Montez’s 2018 Season - Thoughts?

[Buffnik]

I was referring to the last line of, "No reason to even hire football people as OCs these days. Would be better to hire someone who won a competition of Madden with play calling and audibles turned on but with the actual game play on AI". Tini could not be an OC at any level.

I don't know, man. We've seen smart people end up running the personnel side despite being numbers guys instead of sports guys. "Moneyball" in baseball and now in the NBA looking at advanced metrics for putting teams together. We've seen that also happening with coaching and how metrics determine matchups and play calling. Coaches being former players is one thing for a position coach, but coordinators are trending toward analytical geeks.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I don't know, man. We've seen smart people end up running the personnel side despite being numbers guys instead of sports guys. "Moneyball" in baseball and now in the NBA looking at advanced metrics for putting teams together. We've seen that also happening with coaching and how metrics determine matchups and play calling. Coaches being former players is one thing for a position coach, but coordinators are trending toward analytical geeks.

Who would you say is an example of this? Being a "football guy" doesn't mean they played in the NFL, or even at a high collegiate level, but you don't get to those positions (and never will) without being obsessed with the game of football and having an extensive football background. To add to this, I would say that most of the time, the best coaches were marginal players (relative to their peers of course), and that's not a new thing.

Yes, there is a heavier reliance on analytics in today's game than ever before, but that doesn't mean any old asshole fan who plays 5 hours of Madden a night has the chops to become a coordinator at any level of football.

 

[Buffnik]

Who would you say is an example of this? Being a "football guy" doesn't mean they played in the NFL, or even at a high collegiate level, but you don't get to those positions (and never will) without being obsessed with the game of football and having an extensive football background. To add to this, I would say that most of the time, the best coaches were marginal players (relative to their peers of course), and that's not a new thing.

Yes, there is a heavier reliance on analytics in today's game than ever before, but that doesn't mean any old asshole fan who plays 5 hours of Madden a night has the chops to become a coordinator at any level of football.

I guess the question is - why not? People do all sorts of other jobs that way. Other than a "respect of the locker room" thing, I don't think it's a big deal. Charlie Weis, for example, was a great NFL OC. He wasn't even a starter on his HS football team and didn't get involved with the athletic department in any way while at Notre Dame. He was just an obsessed fan who had the smarts and desire to become a coach.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I guess the question is - why not? People do all sorts of other jobs that way. Other than a "respect of the locker room" thing, I don't think it's a big deal. Charlie Weis, for example, was a great NFL OC. He wasn't even a starter on his HS football team and didn't get involved with the athletic department in any way while at Notre Dame. He was just an obsessed fan who had the smarts and desire to become a coach.

He started his career as a coach at 23 years old and for the first decade of his career, Weis was a HS assistant, GA/Volunteer and HS Head Coach. He put his time in learning the game from the most basic level for a decade before getting in with an NFL team, where he had to put in countless hours and 7 more years to become competent at the NFL level before he finally became an OC in 1997, 18 years after beginning his football career. At that point, he was absolutely a "football guy".

I'm not saying that it can't happen, but Weis is probably the best example and it took him almost 20 years of coaching to reach the Coordinator level in the NFL. I feel like I remember you saying that you played back in the day, so I'm surprised you have this opinion that I think is so far out there. The amount of game knowledge you have to have to coordinate a high school offense well, is so far beyond the average football fan's grasp of the game it's not even funny, let alone the advanced concepts in the collegiate and pro games.

 

[Buffnik]

He started his career as a coach at 23 years old and for the first decade of his career, Weis was a HS assistant, GA/Volunteer and HS Head Coach. He put his time in learning the game from the most basic level for a decade before getting in with an NFL team, where he had to put in countless hours and 7 more years to become competent at the NFL level before he finally became an OC in 1997, 18 years after beginning his football career. At that point, he was absolutely a "football guy".

I'm not saying that it can't happen, but Weis is probably the best example and it took him almost 20 years of coaching to reach the Coordinator level in the NFL. I feel like I remember you saying that you played back in the day, so I'm surprised you have this opinion that I think is so far out there. The amount of game knowledge you have to have to coordinate a high school offense well, is so far beyond the average football fan's grasp of the game it's not even funny, let alone the advanced concepts in the collegiate and pro games.

I think our disconnect comes from me overstating for effect with the Madden comment. I absolutely do think that someone would need to pay his dues. I just don't think that having personal experience blocking, tackling et al matters so much any more. It's becoming more and more analytical so that the same skill set that would serve someone on Wall Street or Vegas is what you want choosing your personnel, designing your schemes, developing your game plans and calling your plays.

I did play. And my experience of that was that the old quote about how there are no geniuses in sports is something that's going away because there's so much damn money in it now. There were always smart people and the smartest rose to the top, but these weren't the types of smarts that Microsoft and Apple (or Goldman and Merrill) were fighting over. That's what I think is changing because it's an incredibly lucrative career field. The future, I believe, is those who have those types of brains but are also able to implement it in a KISS type way that allows for athletes to make plays instead of having to think too much on the field. Not the old "pin your ears back" simplicity, but a level of genius that allows incredible complexity to be implemented easily within the scope of the actual play so that a rookie QB can thrive as well as a vet.

 

[lvbuff]

We are still not sure who won the internet today. Will keep you posted.
Now we take you back to the thread topic after a lengthy bird walk.

Montez should able to throw the ball at will against CSU. I would like to see 4 or 5 WRs and 2 or 3 RBs with multiple receptions.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

We are still not sure who won the internet today. Will keep you posted.
Now we take you back to the thread topic after a lengthy bird walk.

Montez should able to throw the ball at will against CSU. I would like to see 4 or 5 WRs and 2 or 3 RBs with multiple receptions.

Yeah, cause this contribution of yours to the thread topic was some serious fire!

 

[manhattanbuff]

This is how i see all of you... drinking the sizzurp-aid

 

[SerenityBuff]

I think our disconnect comes from me overstating for effect with the Madden comment. I absolutely do think that someone would need to pay his dues. I just don't think that having personal experience blocking, tackling et al matters so much any more. It's becoming more and more analytical so that the same skill set that would serve someone on Wall Street or Vegas is what you want choosing your personnel, designing your schemes, developing your game plans and calling your plays.

I did play. And my experience of that was that the old quote about how there are no geniuses in sports is something that's going away because there's so much damn money in it now. There were always smart people and the smartest rose to the top, but these weren't the types of smarts that Microsoft and Apple (or Goldman and Merrill) were fighting over. That's what I think is changing because it's an incredibly lucrative career field. The future, I believe, is those who have those types of brains but are also able to implement it in a KISS type way that allows for athletes to make plays instead of having to think too much on the field. Not the old "pin your ears back" simplicity, but a level of genius that allows incredible complexity to be implemented easily within the scope of the actual play so that a rookie QB can thrive as well as a vet.

This is true in baseball, as you mention, and becoming more so the case in football. Ivy League people like your Paul DePodestas and your Theo Epsteins. Although in baseball, it's limited to the front office as those guys haven't broken through to the coaching ranks yet. Those jobs are still given to the crusty old baseball types, for now.

 

[Buffnik]

This is true in baseball, as you mention, and becoming more so the case in football. Ivy League people like your Paul DePodestas and your Theo Epsteins. Although in baseball, it's limited to the front office as those guys haven't broken through to the coaching ranks yet. Those jobs are still given to the crusty old baseball types, for now.

Baseball's weird like that. They have 60 year old fat guys dressed up like the players for some reason. Should go back to the Connie Mack days with the manager attire.

 

[WarBuff]

Baseball's weird like that. They have 60 year old fat guys dressed up like the players for some reason. Should go back to the Connie Mack days with the manager attire.

Hard to kick dirt all over home plate looking like that though.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Hard to kick dirt all over home plate looking like that though.

Bobby Knight was able to throw chairs across the gym dressed essentially like that

 

[chitownbuff]

This is true in baseball, as you mention, and becoming more so the case in football. Ivy League people like your Paul DePodestas and your Theo Epsteins. Although in baseball, it's limited to the front office as those guys haven't broken through to the coaching ranks yet. Those jobs are still given to the crusty old baseball types, for now.

Paul D sucks.

 

[JOEinDenver]

That potential is what has me so excited about the coming season. A lot has to come together with unknowns with this team, but I see a path to a South title and/or Top 20 type season that doesn't require any craziness in order for it to happen. #1 on the list of things that has to come together is Montez looking like he has for stretches as a starter.

I agree it all comes down to how the team around him matures as well. I see better talent then has been on campus since the early 2000's.

If Patrick Mahomes is a 1st round draft pick, Montez definitely has the potential to be there as well. His physical tool set is on par with anyone in the country, as it relates to what NFL teams are looking for, so it all relies on the mental side of things.

He still has two years of college ball in front of him. I will say the coaching he will receive is at a much higher level than the first three years, and he is better prepared to receive it. I don't think he took it as seriously as he needed to the first half of his career. This year should be really fun, but next year this team has a chance to be top ten for sure.

 

[DeNiro]

Call me crazy, but I think it would help us to knock UA's starter out in the first quarter...this year.

I know you said this year, but it didn’t work out last time.

 

[MtnBuff]

I think our disconnect comes from me overstating for effect with the Madden comment. I absolutely do think that someone would need to pay his dues. I just don't think that having personal experience blocking, tackling et al matters so much any more. It's becoming more and more analytical so that the same skill set that would serve someone on Wall Street or Vegas is what you want choosing your personnel, designing your schemes, developing your game plans and calling your plays.

I did play. And my experience of that was that the old quote about how there are no geniuses in sports is something that's going away because there's so much damn money in it now. There were always smart people and the smartest rose to the top, but these weren't the types of smarts that Microsoft and Apple (or Goldman and Merrill) were fighting over. That's what I think is changing because it's an incredibly lucrative career field. The future, I believe, is those who have those types of brains but are also able to implement it in a KISS type way that allows for athletes to make plays instead of having to think too much on the field. Not the old "pin your ears back" simplicity, but a level of genius that allows incredible complexity to be implemented easily within the scope of the actual play so that a rookie QB can thrive as well as a vet.

There is a lot of truth to this. An NFL team no longer considers it normal for a rookie QB to sit for anywhere from 1/2 a season to 2 or 3 full years before being able to handle the mental load of functioning in an NFL offense.

If you don't like the Manning approach though you won't like the next element of this. What I think will be the next step is some well above average QBs, a small number of them, being able to absorb all the tendencies, all the keys and reads, all the subtle defensive shifts. These guys will be a repetition of Manning or maybe Brady/Brees like. They will go to the line with their team. They will watch the responses to the motions and shifts and dissect the defenses that are designed to defend the simple read offenses that most teams are running.

The coaches have always wanted to micromanage their offenses but the smart coaches recognize when the QB is better equipped to have some of that control and these coaches will end up with rings.

Meanwhile 80% of the NFL games will be so homogeneous that if your TV lost it's color and went black and white it would be easy to confuse them all with each other.

 

[CUAviator]

There is a lot of truth to this. An NFL team no longer considers it normal for a rookie QB to sit for anywhere from 1/2 a season to 2 or 3 full years before being able to handle the mental load of functioning in an NFL offense.

If you don't like the Manning approach though you won't like the next element of this. What I think will be the next step is some well above average QBs, a small number of them, being able to absorb all the tendencies, all the keys and reads, all the subtle defensive shifts. These guys will be a repetition of Manning or maybe Brady/Brees like. They will go to the line with their team. They will watch the responses to the motions and shifts and dissect the defenses that are designed to defend the simple read offenses that most teams are running.

The coaches have always wanted to micromanage their offenses but the smart coaches recognize when the QB is better equipped to have some of that control and these coaches will end up with rings.

Meanwhile 80% of the NFL games will be so homogeneous that if your TV lost it's color and went black and white it would be easy to confuse them all with each other.

Pro Football...

 

[cu3x]

I think our disconnect comes from me overstating for effect with the Madden comment. I absolutely do think that someone would need to pay his dues. I just don't think that having personal experience blocking, tackling et al matters so much any more. It's becoming more and more analytical so that the same skill set that would serve someone on Wall Street or Vegas is what you want choosing your personnel, designing your schemes, developing your game plans and calling your plays.

I did play. And my experience of that was that the old quote about how there are no geniuses in sports is something that's going away because there's so much damn money in it now. There were always smart people and the smartest rose to the top, but these weren't the types of smarts that Microsoft and Apple (or Goldman and Merrill) were fighting over. That's what I think is changing because it's an incredibly lucrative career field. The future, I believe, is those who have those types of brains but are also able to implement it in a KISS type way that allows for athletes to make plays instead of having to think too much on the field. Not the old "pin your ears back" simplicity, but a level of genius that allows incredible complexity to be implemented easily within the scope of the actual play so that a rookie QB can thrive as well as a vet.

add Ricardo and college BB. TV cameraman turned coach

 

[JOEinDenver]

 

[buff190]

https://theathletic.com/448825/2018/07/29/colorado-buffaloes-football-quarterback-steven-montez/

Not sure if posted already but this is a good article on Montez by Bruce Feldman.

Edit: might have to download the app.

 

[chitownbuff]

Will be interesting to see how he responds to all this hype. I hope he sees it as a benchmark he needs to achieve, as opposed to feeling that he’s already there.

 

[GoldenSkier]

Eliot has to make a huge jump that nothing in his past shows is within his skill set. Chev has to be there in his first turn at the wheel. That's a **** ton to ask, for sure.

It should help Eliot that he has Brown and Els with him for a second year along with Drake replacing Jeffcoat and Ambrose adding a good coach as a full addition of a coach position.

It should help Chev that he has Roper in the room and handling Montez.

I also think that we are discounting special teams too much. We seem to be in panic mode when it's a weakness of the team, but we don't seem to be giving it a nod as a group that should win us a couple close games with Els leading the coaching for a 2nd year and having everyone coming back at K, P, LS, KR & PR after them all having very good 2017 seasons.

I can't agree with Eliot not having anything in his past coaching experience. Everywhere he has gone, he has played a hand in coaching NFL draft picks. Bjorn Warner went from a European recruit to NFL pick in the matter of years (granted he didn't pan out). Everywhere he has gone, the DE and LB play has improved. There's reason to have some optimism.
The biggest thing for the offense this season imo will be blocking (per usual) and avoiding crucial drops. How many times were there momentum killing drops from Fields or Bobo. Our WRs need to have more focus this year. Getting Montez into a rhythm will be huge. We have no idea how good our defense could've been last year because they had multiple quick turnarounds and to me it seemed like there was little rest between possessions which resulted in an already thin defense being exhausted. This theory is supported by the horrible tackleing and terrible effort by the defensive line.

 

[Duff Man]

I can't agree with Eliot not having anything in his past coaching experience. Everywhere he has gone, he has played a hand in coaching NFL draft picks. Bjorn Warner went from a European recruit to NFL pick in the matter of years (granted he didn't pan out). Everywhere he has gone, the DE and LB play has improved. There's reason to have some optimism.
The biggest thing for the offense this season imo will be blocking (per usual) and avoiding crucial drops. How many times were there momentum killing drops from Fields or Bobo. Our WRs need to have more focus this year. Getting Montez into a rhythm will be huge. We have no idea how good our defense could've been last year because they had multiple quick turnarounds and to me it seemed like there was little rest between possessions which resulted in an already thin defense being exhausted. This theory is supported by the horrible tackleing and terrible effort by the defensive line.

Huge difference between being a position coach and coordinator. Eliot's track record as a coordinator is spotty.

 

[JOEinDenver]

What does any of that have to do with Montez?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

What does any of that have to do with Montez?

Nothing Joe. Just relax.

 

[Buffnik]

One thing I believe helps Montez a lot this year is that he's not surrounded by players on offense who disrespect him because he's not Sefo in terms of personality and leadership. Lot of seniors last year who grew up with Sefo as the leader of the offense (Irwin, Kough, Huckins, Frazier, Lindsay, Bobo, Fields, Ross). I suspect that they weren't having it from Montez with his moxie/cockiness. It's a big difference this year with most of these guys not having been so entrenched in Sefo culture. I've got a feeling that in 2018 Montez can be Montez and guys will actually rally around it instead of being turned off by it.

 

[MtnBuff]

One thing I believe helps Montez a lot this year is that he's not surrounded by players on offense who disrespect him because he's not Sefo in terms of personality and leadership. Lot of seniors last year who grew up with Sefo as the leader of the offense (Irwin, Kough, Huckins, Frazier, Lindsay, Bobo, Fields, Ross). I suspect that they weren't having it from Montez with his moxie/cockiness. It's a big difference this year with most of these guys not having been so entrenched in Sefo culture. I've got a feeling that in 2018 Montez can be Montez and guys will actually rally around it instead of being turned off by it.

This is a very good point, those guys were "Sefo's team" and no matter what he did Montez wasn't going to be Sefo.

Combine that with MM being distracted by the "scandal" and all the stuff around it and JL leaving and you had a big change in the leadership elements. Then you get Irwin getting himself suspended for dumb stuff and the team just never seemed to find themselves on the same page.

Phil tried to fill the void but was battling a lot of guys who weren't where they needed to be mentally and emotionally, seemed like he got frustrated by it at times.

 

[Duff Man]

Nothing Joe. Just relax.

There was nothing stopping Joe from posting some hot takes.