Lookalike & Game thread - RV (AP poll)/ #22 (NET rankings) Men's bball hosts #81 (NET) OSU (Boulder, Sunday, 1/05, 4:00 PM MT, ESPNU)

[toohip]

Just dawned on me - where was Parquet??? Did I miss something???

Saw him . . once. He's a better defender, but. . .

 

[toohip]

From article in the Post today. . Battey quoting. . .“Coach Boyle writes on the wipe board before the game, and we didn’t do those things,” CU forward Evan Battey said. “Oregon State, keep them out of the paint, and they score 42 points in the paint. Northern Iowa, take away threes, and they scored (14) threes. Our coaching staff puts stuff up that gives us the best chance to be successful. It’s up to us to execute that.” You can't just "state" the issue, . . you've to coach it, practice it, and execute it.

Addressing defensive lapses, attention to detail the focus for CU basketball

For the players, the ache left behind after the sort of late collapse suffered by the Colorado Buffaloes on Sunday often can only be soothed by getting back on the floor and taking it out on the ne…

www.denverpost.com

 

[manhattanbuff]

From article in the Post today. . Battey quoting. . .“Coach Boyle writes on the wipe board before the game, and we didn’t do those things,” CU forward Evan Battey said. “Oregon State, keep them out of the paint, and they score 42 points in the paint. Northern Iowa, take away threes, and they scored (14) threes. Our coaching staff puts stuff up that gives us the best chance to be successful. It’s up to us to execute that.” You can't just "state" the issue, . . you've to coach it, practice it, and execute it.

Addressing defensive lapses, attention to detail the focus for CU basketball

For the players, the ache left behind after the sort of late collapse suffered by the Colorado Buffaloes on Sunday often can only be soothed by getting back on the floor and taking it out on the ne…

www.denverpost.com

This is definitely true, but only the coach will make six figures this month.

 

[68buffs]

Based on the various comments, the coaches game planned for seeing the press and the 1-3-1. They worked to prepare the team for those looks and kept them aware throughout the game that it was coming. Tad even called a timeout after OSU started that, but we turned the ball over on the possession immediately out of that TO.

Lots of blame to go around. It's a bottom line world. Players failed to execute. Coaches failed to prepare the team - more so because they thought they had done so but clearly had not gotten through to them.

Your last sentence. This is Tads problem his whole career and why his teams have always had inexcusable losses. The question now is how does he fix this, because this issue is in his DNA.

 

[rodrigo]

To open: I do not believe TB should be fired. His teams frustrate the f*** out of me but I truly appreciate the historical and “who could CU get that would be better” perspectives.

Still, it seems somewhat weird to me how in fb there is little patience for coaches with a stubborn streak and style that generates “well, we are CU after all” results but that the same isn’t true for bb.

I get that the sports are different, and by no means intend to equate Tad and someone like FHCMM, but I’m genuinely curious about what looks to me like a double standard by some on this forum.

 

[Darth Snow]

To open: I do not believe TB should be fired. His teams frustrate the f*** out of me but I truly appreciate the historical and “who could CU get that would be better” perspectives.

Still, it seems somewhat weird to me how in fb there is little patience for coaches with a stubborn streak and style that generates “well, we are CU after all” results but that the same isn’t true for bb.

I get that the sports are different, and by no means intend to equate Tad and someone like FHCMM, but I’m genuinely curious about what looks to me like a double standard by some on this forum.

Mm never produced the results tad has

 

[rodrigo]

Mm never produced the results tad has

Yes. And I noted as much. Thanks for helping, tho

 

[Buffnik]

To open: I do not believe TB should be fired. His teams frustrate the f*** out of me but I truly appreciate the historical and “who could CU get that would be better” perspectives.

Still, it seems somewhat weird to me how in fb there is little patience for coaches with a stubborn streak and style that generates “well, we are CU after all” results but that the same isn’t true for bb.

I get that the sports are different, and by no means intend to equate Tad and someone like FHCMM, but I’m genuinely curious about what looks to me like a double standard by some on this forum.

If a FB coach got us to the post-season in 8/9 years with 1 conference championship and being in one of the better bowls in 4 of those seasons, we'd be pretty damn supportive. We'd also be saying that it's not our ceiling as a program and football, given our history and culture, has a significantly higher ceiling than basketball at CU.

 

[rodrigo]

If a FB coach got us to the post-season in 8/9 years with 1 conference championship and being in one of the better bowls in 4 of those seasons, we'd be pretty damn supportive. We'd also be saying that it's not our ceiling as a program and football, given our history and culture, has a significantly higher ceiling than basketball at CU.

Ok, but arguably the program is going backwards - no NCAA since 2016, one of those postseasons was a CBI bid in 2015 and the team that didn't reach the post season was in 2018. Sure there were three NIT bids, but two were one and done and the other - a great run to the semis - was in 2011 (I was at the Alabama game in the Garden... I was the loudest asshole in the place).

Last year was pretty good - but that made everyone think this year would be special. There is obviously a long way to go, so we'll see.

But the bigger argument here is about living up to expectations and what those should be. Maybe your are right and this is just where CU basketball peaks - NIT bids most seasons, the occasional dance bid. I'm just one guy, but to me that sucks.

 

[Buffnik]

Ok, but arguably the program is going backwards - no NCAA since 2016, one of those postseasons was a CBI bid in 2015 and the team that didn't reach the post season was in 2018. Sure there were three NIT bids, but two were one and done and the other - a great run to the semis - was in 2011 (I was at the Alabama game in the Garden... I was the loudest asshole in the place).

Last year was pretty good - but that made everyone think this year would be special. There is obviously a long way to go, so we'll see.

But the bigger argument here is about living up to expectations and what those should be. Maybe your are right and this is just where CU basketball peaks - NIT bids most seasons, the occasional dance bid. I'm just one guy, but to me that sucks.

For the record, I don’t believe MBB has hit its ceiling and I also believe this was a downspell for the program that was largely driven by some missteps in recruiting at the time we were moving on from Dre & Spencer. We saw a re-set on the program with Kin & Bey, IMO. I expected success this year. What I’m really watching is how well we’re able to move on from these guys when the time comes.

 

[Highlander]

For the record, I don’t believe MBB has hit its ceiling and I also believe this was a downspell for the program that was largely driven by some missteps in recruiting at the time we were moving on from Dre & Spencer. We saw a re-set on the program with Kin & Bey, IMO. I expected success this year. What I’m really watching is how well we’re able to move on from these guys when the time comes.

Please don't consider this combative, Nik, but the thought has come to me: What should our expectations for BBall be?

We dance (no pun intended, I swear!) around the idea that the program is much higher than the floor, and we talk about the program *might* be better in the future, but based on facilities, support, coaching,etc., what should our expectations be:

a) If you don't dance, it is a failure for an individual season
b) Dancing mostly, NIT sometimes is acceptable
c) Occasional dancing, some NIT, some other

I learn towards B for now, but A as my goal.

Is that a reasonable expectation for CU Hoops as it is currently constructed?

 

[hokiehead]

I'm surprised at how many posters seem to be indicating that "post season appearances" are a sign of some success for a basketball program.

I'm sorry, but a CBI invite is shít (the game wasn't even televised). An NIT invite is something less than a kiss from your sister.

NCAA appearances are a sign of success. Conference championships, whether regular season or tourny, are a sign of success.

 

[Buffnik]

Please don't consider this combative, Nik, but the thought has come to me: What should our expectations for BBall be?

We dance (no pun intended, I swear!) around the idea that the program is much higher than the floor, and we talk about the program *might* be better in the future, but based on facilities, support, coaching,etc., what should our expectations be:

a) If you don't dance, it is a failure for an individual season
b) Dancing mostly, NIT sometimes is acceptable
c) Occasional dancing, some NIT, some other

I learn towards B for now, but A as my goal.

Is that a reasonable expectation for CU Hoops as it is currently constructed?

I think "B" is about right. I'd like to get to the point where an NIT season is the floor and is maybe only 2-3 times a decade. With that, I'd like to see us make the Round of 32 more often than not when we Dance and start seeing some runs into the 2nd weekend. Cutting down any nets to see the Final Four feels like a pipe dream right now, but it became a more realistic dream after seeing the recent runs made by South Carolina and Texas Tech based on a style/program mentality on defense that's in the same lane of what Tad preaches.

I'm talking about goals and program ceilings here, though. That's different than expectations. It's even different than what I'd call "successful" at CU. If every Pac-12 program had the same head coach and success was determined by the basic program attributes (tradition/prestige, organizational size, recruiting budget, staff budget, facilities, location [both for recruiting & ease of getting talent to visit/connect as well as desirability as a place to spend 4 years], value of the degree, hotness of women students, fan support, recent success, players drafted/thriving in NBA, etc.] -- CU MBB's natural rank is in the bottom half of the conference and probably the bottom third. Consistently outperforming that program DNA is a sure sign of an excellent coaching job but it also elevates that program DNA. I think Tad's making good progress at elevating CU MBB into the top half of the conference as a program, but it's a work in progress that wasn't going to happen overnight. Especially since CU and Tad are not willing to get dirty to accelerate this.

 

[Daaah]

I'm surprised at how many posters seem to be indicating that "post season appearances" are a sign of some success for a basketball program.

I'm sorry, but a CBI invite is shít (the game wasn't even televised). An NIT invite is something less than a kiss from your sister.

NCAA appearances are a sign of success. Conference championships, whether regular season or tourny, are a sign of success.

Agreed completely. I mean didn't Tad even say he wouldn't bother with the cbi anymore and the NIT is only worth anything if you win it, and even then, not much.

 

[aghcsm]

I'm surprised at how many posters seem to be indicating that "post season appearances" are a sign of some success for a basketball program.

I'm sorry, but a CBI invite is shít (the game wasn't even televised). An NIT invite is something less than a kiss from your sister.

NCAA appearances are a sign of success. Conference championships, whether regular season or tourny, are a sign of success.

Not only is there very little upside to playing in and winning the CBI, but there’s a high risk that the low level of interest from fans, coaches and players will result in concluding the season on a sour note, like losing to Seattle.

 

[ahoelsken]

Not with a full week of practice between games. They'll be fine. Utah is also a better match up for us. We win by 10-12.

I expect this team to respond Saturday just like they did after the Rodents beat us here last year.

 

[dyemeduke]

I think "B" is about right. I'd like to get to the point where an NIT season is the floor and is maybe only 2-3 times a decade. With that, I'd like to see us make the Round of 32 more often than not when we Dance and start seeing some runs into the 2nd weekend. Cutting down any nets to see the Final Four feels like a pipe dream right now, but it became a more realistic dream after seeing the recent runs made by South Carolina and Texas Tech based on a style/program mentality on defense that's in the same lane of what Tad preaches.

I'm talking about goals and program ceilings here, though. That's different than expectations. It's even different than what I'd call "successful" at CU. If every Pac-12 program had the same head coach and success was determined by the basic program attributes (tradition/prestige, organizational size, recruiting budget, staff budget, facilities, location [both for recruiting & ease of getting talent to visit/connect as well as desirability as a place to spend 4 years], value of the degree, hotness of women students, fan support, recent success, players drafted/thriving in NBA, etc.] -- CU MBB's natural rank is in the bottom half of the conference and probably the bottom third. Consistently outperforming that program DNA is a sure sign of an excellent coaching job but it also elevates that program DNA. I think Tad's making good progress at elevating CU MBB into the top half of the conference as a program, but it's a work in progress that wasn't going to happen overnight. Especially since CU and Tad are not willing to get dirty to accelerate this.

Perhaps I'm misremembering a little, but I think at one time, you and I at least were on the same page of wanting the team to make the tournament about half the time. So with that said, the floor to me is a rebuilding year of not making the NIT (like when this current group of juniors graduates), and a ceiling is S16, barring a miraculous run or group of players. I think making the tournament 70-80% of the time is too high of an expectation for our program. I'd love for us to get there, but based on history (even Tad's history), as well as other programs I'd like for us to be on par with, I think 70-80% tournament is difficult to achieve.

 

[Buffnik]

Perhaps I'm misremembering a little, but I think at one time, you and I at least were on the same page of wanting the team to make the tournament about half the time. So with that said, the floor to me is a rebuilding year of not making the NIT (like when this current group of juniors graduates), and a ceiling is S16, barring a miraculous run or group of players. I think making the tournament 70-80% of the time is too high of an expectation for our program. I'd love for us to get there, but based on history (even Tad's history), as well as other programs I'd like for us to be on par with, I think 70-80% tournament is difficult to achieve.

Very difficult. That's why I said it was an aspirational goal and then qualified that it wasn't an expectation. There's a path to having a ceiling like we saw at Wisconsin under Bo Ryan or Utah under Rick Majerus or Pitt under Jamie Dixon. Basically, where we become a program in that best 15-35 range over a set of years rather than being in that next group of a high NIT / low NCAA level program. A lot of things have to go right for CU to get there, though. However, I believe that Tad has set the stage where it is feasible to become that.