Do we fire Mac?

[4BienemyTDs]

So, when does something start happening? When is there going to be action on assistants?
The early signing is a new twist, and RG has got to encourage a different approach to firing and hiring assistants this year, since the Tumpkin thing cannot be an excuse for the crap that happened last year. Sooooo many good assistants are out there, and anybody that is high on the recruiting rankings as far as assistants go should be contacted!!! I am hearing that Troy Walters is the likely leading candidate for the UCF Job once Frost leaves, and that is a good thing because I do not want him in a red f-ing shirt on the sideline next year coaching against us!

 

[MiamiBuffs]

So, you hire a coach to a job that you know is a project. Really, a dumbster fire. You expect him to build your team. Over the first 3 seasons you see steady improvement, without getting over the hump. In season 4 you get over the hump and win 10 games with the best recruiting class in 10 years coming in the door. You're going to go back to that coach and tell him he has to prove it even more? Not a good look, and not a good message you send to other coaching candidates.

I think Mac IS a good coach, and he has proven to be a good coach. But he doesn't value recruiting and he isn't heartless enough to manage a staff at the P5 level. A coach like that will flash every 4 or 5 years, when he has a veteran team.

Well said.

The drubbing by UW and OSU aren't a good look - but can be explained a couple of ways when you're evaluating it at the time. 1) Injuries 2) Team not ready for the spotlight 3) Leavitt/Tumpkin situation

As for the head-butting between he and Leavitt.... that **** happens, and Mac hired Leavitt in the first place. And who knows what Mac is saying in regards to recruiting - but the class last year looked like a huge step forward, so maybe RG figured recruiting was shaping up as well.

The P5 staff stuff is true and would have given me pause... but you let Mac do it his way and he got you to the P12 championship game... how much of that are you going to question?

We knew we were not going to be 10 wins again. Unfortunately the amount of drop off is what shocked everyone and has created all this doubt.

We'll see as they say.

 

[onealcd]

Well said.



We knew we were not going to be 10 wins again. Unfortunately the amount of drop off is what shocked everyone and has created all this doubt.

We'll see as they say.

The amount of dropoff is not what shocked everyone we all expected that, it was the mistakes that allowed us to lose close games we had no business losing that pissed people off.

 

[leftybuff]

So, when does something start happening? When is there going to be action on assistants?
The early signing is a new twist, and RG has got to encourage a different approach to firing and hiring assistants this year, since the Tumpkin thing cannot be an excuse for the crap that happened last year. Sooooo many good assistants are out there, and anybody that is high on the recruiting rankings as far as assistants go should be contacted!!! I am hearing that Troy Walters is the likely leading candidate for the UCF Job once Frost leaves, and that is a good thing because I do not want him in a red f-ing shirt on the sideline next year coaching against us!

As to the bold...recall when Baer and LaRussa were eased out late December. How long did it take to get replacements? Look at how long it took to replace Leavitt and Clark. If anybody gets let go, it will be sometime in January, at the earliest. Their replacement will be named shortly before Spring ball. Then we will all scramble to google to see who the replacements are, because none of us will have heard of them.

 

[Buffnik]

Well said.



We knew we were not going to be 10 wins again. Unfortunately the amount of drop off is what shocked everyone and has created all this doubt.

We'll see as they say.

Yep. Really strong posts from @dio in this thread. Particularly since he hasn't been either a fanboi or a hater over MM's 5 years.

 

[hokiehead]

Weird to me that people are questioning the extension. Mac had just won NCOTY and had a good recruiting class coming in, as well as a Top 20 finish after this team had gone a decade long bowl drought. Big wins throughout the season...

I didn't question it at the time, but looking back now and reading on another thread how RG spent all his political capitol with the university administration to get that pushed through, after one decent year which actually ended very poorly....

it doesn't seem like it was RG's smartest move ever.

 

[hokiehead]

If you have not noticed, the coaching carousel is a **** show. Demand dramatically outpaces supply when it comes to college football coaches.

A coach coming off a 10-win season always has the leverage.

he had leverage in November 2016. I'm not sure he had leverage to warrant a 250% salary increase by the time June 2017 rolled around.

 

[Buffnik]

I didn't question it at the time, but looking back now and reading on another thread how RG spent all his political capitol with the university administration to get that pushed through, after one decent year which actually ended very poorly....

it doesn't seem like it was RG's smartest move ever.

I'll give you a little insight into CU and its politics here. For RG, this was not as much about MacIntyre. Just as the deal with Eliot wasn't so much about Eliot. What he has done is re-set the scale at CU. We're no longer a program that pays $1.5M-$2M for a HC and $400-450k for coordinators. CU is now over $3M for a HC and $700k for a coordinator and can go up from there. We're also a place where the pool for assistants is over $3M (used to be half that) along with being able to offer them all long-term deals. This is not a game of checkers RG played for 2018 and 2019. This is a game of 3D chess RG played to position us for the next decade and more of CU football.

 

[hokiehead]

I'll give you a little insight into CU and its politics here. For RG, this was not as much about MacIntyre. Just as the deal with Eliot wasn't so much about Eliot. What he has done is re-set the scale at CU. We're no longer a program that pays $1.5M-$2M for a HC and $400-450k for coordinators. CU is now over $3M for a HC and $700k for a coordinator and can go up from there. We're also a place where the pool for assistants is over $3M (used to be half that) along with being able to offer them all long-term deals. This is not a game of checkers RG played for 2018 and 2019. This is a game of 3D chess RG played to position us for the next decade and more of CU football.

makes sense. you're saying he took a risk on MM to gain long term benefit for the football team. presumably, risk of a 2017 let-down was part of the calculus in that gamble.

 

[aghcsm]

So, you hire a coach to a job that you know is a project. Really, a dumbster fire. You expect him to build your team. Over the first 3 seasons you see steady improvement, without getting over the hump. In season 4 you get over the hump and win 10 games with the best recruiting class in 10 years coming in the door. You're going to go back to that coach and tell him he has to prove it even more? Not a good look, and not a good message you send to other coaching candidates.

I think Mac IS a good coach, and he has proven to be a good coach. But he doesn't value recruiting and he isn't heartless enough to manage a staff at the P5 level. A coach like that will flash every 4 or 5 years, when he has a veteran team.

As you note in years 2 & 3 the Buffs were on the verge of getting “over the hump.” They could have won 6-8 games those years with just one ‘lucky bounce’ in each of several games. Or if Sefo has come into his own earlier. Those 2 years were extremely frustrating for us all. But the smashing success of year 4 seemed to confirm that yes, MM had actually come through, and the Rise was real.

This year was a disaster and restored doubts in most of our minds. Personally I have no idea what to think about MM as a HC. Next year could be telling...or not.

 

[mdbuff97]

I can only surmise that since the tumpkin situation, MM checked out.

No joke, I was wondering why his attitude appeared to change this year. I think this was a MASSIVE contributing factor.

I had us pegged at a 6-6 year at the close of 2016, but after the performances in the non-con, I’m happy we won 5 this year. I’m guessing 6-6 next year with 2019 being the 8-4 year. Then MM moves on to different (not necessarily greener) pastures.

 

[mdbuff97]

I'll give you a little insight into CU and its politics here. For RG, this was not as much about MacIntyre. Just as the deal with Eliot wasn't so much about Eliot. What he has done is re-set the scale at CU. We're no longer a program that pays $1.5M-$2M for a HC and $400-450k for coordinators. CU is now over $3M for a HC and $700k for a coordinator and can go up from there. We're also a place where the pool for assistants is over $3M (used to be half that) along with being able to offer them all long-term deals. This is not a game of checkers RG played for 2018 and 2019. This is a game of 3D chess RG played to position us for the next decade and more of CU football.

This 100%. RG is doing the long game and laying the groundwork for a new HC to trust him as the AD.

 

[ahoelsken]

No joke, I was wondering why his attitude appeared to change this year. I think this was a MASSIVE contributing factor.

I had us pegged at a 6-6 year at the close of 2016, but after the performances in the non-con, I’m happy we won 5 this year. I’m guessing 6-6 next year with 2019 being the 8-4 year. Then MM moves on to different (not necessarily greener) pastures.

I think he might need more than that to earn 2019. OOC should be no worse than 2-1 (with the loss, if it comes, in Lincoln-he can't afford a loss to CSU). Consider the home schedule-UCLA will be in year one and building with Chip Kelly, and will probably have a fair amount of Mora players trying to fit in that scheme. Oregon State is a mess. Fork U will be fairly equal to us, especially given Ray Anderson's thinking with respect to their search. WSU should be a little down-No Falk, and if Leach is willing to consider and possibly come to a handshake agreement with Tennessee.......he's not a sure thing to return. Utah is Utah-this year was an exception..........because our program thought MM was heading to Oxford after the game. Expect another close one. He's gotta do better than 3 or 4 wins in conference.

 

[AllStarBuffs]

I'll give you a little insight into CU and its politics here. For RG, this was not as much about MacIntyre. Just as the deal with Eliot wasn't so much about Eliot. What he has done is re-set the scale at CU. We're no longer a program that pays $1.5M-$2M for a HC and $400-450k for coordinators. CU is now over $3M for a HC and $700k for a coordinator and can go up from there. We're also a place where the pool for assistants is over $3M (used to be half that) along with being able to offer them all long-term deals. This is not a game of checkers RG played for 2018 and 2019. This is a game of 3D chess RG played to position us for the next decade and more of CU football.

Is it safe to put the "CU is not an attractive spot for potential coaches" argument to bed? I mean, if your record is 25-38 (.397) and you make 3 Mil a year, that is a pretty damn good gig to have!

 

[mdbuff97]

I think he might need more than that to earn 2019. OOC should be no worse than 2-1 (with the loss, if it comes, in Lincoln-he can't afford a loss to CSU). Consider the home schedule-UCLA will be in year one and building with Chip Kelly, and will probably have a fair amount of Mora players trying to fit in that scheme. Oregon State is a mess. Fork U will be fairly equal to us, especially given Ray Anderson's thinking with respect to their search. WSU should be a little down-No Falk, and if Leach is willing to consider and possibly come to a handshake agreement with Tennessee.......he's not a sure thing to return. Utah is Utah-this year was an exception..........because our program thought MM was heading to Oxford after the game. Expect another close one. He's gotta do better than 3 or 4 wins in conference.

Completely fair points, and I agree with almost all of it. We were not as talented or as experienced this year which showed (no excuse on the O-Line, what a joke). This team could go 7-6 or 8-4 in 2018 with real leadership; coaches and players, but that is not what I see in the cards. I think MM gets through 2019 on marginal performance based solely off the contract buyout terms alone. Treading water with a bowl game for the next two years will be tolerated from just a financial standpoint. Buyout is just shy of $10,000,000 next year, after 2019 it drops to just under $7,000,000. I think that $10,000,000 will buy patience from the AD, not from the fans.

In fairness, the current MM years are not the 2009-2010 Hawkins years, where you could circle 7-9 losses on the schedule before the spring game. Next year, we can legit play against and beat almost every team on the schedule (I'm saying that and I'm not drunk).

 

[ahoelsken]

Completely fair points, and I agree with almost all of it. We were not as talented or as experienced this year which showed (no excuse on the O-Line, what a joke). This team could go 7-6 or 8-4 in 2018 with real leadership; coaches and players, but that is not what I see in the cards. I think MM gets through 2019 on marginal performance based solely off the contract buyout terms alone. Treading water with a bowl game for the next two years will be tolerated from just a financial standpoint. Buyout is just shy of $10,000,000 next year, after 2019 it drops to just under $7,000,000. I think that $10,000,000 will buy patience from the AD, not from the fans.

In fairness, the current MM years are not the 2009-2010 Hawkins years, where you could circle 7-9 losses on the schedule before the spring game. Next year, we can legit play against and beat almost every team on the schedule (I'm saying that and I'm not drunk).

These teams are better than those, but that's the same type of thinking we saw then. If we back into a bowl the next couple years.......he probably stays. 5-7 or worse next year and we're making a coaching change. RG is not Mike Bohn-he's not the type who will talk about winning Pac 12 championships and competing for playoff spots and then keeps around a coach who can't meet those goals. The 2019 OOC brings visits from not Nebraska....but Air Force as well. Two really easy sellouts. That $10m can be made up easily-and its also a contract that allows the buyout to be paid out over the life of the contract, versus in 2 months (a la Kevin Sumlin)

 

[mdbuff97]

If we back into a bowl the next couple years.......he probably stays.

This will happen. We are going bowling next year; not a New Year's bowl, but a bowl. MM through 2019. Barring crazy attrition we will be much better in 2019 too.

 

[DBT]

I'll give you a little insight into CU and its politics here. For RG, this was not as much about MacIntyre. Just as the deal with Eliot wasn't so much about Eliot. What he has done is re-set the scale at CU. We're no longer a program that pays $1.5M-$2M for a HC and $400-450k for coordinators. CU is now over $3M for a HC and $700k for a coordinator and can go up from there. We're also a place where the pool for assistants is over $3M (used to be half that) along with being able to offer them all long-term deals. This is not a game of checkers RG played for 2018 and 2019. This is a game of 3D chess RG played to position us for the next decade and more of CU football.

I was thinking along those lines and was going to post something. I’m glad you beat me too it because your wordsmithing is way better than mine would’ve been. I was going to speak more along the lines of the bad look and negative reputation it would’ve given if we had lowballed Mac after the year he’d had. We’d have looked Bush League.

 

[89BUFF89]

Unless we find/develop some tough linemen on both sides of the football we are going to struggle again next season to control the LOS, which will determine a lot of games

 

[ahoelsken]

This will happen. We are going bowling next year; not a New Year's bowl, but a bowl. MM through 2019. Barring crazy attrition we will be much better in 2019 too.

MM has to do some soul searching this off-season-he clearly isn't committed to this team right now, and we saw that all fall. If he re-commits to the job he has, we can get to 8-4.

 

[Burrito]

Eventually.

 

[CULifer]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...r-qb-shea-patterson-explore-transfer-options/
This is what MM was doing at Ole Miss. Shea to CU, lol! /sarcasm

 

[J.R. Ewing]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...r-qb-shea-patterson-explore-transfer-options/
This is what MM was doing at Ole Miss. Shea to CU, lol! /sarcasm

Ole Miss is cellar bound.

 

[Go Buffs]

MM has to do some soul searching this off-season-he clearly isn't committed to this team right now, and we saw that all fall. If he re-commits to the job he has, we can get to 8-4.

 

[8Jah]

Thought Howell's take on this season yesterday was pretty much spot on.

http://www.buffzone.com/football-cu...football-review-bad-offseason-set-tone-losing

Defensive troubles were expected this year and we had them. It was the vaunted offense that really underperformed and more than anything else it was the coaching...particularly the head coaching.

"Yet, it all starts at the top. MacIntyre was unable to find the right formula to win with this team, which too often looked undisciplined or unprepared."

Outside the Washington State and the Utah games we were close in all the games we played. We looked as talented on the field as those other teams (but for USC and Washington). Our guys could pretty much hang with Washington and USC; the latter of which is probably one of the top four teams in the country right now. Despite what people say on this board, we were very similar talent wise to the 2016 team which managed to win all those close games (Oregon, Stanford, Utah, Washington State) and blow out the teams that were struggling last year (Arizona State, Oregon State, Arizona). The main difference is that we lacked toughness and preparation. Our off-season was soft...and that is where this season went to hell. We have multiple lines of evidence now that this was the case. Last year JL's implicit criticism of MM hits the mark; "Team's got to work."

It looks like we have another year of MM. He's got to study what was different culturally in 2016 and figure out how to get his whole organization to work this next spring and off-season.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

Thought Howell's take on this season yesterday was pretty much spot on.

http://www.buffzone.com/football-cu...football-review-bad-offseason-set-tone-losing

Defensive troubles were expected this year and we had them. It was the vaunted offense that really underperformed and more than anything else it was the coaching...particularly the head coaching.

"Yet, it all starts at the top. MacIntyre was unable to find the right formula to win with this team, which too often looked undisciplined or unprepared."

Outside the Washington State and the Utah games we were close in all the games we played. We looked as talented on the field as those other teams (but for USC and Washington). Our guys could pretty much hang with Washington and USC; the latter of which is probably one of the top four teams in the country right now. Despite what people say on this board, we were very similar talent wise to the 2016 team which managed to win all those close games (Oregon, Stanford, Utah, Washington State) and blow out the teams that were struggling last year (Arizona State, Oregon State, Arizona). The main difference is that we lacked toughness and preparation. Our off-season was soft...and that is where this season went to hell. We have multiple lines of evidence now that this was the case. Last year JL's implicit criticism of MM hits the mark; "Team's got to work."

It looks like we have another year of MM. He's got to study what was different culturally in 2016 and figure out how to get his whole organization to work this next spring and off-season.

Can anyone that knows the insights into how Coach MM approaches his practices and his training of a team tell me about what his practices look like?

I ask because I was watching a post practice video from mid-November and the question was asked about "Coaching the younger players", and his response was that "They could coach up the younger players after normal practices on Tuesday and Thursday." So, does that mean that the YOUNGER players do not get anywhere close to the same amount of reps as the older players, and anyone lower on the depth chart just sits around and watches the older guys? I cannot stand watching our starters play so many snaps, and just wonder where he got this attitude that younger players should just stand around for 3 years before they get a chance to play and get reps. Yet, there are endless examples and articles about how much impact and how fresh the younger players are! Trying to fully understand who Mike Macintyre is as a coach over these next 9 months before next season. We know his not getting fired, so I am just digging deeper into understanding him.

 

[J-R-K]

If you have not noticed, the coaching carousel is a **** show. Demand dramatically outpaces supply when it comes to college football coaches.

A coach coming off a 10-win season always has the leverage.

This is a potentially good point....except for the fact that when he agreed to the original contract extension the coaching carousel had stopped. All the jobs had already been filled. So again what leverage did he have?

No one seriously considered hiring him, and even if something did materialize we could have attempted to extended him at that point. This is actually a frequent occurrence...look at all the coaches this year who turned offers/interest from other schools into new contracts from their current employer. RG on the other hand decided to negotiate against himself.

 

[Duff Man]

This is a potentially good point....except for the fact that when he agreed to the original contract extension the coaching carousel had stopped. All the jobs had already been filled. So again what leverage did he have?

No one seriously considered hiring him, and even if something did materialize we could have attempted to extended him at that point. This is actually a frequent occurrence...look at all the coaches this year who turned offers/interest from other schools into new contracts from their current employer. RG on the other hand decided to negotiate against himself.

You act as if there was no risk on RG's part if he suddenly and dramatically changed contract terms. The carousel should not just be viewed strictly in an immediate, narrow window.

RG was definitely not just negotiating against himself. There is still a market rate.

 

[J-R-K]

I'll give you a little insight into CU and its politics here. For RG, this was not as much about MacIntyre. Just as the deal with Eliot wasn't so much about Eliot. What he has done is re-set the scale at CU. We're no longer a program that pays $1.5M-$2M for a HC and $400-450k for coordinators. CU is now over $3M for a HC and $700k for a coordinator and can go up from there. We're also a place where the pool for assistants is over $3M (used to be half that) along with being able to offer them all long-term deals. This is not a game of checkers RG played for 2018 and 2019. This is a game of 3D chess RG played to position us for the next decade and more of CU football.

Fair enough. But this doesn't explain why his contract was fully guaranteed.

Chip Kelly is 46-7 as a collegiate head coach, yet if UCLA were to fire him today they would owe him less then half of his contract. If Florida were to fire Dan Mullen today he would only get one-third of his contract. (These are just two examples of many) Yet somehow if we were to fire Macintyre today we'd have to pay him the entirety of his remaining contract. How does a guy whose 3-40 in his career as a head coach against power conference bowl teams get more favorable contract terms then significantly better coaches? Explain that Rick George.

 

[vinniew_11]

Fair enough. But this doesn't explain why his contract was fully guaranteed.

Chip Kelly is 46-7 as a collegiate head coach, yet if UCLA were to fire him today they would owe him less then half of his contract. If Florida were to fire Dan Mullen today he would only get one-third of his contract. (These are just two examples of many) Yet somehow if we were to fire Macintyre today we'd have to play him the entirety of his remaining contract. How does a guy whose 3-40 in his career as a head coach against power conference bowl teams get more favorable contract terms then significantly better coaches? Explain that Rick George.

RG is a pretty smart man so there obviously is a valid reason. Possibly a state law? Something about being a State employee?