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*** Official 2015 Colorado @ Seattle Basketball Game Thread ***
- Thread starter absinthe
- Start date
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
Agree except that as far as mediocrity, that's what this year felt like. Finishing less than .500 overall and 10th in the PAC 12. I'm thinking we need to fight our way out of mediocrity, and immediately before it becomes a habit.
That was what I was trying to convey. This season was the first in a while that we had no excitement, no sense that things were going to get better. Early in the season we had already given up on winning the conference, not to much later we knew we weren't going to finish in the top 4, at tourney time some talked but who believed we would make the run and win, not many.
With multiple tourney appearances and NBA draft picks in recent years the vibe around the program was one of a program on the rise. Fans who normally weren't into basketball started following, quality recruits posted our offers on their social media, CU basketball had some significance.
Another year next season like this one and we will no longer be cool. Recruits won't pay attention and we will have to battle to keep the team from going through the motions. As we all know once you become one of those perennial afterthoughts it's very hard to get out of that rut.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
I am choosing based on Gordon's entire career at CU so far ... he's an offensive liability, pure and simple. Sure, he has the occasional game where he breaks out ... mainly on put backs. But he can't create any offense for himself. So to me, Crook and Gordon are a wash.
And I'll take a healthy Josh Scott over just about any big man in the country.
I'm banning all you guys. Show up after a loss and just bitch. Only kidding. Keep in mind you can jump start a hoops program with two quality well-timed recruits. All is not lost. I do think that some of the current cast is unsalvageable, though.
FrankRizzo
Active Member
I'm just glad it is over. Was not ready for that after football season. Healthy Josh Scott is the difference maker.
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
My favorite post of the BB season.
:lol:
Wow.
| School | Conf | FG% | 2P% | 3P% | FT% | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
| Colorado | Pac-12 | 0.55 | 0.577 | 0.286 | 0.667 | 6.9 | 1.2 | 0.4 | 1.4 | 1.2 | 2 | 6.6 |
| Seattle | WAC | 0.506 | 0.506 | - | 0.658 | 5.5 | 1.6 | 0.4 | 0.2 | 1.8 | 3.4 | 6.7 |
- Wesley shoots a higher % across the board
- Averaged over 1 more rebound/game
- Much better shot blocke
- Commits fewer fouls
- Turns the ball over less
- Averages 0.1 less points/game
- Wesley: 8
- Crook: 2
- Pac 12 > WAC
| School | Conf | PER | TS% | eFG% | FTr | PProd | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | USG% | OWS | DWS | WS | WS/40 | OBPM | DBPM | BPM |
| Colorado | Pac-12 | 18.3 | 0.592 | 0.563 | 0.556 | 249 | 11.6 | 18.7 | 15.2 | 9 | 0.9 | 6.1 | 17.3 | 13.3 | 1.8 | 1.2 | 3 | 0.134 | 2.3 | 4.7 | 7 |
| Seattle | WAC | 12.5 | 0.537 | 0.506 | 0.424 | 238 | 9.2 | 18.3 | 14 | 14.7 | 1 | 1.1 | 22.8 | 18.3 | 0.8 | 1.2 | 2 | 0.097 | -3.1 | 0.7 | -2.4 |
- Wesley has a higher TS%, eFG%
- Wesley gets to the line more
- Wesley produces more offensive points
- Wesley has a higher offensive and defensive and total rebounding rate
- Wesley has a much higher block%
- Wesley has a lower turnover%
- Wesley has a higher offensive and defensive win share
I am really not sure how you can defend your point here. Nothing supports it.
Ehhhh, he's not our problem.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
Never said he was our problem. I just lumped him in with the other offensively challenged people on this team. Someone said that Seattle U's guards were more talented than ours, but everywhere else we were more talented. Comparing Crook and Wes last night, and watching Wes for 2 years, I think it's a wash between those two. Tini's numbers give Wes the edge, yes, but it's not exactly overwhelming. And Crook's numbers are impacted by the fact that his team lives on the perimeter ... unlike the Buffs.
Those numbers aren't adjusted for competition level. Wesley goes against significantly better competition and puts up better statistics. To put it in perspective, the best team Seattle played this year was New Mexico State. There is a huge difference in the level of competition that the statistics are not measuring.
Awaiting my next infraction
wyobuff
Well-Known Member
There was a lot of talk of starting dom after hawaii and letting the chips fall where they may. I wish tad would have done it. he'd have a TON more minutes at a high level at this point, and there probably wouldnt be a lot of speculation on whether or not he'd be able to compete in the p12.
Unfortunately, that didnt happen. The problem this year was guard play, so we kept starting ski (deservedly) and XT/Jhop (did not deserve as many minutes) and that left dom with very few. Forwards are not the problem on this team - guards are. We will see what happens over the summer, but like a lot of people have said, the air is out of the blimp at this point, and we will see if it will come back.
One thing that does not get brought up frequently (and im not sure how much it should) is that tad has been able to identify talent (he was on chapman from utah - lost that because chapman is from utah, shane larkin that ended up going to miami, that kid from cal, and tyler dorsey). We were right there with all of those kids, and they just didnt want to wear the silver & gold - which is fine. He's been there on great talent, but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Aside from spencer & andre, there havent been any major hits. This year's incoming class worries me as well - the offer list is not as strong as all of the other kids we've gotten recently (jhop, fletch, dt, josh, dom). Who knows what will happen.
I think other (more successful CU Bball teams under tad) didnt have **** handed to them. They had to go out and earn it, and these guys all expect to knock off the ranked teams, and compete for conf titles and go to the big dance. Hopefully they learned this year that a half assed effort wont cut it.
Unfortunately, that didnt happen. The problem this year was guard play, so we kept starting ski (deservedly) and XT/Jhop (did not deserve as many minutes) and that left dom with very few. Forwards are not the problem on this team - guards are. We will see what happens over the summer, but like a lot of people have said, the air is out of the blimp at this point, and we will see if it will come back.
One thing that does not get brought up frequently (and im not sure how much it should) is that tad has been able to identify talent (he was on chapman from utah - lost that because chapman is from utah, shane larkin that ended up going to miami, that kid from cal, and tyler dorsey). We were right there with all of those kids, and they just didnt want to wear the silver & gold - which is fine. He's been there on great talent, but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Aside from spencer & andre, there havent been any major hits. This year's incoming class worries me as well - the offer list is not as strong as all of the other kids we've gotten recently (jhop, fletch, dt, josh, dom). Who knows what will happen.
I think other (more successful CU Bball teams under tad) didnt have **** handed to them. They had to go out and earn it, and these guys all expect to knock off the ranked teams, and compete for conf titles and go to the big dance. Hopefully they learned this year that a half assed effort wont cut it.
You're ignoring Dom being late to shootaround more than once. Tad wanted to start him, but isn't if you're late. Still, he averaged 19.9 minutes in conference play. He played 25 or more minutes in 5 of the games, most of which happened later in conference play. Unfortunately, Dom had 3 or more fouls in 10 of the 20 games we played in-conference play.
In Conference Play:
Points: 5.1
Assists: 1.2
Steals: 0.65
Rebounds: 1.6
Fouls: 2.5
Turnovers: 1.2
For a skinny Freshman who missed Fall camp and suffered a wrist injury half way through the year, I'll take those stats. Nothing about his play suggested that he can't compete at the Pac 12 level at a high level. When Dom was in the game, we scored and moved the ball. When he wasn't, we didn't. Dom has a very bright future.
In Conference Play:
Points: 5.1
Assists: 1.2
Steals: 0.65
Rebounds: 1.6
Fouls: 2.5
Turnovers: 1.2
For a skinny Freshman who missed Fall camp and suffered a wrist injury half way through the year, I'll take those stats. Nothing about his play suggested that he can't compete at the Pac 12 level at a high level. When Dom was in the game, we scored and moved the ball. When he wasn't, we didn't. Dom has a very bright future.
wyobuff
Well-Known Member
I agree, and freshmen are going to do dumb-ass freshmen things (god knows I did) but I have a feeling had he gotten more minutes in the non-con he wouldnt have picked up some of those dumb fouls later in conf play. My point is, there were minutes to go around at guard (without lowering ski's minutes) and dom should have gotten more of them.
Dom was still injured/hobbled most of OOC play
Yeah, our problem is the converse of that. You can kill a program when your star recruits get injured and/or leave early. How much different would things have been if Burks, Roberson and Dinwiddie had stayed through their senior years? We just don't have the depth to deal with our stars leaving. I thought we did this year and that proved to not be the case, partly due to injuries. But it also became pretty apparent that SD was the glue that held this group together.
Hyperbole?
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
You're probably right. But when our guards are playing well as a group (rarely in the last season and a half) and Josh doesn't have to routinely face collapsing defenses and double/triple teams, he's right up there with the best of them.
I'm not sure it is hyperbole. Josh is one of the ten best big men in America. Period.
It is when you don't have the depth to replace them and/or you get inundated with injuries. So, OK, we have to recruit better then. Whatever.
Josh isn't spectacular but it would be hard to name many schools where he wouldn't be a big minute starter at either center or PF.
He might be the must underrated big man in the country by nature of playing on a losing team and being so quietly efficient in what he does.
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
Seatlle you get a hard time for being a troll/debbie downer around here, and a post like this shows me why, you are letting emotions and small sample sizes cloud your judgment.
Wes is, when he tires to do something with the ball, a decent offensive player. Unfortunately for us he is one of our least used and least assertive offensive players. No regular starter shot the ball less than Wes, however only Josh was the only more efficient starter when he did shoot the ball. The Biggest problem with Wes is that he did not actually shoot the ball enough, not that he''s limited offensively.
In relation to Crook who you sited he is actually significantly more effective with the ball offensively, Wes carries a season long total offensive rating of 115 which you likely know is quite good. Crook on the other hand is far bellow average at 95, Wes is closer to Josh than he is to crook or to put it in CU terms from last year theh gap between Crook and Wes ofensively is the same as the gap between the X's.
Crook Had a beast of a game against us, his best all year offensively, but please dont confuse that with how he normally played.
Our issue is guard play, not Wes' offensive game.
Well, now that the dust has settled a little, I hope that next year we can point to these two CBI games as the reason we were able to "learn to play without Askia Booker"... LOL
We lost in the second round of the CBI. Pretty sure we can't talk trash to any other Pac schools until we win the conference.
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
Fortunately nobody was paying attention..,