I believe that Hawk truly believes that Cody is a legitimate answer at the position. I also believe that like many fathers he is seeing what he wants to see, not what he needs to see. Cody is a great kid and would make as good a back-up QB as you could ask for but he is not the answer as a starter and Hawk is responsible for not having that legitimate starter on the field at the single most important position on the team.

At the end of the CSU game I was ready to see Hawk go, after Toledo I was ready to help him pack. Reality is that he isn't going anywhere this year, as a true fan of the Buffs and someone who believes that at heart he is a good man and a good coach I hope that he grows into the job just as his players are growing into the college game. If he does we could end up with a solid winning program, if not then the coach who replaces him at least won't be starting in the same hole Hawk did.

It seems you are conflicted between your luv/support of Hawkins and reality.

Time to go with reality.

 

[Gateway]

P.S. Tell Bohn/Hawkins to stop blaming GB....we have been there and done that and it's time to STOP!

 

[Duff Man]

How is the talent going to look in a few years when the 2009 and 2010 recruiting classes are supposed to be the core of our team? That is going to be a huge problem and we will be back at square one. Again.

That is the big issue I see. We undersigned last class and Hawk seems to have a habit of doing that, so I do not see why he would suddenly change for this class either. That gives you three classes in a row of undersigning that are supposed to be the core of the team in 2-3 years. Yikes.

 

[Mick Ronson]

at this point, i'd rather go fishing with Dan than have him coach the Buffs. good guy, not getting it done in year 4. he's had all the faith in the world go his way from CU fans IMO. every summer we drink the kool aid and tell ourselves we're going to be good. the game starts and we aren't any good.

i'm mixed on my feelings about Bohn, but i give him credit for getting us on national TV the last two weeks. the plate was set to be 2-0, ride some momentum and national exposure (recruiting) and the staff/players stepped on their collective cranks.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

He also needs to get over himself and realize that this isn't Boise. You don't win in this conference playing the hustle guys and the underdogs, you get run over. That doesn't mean that it is okay for guys not to hustle but CU is a BCS conference school. We are going to get the very best that CSU has every year, this is their chance to show in their own minds that they are as good as Big XII players. Schools like Toledo are going to do the same because again this is their shot at ligitimacy. We are not going to beat them on hustle and desire, we are going to beat them because we have bigger, stronger, more talented players who given time and the right game plan will wear them down.

This is Hawkins biggest problem imo. It might be his downfall as well. Cody isn't the answer, but he still chooses to plug him in. Same with Espinoza, and Sandersfield.

 

[buffaholic]

I've been an outspoken supporter of Hawk and I have pointed out that this was a much bigger mess than the last year of GB's record indicated. The pipeline had been turned off.

Last year, injuries were devestating. We were starting 2 freshmen that would have been 3rd string at best everywhere, including here if everyone was healthy.

This year, I expected more. The first two games have been disasters. Recruiting has been better, but we still have much less talented guys in some key positions than we should.

Kiesau recruited J.Smith, Simas and Celestine in the 2nd class (the first we got McKnight to walk on). That was a great start, but in 2010 they have yet to play a down and only Simas has a chance to. The next class we got Blackmon who left.

We flat out failed to bring in a decent QB (Nebraska has a good one and he's a JC kid). We failed here. We also failed at DL (Syko is now happy).

Recruiting still has been much better than it was and I feel like it's been on the right track until now, with this poor start.

Given everything, CSU kicked our ass (Should have been 3-4 TD difference) with a lot less talent on paper. I expected their offense to put up points and I'm not surprised their QB looked good. Much quicker and smoother throwing motion, more athletic, etc.

No - my surprise was with how ill-prepared our defense was. At this point, I didn't expect that.

I'm tired of the hate here as it's unproductive. Bohn ain't listening to us anyways so quit trashing everything. If Hawkins can't turn this around in a big way and show a lot of improvement, you will all have your way. If he can't do it, he's proven he can't coach.

I'm with Valdez in that I still hold out hope. It does no good to not hope. This team will be in much better shape in a few years than it's been in the last 5. Whoever is coaching then will have success IF HE CAN COACH.

 

[BlackNGold]

Recruiting still has been much better than it was and I feel like it's been on the right track until now, with this poor start.

I really don't agree with this. Hawkins has had one good class. The 2009 class was ranked 48th by rivals but we had a 4 *, 3*, & 2* not get into school - so who knows where the class really ranked. Add that to the fact that Hawkins has been undersigning we only have 71 or 72 players on scholarship and several of those are walkons who earned scholarships. Right now CU is short on depth and you can lay that on Hawkins. How do you think recruiting will be this year if this continues?

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I really don't agree with this. Hawkins has had one good class. The 2009 class was ranked 48th by rivals but we had a 4 *, 3*, & 2* not get into school - so who knows where the class really ranked. Add that to the fact that Hawkins has been undersigning we only have 71 or 72 players on scholarship and several of those are walkons who earned scholarships. Right now CU is short on depth and you can lay that on Hawkins. How do you think recruiting will be this year if this continues?

I really don't want to start up the recruiting ranking arguments, but Hawks classes were respectable. He had one lights out year with the Darrell Scott class, but lets not act like his other classes were dog**** either.

 

[Duff Man]

I really don't want to start up the recruiting ranking arguments, but Hawks classes were respectable. He had one lights out year with the Darrell Scott class, but lets not act like his other classes were dog**** either.

I think the 2007 and 2008 classes were very good with the 2008 class being great. But the 2009 class just is not good enough with the non-qualifiers and low number of signees overall. 2010 looks to be going in the wrong direction as well.

 

[Liver]

for me, i think it shakes out like this:

gb was a far better coach. he was more experienced. he knew what he was doing. he surrounded himself with other experienced coaches. they weren't always fun to watch and sometimes he missed on his assistants (okruch, of course, but keep in mind he inherited the coordinator position when macmahon died).

gb focused on firing them up and then the basics: running game, defense, and special teams. it wasn't flashy, but you could win a lot of games that way.

when the scandal hit, it shut down the recruiting. you can argue about the why of that, but that is what happened. without athletes, even good coaches are going to struggle.

comparing what the hawk staff has delivered thus far to gb is unfair to gb and i was as pissed at him as anyone at the end.

 

[BlackNGold]

I really don't want to start up the recruiting ranking arguments, but Hawks classes were respectable. He had one lights out year with the Darrell Scott class, but lets not act like his other classes were dog**** either.

Well lets not act like he has lit the world on fire with his recruiting either.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Well lets not act like he has lit the world on fire with his recruiting either.

Guilty. :smile2:

 

[Buffnik]

Well lets not act like he has lit the world on fire with his recruiting either.

It is fair to say that he has done a tremendous job of recruiting the state of Colorado, forging relationships with the state's high school coaches, and strengthening ties between communities and CU. The walk on program has helped a lot with this, too.

There have definitely been positives with Coach Hawkins. It's why I was so firmly on the bandwagon. He started losing me a bit with the Josh Smith situation, though, and there hasn't been a lot positive since then.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Not a recruiting expert here or anything, but is this years class not going to be worse than what Barnett was giving us his last couple of years? I mean I can't read the future and see who exactly they'll be able to get, but it certainly isn't looking good. While Barnett may have missed the boat on bringing in good OL and QB talent, Hawk has countered that with poor DL recruiting and also being unable to bring in a decent QB. My uneducated opinion has to be that if changes aren't made this year, recruiting classes this year and next will suffer greatly.

 

[Buffnik]

Not a recruiting expert here or anything, but is this years class not going to be worse than what Barnett was giving us his last couple of years? I mean I can't read the future and see who exactly they'll be able to get, but it certainly isn't looking good. While Barnett may have missed the boat on bringing in good OL and QB talent, Hawk has countered that with poor DL recruiting and also being unable to bring in a decent QB. My uneducated opinion has to be that if changes aren't made this year, recruiting classes this year and next will suffer greatly.

If it makes you feel any better, it looks like we'll have developed strong depth at quarterback by next year if we can keep Hirschman and Spond committed. And on the defensive line, pulling in Bonsu, West and Kasa this year was the best DL class at CU in a long time (with Nuckols it had even more potential). Recruiting hasn't been a failure and it's certainly better than the end of the Barnett era. By 2006 we didn't have any offensive linemen left and didn't have a QB on the roster that would have started for a good Texas 5A high school team.

But if things don't turn around this year and Hawk remains the coach, you can bet that we'll be counting on our coaching staff being smarter than the rest of the country in finding the "diamond in the rough" types that will make up the bulk of this class. Let's just say that it's a less than ideal scenario.

 

[Hank]

I'm with Chippy.

"You promise me heaven, then put me through hell."

[video=youtube;GccfzxHIXaY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GccfzxHIXaY[/video]

 

[White_Rabbit]

I suppose it isn't as bad, I overreacted there, but it certainly isn't looking good. Kasa was a huge get, but I mean Hawk barely got him. I just have little hope Hawk will be able to spin the fact that it has been 4 years and he still is trying to claim it was, "such a mess it still isn't fixed", to the recruits. The QB situation is also better I suppose. Both White and Cox were solid QBs coming out of high school if I recall correctly, along the lines of the types of recruits Hansen and Evans are. Not saying either Hansen or Evans is destined to turn into what they did, but if they don't turn out better than them then the next coach is in serious trouble.

 

[BuffMania]

Some of you will never stop making excuses for Hawk. Even AFTER he's gone (fired or ran out of town), you will be making excuses.

There's no excuse for losing 2 games for every 1 game you win.

I'm sorry, but this isn't baseball. Batting .333 ain't good in college football.

 

[GRM]

I ran across this short thread looking at some random CU s@@t finding it both funny and informative... This is from Hawkins' 4th year (Prime is entering year 4) with the Bohner our AD. Except for 1 6-7 season, we did not have good results.

(1) Read the 1st post LOL: "Should we have given Butch Davis and Jon Embree serious consideration? Probably, but that's the past." Ummm, the Bohner tried both of those after firing Hawkins and we know that ended poorly;

(2) @Duff Man and @BlackNGold posted accurate concerns about recruiting (Hawk's classes were not completely all that) but also undersigning--we had 71-72 scholarship athletes, many of which were under-talented and playing too young. Same types of problems mentioned today;

(3) @Buffnik mentioned the positive inroads Hawkins made with Colorado HS recruits, but he also mentioned that he started being lost on Hawkin's with Josh Smith's departure--this is about when I started to really question Hawkins, then we had some other guys depart (who was the All-B12 Forsh Oline Hawkins tried to make into a FB?);

(4) Posters were already leary of the QB controversy and thought Tyler was better than Cody--at least with Prime we are past that!;

(5) I think universally, we never really ever like our ACs and they are always in a state of flux;

(6) The thread ironically closes with @BuffMania [banned] mentioning a .333 winning%.

Overall, it was fun contrasting the difference in posters from that era to this Prime era. Posters were more patient and "half-glass full" before the true dark days of CU football set in. The sheer amount of interest that Prime brings to the program, good or bad injects many more posts and posters. It seems we have a more doom and gloom sect, but that can be just Prime polarization.

Summarizing the downfall of CU football: (1) The recruiting scandal and GB's ill-fated comments led to a loss of admin support/self-imposed penalties, which really set the program back--Distephano became the guy, Bohn had no backbone and the admin failed CU football; (2) GB's worst crime was probably being such a great coach, since CU could win B12 North championships/more games with less and less talent thereby keeping CU competitive longer but the cupboards growing bare; (3) in hiring Hawkins, Bohner simply hired the wrong guy (Chris Peterson) missing that key window, then keeping him a year or two too long. We were the laughing stock of CFB once Hawkins was fired after the @KU debacle; and (4) once the CU dumpster fire was lit it has just continued on, except for one MMAC season and Prime's last season.

In a half-hearted defense of the Bohner, it is either true or myth that he wanted to fire Hawkins after Year 4 but was over-ruled by Distephano or the admin. Something about how Cody could stay without his dad being the coach. However, we know how the Bohner ended at USC and we know how his AD career ended.

As an aside, I think some of CU's (and other teams) downfall resulted from that old B12 conference. A story of beware of the Super-Conference, as CU/OU/NU were great in the Big 8 but we joined Texas. After a few years, it was apparent that the South Conference was just much stronger than the North Conference (CU, Missou, Neb all left that B-12). Eventually, the the B12 further imploded on itself with A&M, Texas and OU leaving.

We will see how these next weeks, months and years shake out with Prime, however I see much more potential entering Prime Year 4 than into Hawkins Year 4 being thrashed by Toledo and CSU. Looking back it all started with this press release, we should have known we were doomed, as love and football do not really go hand in hand. LOL

'Hawk Love' flocks to Colorado

BOULDER, Colo. -- They call it \

www.goupstate.com

 

[unibuff]

Kind of fun read- thanks for posting.

Kia Miava (SP?) was the C - I don't think he was all big 12 but was freshman all conference or all American team or something.

 

[buffaholic]

Kai

 

[MiamiBuffs]

@Sexton Hardcastle, @buffsyko, @somebody @White_Rabbit are quitters

 

[Mick Ronson]

at this point, i'd rather go fishing with Dan than have him coach the Buffs. good guy, not getting it done in year 4. he's had all the faith in the world go his way from CU fans IMO. every summer we drink the kool aid and tell ourselves we're going to be good. the game starts and we aren't any good.

i'm mixed on my feelings about Bohn, but i give him credit for getting us on national TV the last two weeks. the plate was set to be 2-0, ride some momentum and national exposure (recruiting) and the staff/players stepped on their collective cranks.

I like this Mick Ronson guy. lotta truth here.

 

[Mick Ronson]

I really liked the Tyler Hansen/Eric Kiasau offense that beat Georgia at Folsom

edit: and then?

 

[Creebuzz]

No old Hawkins thread is complete without @DBT

No one held out longer than him. I don’t think he’s ever fully trusted a coach since.

In fairness, just about everyone thought Hawk was a home run hire at first, except Boise State fans. I did learn a valuable lesson, though. You really should listen to the prevailing wisdom of opponents message boards. They aren’t always right, but they are right most of the time when it comes to their own players or coaches.

 

[GoBuffs08]

Everyone was so excited for Go Play Intramurals. To look back at the death spiral that all started that day in 2006. What could have been.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Everyone was so excited for Go Play Intramurals. To look back at the death spiral that all started that day in 2006. What could have been.

No old Hawkins thread is complete without @DBT

No one held out longer than him. I don’t think he’s ever fully trusted a coach since.

In fairness, just about everyone thought Hawk was a home run higher at first, except Boise State fans. I did learn a valuable lesson, though. You really should listen to the prevailing wisdom of opponents message boards. They aren’t always right, but they a right most of the time when it comes to their own players or coaches.

I think it was @BlackNGold that pointed out a very important warning flag: no assistant coaches followed Hawkins from BSU to CU.