What's new
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

Adding baseball & softball not as expensive as I thought

I know that Carlson is slated to become classrooms, but is has gymnastics and wrestling capabilities. We have a diving pit and bowling lanes.

Putting some numbers to it makes it clear that you are correct in the short term (under a set of generous assumptions) that the "6 sport" scenario would be much less costly, but long term (~50 yrs) they are equivalent, presuming no further facilities investment.

Under your scenario, let's presume that-
  • Carlson can be converted for use in gymnastics and wrestling without any significant political challenges from the academics wanting Carlson for use as planned
  • The updates required are maybe $10M to get Carlson updated to acceptible status
  • The diving well at CU can be updated as is without major renovation has 2 1M boards and a 3M board. NCAA requirements are for 2 1M boards, 2 3M boards, and a platform. Let's say that costs $500K
  • The bowling facilities are acceptable "as is".
  • The annual scholarship costs are $900K for all added 46 student athletes
  • Coaching salaries for all 6 sports is ~$1M total for HCs and assistants
  • The NCAA allows CU to add just a diving program- I believe all current programs are diving AND swimming
  • Field Hockey and Men's LAX requires no further facilities investment
  • Travel for all 6 teams is roughly $600K
  • The teams generate negligible revenue
Under the baseball/softball scenario, let's presume that-
  • A world-class baseball/softball facility costs about $35M- that's what South Carolina just spent to put in one of theirs.
  • Total coaching salaries are ~$1M for the two sports
  • Scholarship costs are $450K
  • Travel is roughly $400K for baseball/softball
  • Added revenue for softball/baseball is ~$300K (not unreasonable given that Arizona made $400K off of ticket/concession revenues for baseball alone in 2012)
So, the initial outlay is ~$10.5M on the 6 sport scenario (acceptable facilities) vs. $35M on a baseball/softball facility (world class facilities). Annual operating costs for the 6 sports are $2.5M, vs. $1.85M for baseball/softball, which is down to $1.55M when you consider revenues. At that rate, there is a equivalent cost at about 50 years.

However, if any of the above ssumptions were to change in favor of baseball/softball, the equivalent cost would be much sooner than 50 years.
 
Putting some numbers to it makes it clear that you are correct in the short term (under a set of generous assumptions) that the "6 sport" scenario would be much less costly, but long term (~50 yrs) they are equivalent, presuming no further facilities investment.

Under your scenario, let's presume that-
  • Carlson can be converted for use in gymnastics and wrestling without any significant political challenges from the academics wanting Carlson for use as planned
  • The updates required are maybe $10M to get Carlson updated to acceptible status
  • The diving well at CU can be updated as is without major renovation has 2 1M boards and a 3M board. NCAA requirements are for 2 1M boards, 2 3M boards, and a platform. Let's say that costs $500K
  • The bowling facilities are acceptable "as is".
  • The annual scholarship costs are $900K for all added 46 student athletes
  • Coaching salaries for all 6 sports is ~$1M total for HCs and assistants
  • The NCAA allows CU to add just a diving program- I believe all current programs are diving AND swimming
  • Field Hockey and Men's LAX requires no further facilities investment
  • Travel for all 6 teams is roughly $600K
  • The teams generate negligible revenue
Under the baseball/softball scenario, let's presume that-
  • A world-class baseball/softball facility costs about $35M- that's what South Carolina just spent to put in one of theirs.
  • Total coaching salaries are ~$1M for the two sports
  • Scholarship costs are $450K
  • Travel is roughly $400K for baseball/softball
  • Added revenue for softball/baseball is ~$300K (not unreasonable given that Arizona made $400K off of ticket/concession revenues for baseball alone in 2012)
So, the initial outlay is ~$10.5M on the 6 sport scenario (acceptable facilities) vs. $35M on a baseball/softball facility (world class facilities). Annual operating costs for the 6 sports are $2.5M, vs. $1.85M for baseball/softball, which is down to $1.55M when you consider revenues. At that rate, there is a equivalent cost at about 50 years.

However, if any of the above ssumptions were to change in favor of baseball/softball, the equivalent cost would be much sooner than 50 years.
I never suggested that we ad 6 sports; I merely pointed out that there is a large list of potential women's scholarship sports that would cost less than softball that could be used to keep Title 9 compliance for the addition of men's lacrosse and wrestling. I do not want baseball or softball.
 
Lacrosse! With the amount of success DU and Air Force have had and the growing popularity of the sport in Colorado and the west, this needs to happen. Our club team has had a lot of success and CU already attracts a lot of kids from the northeast / mid Atlantic so it theretically shouldn't be too hard to attract players from those regions especially when we're really only competing with DU and Air Force as the only programs in the west. DU already attracts a good chunk of kids from California and geographically it makes sense that we would stand to benefit from that as well.

I could see Stanford and Oregon adding programs soon so we need to lead the charge and be the pioneer program for the PAC if we want to build something special. Factor in the limited initial investment and expenses and it seems llike a low risk / high reward scenario
 
Last edited:
You are all talking about what makes the most sense for the AD, financially, where they can compete, etc. As an AD that is something to consider, but as a fan, I don't really care.

I like to watch baseball, I dislike going to Denver and paying a bunch of money, spending a ton of time driving/parking/walking to see the Rockies from seats no where near the field. I would to to and watch a quite a bit of CU baseball. Honestly the biggest problem is when they play ball, its too early in the year.
 
Men's Club Soccer is already extremely competitive as is Men's Club Lax. make the schollies work and add those two ASAP.

Also nike outfitted Men's Lax with the sharpest sets on campus.

Ca3PizqVIAAsimU.jpg:large
 
Men's Club Soccer is already extremely competitive as is Men's Club Lax. make the schollies work and add those two ASAP.

Also nike outfitted Men's Lax with the sharpest sets on campus.

Ca3PizqVIAAsimU.jpg:large
Seriously, they already treat that club like a D1 team. Financially and Title IX wise, soccer and lax make the most sense and hey it'd be a nice way to spark up some competition between DU and CU. Cant imagine that be anything but a good thing
 
I would be excited if CU added baseball. Great game, great fun. QB/Pitcher crossover too. Bu then again, CU has so many great QB's they surely don't need a crossover sport that may bring in that exceptional athlete at QB.
 
Also, keep dreaming about building on south campus. The university owns the land, but the city of Boulder has refused to issue water taps for that site. CU can build all they want, but that is quite difficult to do when you aren't able to get running water.
 
Don't know if your
Putting some numbers to it makes it clear that you are correct in the short term (under a set of generous assumptions) that the "6 sport" scenario would be much less costly, but long term (~50 yrs) they are equivalent, presuming no further facilities investment.

Under your scenario, let's presume that-
  • Carlson can be converted for use in gymnastics and wrestling without any significant political challenges from the academics wanting Carlson for use as planned
  • The updates required are maybe $10M to get Carlson updated to acceptible status
  • The diving well at CU can be updated as is without major renovation has 2 1M boards and a 3M board. NCAA requirements are for 2 1M boards, 2 3M boards, and a platform. Let's say that costs $500K
  • The bowling facilities are acceptable "as is".
  • The annual scholarship costs are $900K for all added 46 student athletes
  • Coaching salaries for all 6 sports is ~$1M total for HCs and assistants
  • The NCAA allows CU to add just a diving program- I believe all current programs are diving AND swimming
  • Field Hockey and Men's LAX requires no further facilities investment
  • Travel for all 6 teams is roughly $600K
  • The teams generate negligible revenue
Under the baseball/softball scenario, let's presume that-
  • A world-class baseball/softball facility costs about $35M- that's what South Carolina just spent to put in one of theirs.
  • Total coaching salaries are ~$1M for the two sports
  • Scholarship costs are $450K
  • Travel is roughly $400K for baseball/softball
  • Added revenue for softball/baseball is ~$300K (not unreasonable given that Arizona made $400K off of ticket/concession revenues for baseball alone in 2012)
So, the initial outlay is ~$10.5M on the 6 sport scenario (acceptable facilities) vs. $35M on a baseball/softball facility (world class facilities). Annual operating costs for the 6 sports are $2.5M, vs. $1.85M for baseball/softball, which is down to $1.55M when you consider revenues. At that rate, there is a equivalent cost at about 50 years.

However, if any of the above ssumptions were to change in favor of baseball/softball, the equivalent cost would be much sooner than 50 years.

Just a couple comments-

I don't know if it's fair to just assume revenues from baseball and softball would be higher than those from other sports that might be added. In addition to Men's Lax already showing signs at the club level that it could earn some revenue, I'd think there's also opportunities in at least a couple of the the indoor sports, especially gymnastics. I'd never looked at NCAA gymnastics attendance before, but it looks like it's the top draw for women's sports at many colleges (https://www.roadtonationals.com/results/charts/ch_attendance_current.php shows average gymnastics attendance). Of course, it's presumptuous to think CU would grab the "brass ring" and have the sport become huge (like it evidently is at Utah, whose average gymnastics attendance of ~13,700 last year was I believe the highest average of ANY woman's sports team at ANY school), but even a school like UCLA, which has a pretty apathetic fan base in general (or maybe just massive traffic trauma?), averages over 6,000 in gymnastics (vs. ~800 for volleyball and ~1,800 for women's basketball and 7,700 for MEN'S basketball). (And, for local reference, DU averaged a decent 1,900 for gymnastics also.)

Conversely, the top baseball attendance in the Pac last year (From a "Misc Report" at http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport_code=MBA&division=1) was ASU at 3,014, and Utah (closest to being our "weather brother") only averaged ~1,300. (I couldn't find attendance stats listed for softball or wrestling in the NCAA stats site.)

Re facilities for the indoor sports such as gymnastics and wrestling, I'd assume that their home competitions would just take place at Coors, so practice facilities are mainly all that's needed (other than of course mats and so forth). Were there contingency plans already developed during the initial design phase of the Practice Facility next to the Keg to expand it to add additional indoor sports relatively economically (so the new sports could take advantage of the weight, medical, recovery etc. equipment already there)? If so, what would the additional costs be? (I have no idea.)
 
True beach volleyball might be tough with the snow in Boulder. Can it also be played indoors?
 
There is a sand volleyball complex in Broomfield with a bunch of indoor courts plus several outdoor courts. But I don't know if NCAA rules require it to all be outdoors. Nebraska has a sand team tho and their weather isn't much better.
 
Or soccer!

I've been wanting men's soccer for so long. Since the 90's, Colorado has had one of the best youth systems in the country. DU has finally capitalized on it & they're regularly going to NCAAs & bringing in top recruiting classes made up of a lot of CO kids.
 
North Dakota just cut Men's Golf and Men's Baseball. UND has had baseball since the 60's and previously before that. If you can play baseball in Grand Forks, you can play in Boulder.
 
North Dakota just cut Men's Golf and Men's Baseball. UND has had baseball since the 60's and previously before that. If you can play baseball in Grand Forks, you can play in Boulder.
Yes but, apparently you can't play baseball in Grand Forks.

As an aside, during my brief incarceration in Fargo, I got to go to several F-M RedHawks games. Northern league baseball is great.
 
Watched UCLA-Oregon bball last night, I really wish CU would pick it up, I would go.
 
you would be one of only a few.

I don't think he would. We are the only Pac12 school without it and the conference has been very good at baseball thru the years. Also could not hurt in certain football recruiting situations either. Baseball would be a good add for CU when the revenue situation with football gets straightened out. Need to solely focus on football revenue cirst
 
I don't think he would. We are the only Pac12 school without it and the conference has been very good at baseball thru the years. Also could not hurt in certain football recruiting situations either. Baseball would be a good add for CU when the revenue situation with football gets straightened out. Need to solely focus on football revenue cirst

I can tell you, in my area at least, there are just as many football fall/ lax spring athletes as there are football fall/ baseball spring ones. I expect this trend to continue.
 
I can tell you, in my area at least, there are just as many football fall/ lax spring athletes as there are football fall/ baseball spring ones. I expect this trend to continue.

Not disagreeing on this point. LAX is a great sport as well I just think it comes after baseball
 
I don't think he would. We are the only Pac12 school without it and the conference has been very good at baseball thru the years. Also could not hurt in certain football recruiting situations either. Baseball would be a good add for CU when the revenue situation with football gets straightened out. Need to solely focus on football revenue cirst

Also only Pac12 school without softball.
 
Back
Top