Official Michigan State/Mel Tucker Hate Thread

[MiamiBuffs]

A lot of people here ignoring the top line number. MSU and Tugger have a contract under which he’s owed $70+ million. That’s not a theoretical number like a tort case-it’s the minimum MSU will have to pay if they lose in court. Very few parties would be willing to risk that much if they can get out for a quarter of what’s owed.

@MtnBuff

 

[MtnBuff]

@MtnBuff

I understand this but I think the combination of the MSU history and Tucker's lack of response to the charges puts the odds solidly in the universities favor. Part of their response to the Nasser situation was putting in mandatory training and strict policy. He can't claim he didn't know.

 

[BuffsNYC]

I understand this but I think the combination of the MSU history and Tucker's lack of response to the charges puts the odds solidly in the universities favor. Part of their response to the Nasser situation was putting in mandatory training and strict policy. He can't claim he didn't know.

Tugger has a viable defense by arguing that consensual sexual conduct does not violate the morality clause in his contract. I'm not saying that's true (either that the conduct was consensual or that it wouldn't be a breach even if it were), I'm saying that MSU will not want to have a jury decide that issue--just reading this thread should give you a decent understanding of why.

 

[DBT]

Tugger has a viable defense by arguing that consensual sexual conduct does not violate the morality clause in his contract. I'm not saying that's true (either that the conduct was consensual or that it wouldn't be a breach even if it were), I'm saying that MSU will not want to have a jury decide that issue--just reading this thread should give you a decent understanding of why.

Maybe the deleted texts, if recovered, will be the evidence that’ll swing this thing one way or the other.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Maybe the deleted texts, if recovered, will be the evidence that’ll swing this thing one way or the other.

Doubtful. Unless Tugger was really unhinged, it's seems unlikely that the texts contained any concrete statements by her that she wanted him to stop contacting her except in regards to her profession.

 

[DBT]

Doubtful. Unless Tugger was really unhinged, it's seems unlikely that the texts contained any concrete statements by her that she wanted him to stop contacting her except in regards to her profession.

You’re probably right and if so, then it boils down to your previous point.

 

[GawainBuff]

Two adults having consensual phone sex is not a big deal. Not consensual is an entirely different issue, but there’s no proof yet and it’s just a, “he said, she said” so far.

Trust me, I want to believe her so bad! I just need some evidence…accusations many months later and purposefully deleted text messages don’t do enough for me…I’m sorry!

You are not a “finder of fact.” No one has any interest in nor obligation to provide you with any “evidence” or “proof.”

Being a bystander, asserting your preconceived notions on how you think a victim of a rape would/should act when faced with yet more unexpected, improper conduct (in this case by a trusted male authority figure)…. This is not a good or helpful plan.

 

[NW Buff]

You are not a “finder of fact.” No one has any interest in nor obligation to provide you with any “evidence” or “proof.”

Being a bystander, asserting your preconceived notions on how you think a victim of a rape would/should act when faced with yet more unexpected, improper conduct (in this case by a trusted male authority figure)…. This is not a good or helpful plan.

Not to mention that “Finder of fact” on the internet is an oxymoron

 

[Creebuzz]

If MSU decides to litigate, Tucker can open up a can of worms in discovery. There may be some favorable jury pool populations out there for Tucker. Settlements are all about loss mitigation. Losses can be financial or reputational.

MSU can offer a nice GTFO financial settlement and still be a huge winner since they were on the hook for $80 million to a dude stinking up the joint. This is not difficult.

 

[sackman]

Jury selection would would be great. One side trying to weed out the UM fans while the other side weeds out the MSU fans. One thing I learned from my brief stay in Michigan is that just about everybody falls into one camp or the other.

 

[AeroBuff99]

Jury selection would would be great. One side trying to weed out the UM fans while the other side weeds out the MSU fans. One thing I learned from my brief stay in Michigan is that just about everybody falls into one camp or the other.

Wouldn't Tugger want UM fans on the jury thinking they would want to stick it to MSU and make them pay.

 

[sackman]

Wouldn't Tugger want UM fans on the jury thinking they would want to stick it to MSU and make them pay.

Yeah. And the opposing counsel would want MSU fans eager to stick it to Tucker and save the University from having to pay him. Everybody on that jury will have a bias one way or the other.

 

[hawg1]

Tugger has a viable defense by arguing that consensual sexual conduct does not violate the morality clause in his contract. I'm not saying that's true (either that the conduct was consensual or that it wouldn't be a breach even if it were), I'm saying that MSU will not want to have a jury decide that issue--just reading this thread should give you a decent understanding of why.

Tucker goes after the moral turpitude clause in his response today.

It seems to me that there are two clauses that could lead to his termination for cause.

Section III refers to “early termination” and states the school can end the contract, without liability, if Tucker “engages in any conduct which constitutes moral turpitude” or “would bring public disrespect, contempt or ridicule upon the university.”

 

[SeanMSan]

Tucker goes after the moral turpitude clause in his response today.

It seems to me that there are two clauses that could lead to his termination for cause.

Section III refers to “early termination” and states the school can end the contract, without liability, if Tucker “engages in any conduct which constitutes moral turpitude” or “would bring public disrespect, contempt or ridicule upon the university.”

Can Mel make turpitude into a hashtag slogan?

 

[Creebuzz]

Tucker goes after the moral turpitude clause in his response today.

It seems to me that there are two clauses that could lead to his termination for cause.

Section III refers to “early termination” and states the school can end the contract, without liability, if Tucker “engages in any conduct which constitutes moral turpitude” or “would bring public disrespect, contempt or ridicule upon the university.”

I agree on the two clauses. However, Moral Turpitude is vague, and the only reason public ridicule was brought upon the university is because someone affiliated with the university allegedly leaked it to a journalist, an act which the university is investigating from within.

I simply do not see how it’s in the interest of the university to litigate this versus settling it where Tucker takes a massive haircut on his remaining contract. Settling makes sense. Of course, this is Michigan State so maybe they decide to not hit the easy button.

 

[Go Buffs]

Can Mel make turpitude into a hashtag slogan?

#RelentlessTurpitude

 

[Fogo]

#IntegrityTurpitude

 

[sackman]

Tucker goes after the moral turpitude clause in his response today.

It seems to me that there are two clauses that could lead to his termination for cause.

Section III refers to “early termination” and states the school can end the contract, without liability, if Tucker “engages in any conduct which constitutes moral turpitude” or “would bring public disrespect, contempt or ridicule upon the university.”

That last part is really vague. It could be argued, for instance, that being ****ty at football would bring a great deal of ridicule upon the university.

 

[buffalo1]

I agree with you completely that Tucker should never coach again. He doesn't belong on a college campus. If he doesn't reach an accord with MSU to resign and the firing for cause stands he will not be eligible for employment at public colleges in a significant number of states. I can't imagine many of the others wanting to deal with the PR nightmare that hiring him under those conditions would imply.

I know that many if not most of the lawyers on this site are running ways through their minds that he prevails in a court of law but the hole he has dug for himself is deep with steep sides. If he loses, and I believe there is a solid probability of that happening then he and his lawyers get nothing. That court verdict also becomes available for Ms. Tracy and any other woman who he might have acted inappropriately with to use against him. He is facing some very serious consequences if he doesn't settle and MSU and their lawyers know it.

Much of corporate America would blacklist him for what has come out already. Nobody wants to be sitting in a courtroom facing a plaintiffs attorney asking them "So you knew what he was accused of and what he admitted to prior to hiring and you hired him anyways, why did you think that was a good idea?"

There are corporations out there and schools out there however that just don't care. If he comes to an agreement to resign, sits out a year or two, then spends a year or two as a consultant for an NFL team what to you think the response would be if the Baylor Head Coach told his AD "I need Mel Tucker as my Defensive Coordinator, he's a good coach, a great recruiter, and he could be the difference in getting us to the playoff?"

As a head coach he is done but considering the marginal success he had overall at MSU he may have been done as a HC anyways.

But who was the coach who had the AD employee girl on the back of his motorcycle when he wrecked. Some SEC school perhaps. Do I have the story half correct and is he coaching again?

 

[hawg1]

That last part is really vague. It could be argued, for instance, that being ****ty at football would bring a great deal of ridicule upon the university.

The early termination clauses are problematic.

 

[66BUFF]

But who was the coach who had the AD employee girl on the back of his motorcycle when he wrecked. Some SEC school perhaps. Do I have the story half correct and is he coaching again?

 

[CarolinaBuff]

But who was the coach who had the AD employee girl on the back of his motorcycle when he wrecked. Some SEC school perhaps. Do I have the story half correct and is he coaching again?

As listed above he was at Arkansas when the motorcycle incident happened. And he's the OC at A&M now

 

[MtnBuff]

But who was the coach who had the AD employee girl on the back of his motorcycle when he wrecked. Some SEC school perhaps. Do I have the story half correct and is he coaching again?

He's the OC at Texas A&M, a job that probably pays a lot more than many G5 head coaches are making.

Lot of differences here.

A lot of schools still wouldn't touch him but he gave himself a chance to get back into it.

He handled it much differently than Mel though. It didn't take him long after to admit what he did and ask forgiveness instead of trying to maintain his innocence (harder to do that with the photos out there,) This is a big part of why I think Mel would be much better off to negotiate and out, admit his role, and move on. What Mel did does not appear to rise to a level of criminal charges so if he begs forgiveness he will probably get it.

Petrino also chose to be an idiot at a school that hadn't recently been the focus of national attention and massive settlements in a sex scandal involving university employees.

The bigger difference is that Petrino is also a white good ol' boy who won a lot of football games. That gets him a lot of slack in the south.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

MSU has a big problem in all this in that they slow walked Brenda Tracys complaint. This after failing on two previous Title IX inquiries.

I would assume if MT were fired for cause/moral turpitude it would pretty quickly go trial. The man is owed money and in his mind he was in a consensual relationship. And he probably wants to try to salvage his reputation even though a trial might not do that. Anyway, that means all kinds of witnesses being called by both sides that say they saw X, Y, or Z.

One would assume that Brenda Tracy counter sues Tucker and MSU. And if she does you probably see the AD or Assoc AD, Chancellor, Provosts, Deans, Compliance, HR and on and on called to the stand to explain why it took a FOIA request to move this along. And "Mrs HR manager could you please tell the court who appeared to be slow walking this?"

Since the Department of Educations Office of Civil Rights has stepped into the picture and opened yet another investigation into MSU. So with that I am not sure how any of this proceeds. Why pay Turcker or Tracy If DOE-OCR eventually makes a lot of this public anyways. On the other hand a trial as I describe above might give DOE-OCR a road map of who to talk to.




In the end I think MT and Tracy get paid a lot to keep this out of court and quietly go away. Just my 2 cents.

 

[SeanMSan]

#RelentlessTurpitude

I can see the movie now…”from the directing crew that brought you 127 hours. Comes 37 Minutes!”

 

[MtnBuff]

I can see the movie now…”from the directing crew that brought you 127 hours. Cums 37 Minutes!”

Maybe fify.

 

[AeroBuff99]

I don't see Brenda Tracy suing Tugger. I can't see what her cause of action would be, nor what her damages would be just based on reports of what had happened.

 

[CUAviator]

As listed above he was at Arkansas when the motorcycle incident happened. And he's the OC at A&M now

Nobody complained about him

 

[Denver_sc]

MSU has a big problem in all this in that they slow walked Brenda Tracys complaint. This after failing on two previous Title IX inquiries.

I would assume if MT were fired for cause/moral turpitude it would pretty quickly go trial. The man is owed money and in his mind he was in a consensual relationship. And he probably wants to try to salvage his reputation even though a trial might not do that. Anyway, that means all kinds of witnesses being called by both sides that say they saw X, Y, or Z.

One would assume that Brenda Tracy counter sues Tucker and MSU. And if she does you probably see the AD or Assoc AD, Chancellor, Provosts, Deans, Compliance, HR and on and on called to the stand to explain why it took a FOIA request to move this along. And "Mrs HR manager could you please tell the court who appeared to be slow walking this?"

Since the Department of Educations Office of Civil Rights has stepped into the picture and opened yet another investigation into MSU. So with that I am not sure how any of this proceeds. Why pay Turcker or Tracy If DOE-OCR eventually makes a lot of this public anyways. On the other hand a trial as I describe above might give DOE-OCR a road map of who to talk to.




In the end I think MT and Tracy get paid a lot to keep this out of court and quietly go away. Just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure if this was your intention, because the rest of your post talks exclusively about Tucker/Tracey, but for anyone else who didn't click the link, it' appears to be a different investigation than Tucker/Tracey:

The federal Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights, or OCR, is investigating Michigan State University for mishandling a 2022 report of sexual harassment.

The accuser alleges that after making the report, MSU discriminated against them because they are disabled and attempted to retaliate against them for speaking out, according to a letter alerting the university to the OCR’s investigation.

Later in the article:

MSU’s head football coach is also currently under investigation for his alleged sexual harassment of a rape survivor and advocate who was consulting for his team.

I'm not naive enough to believe that MSU is the only school at which this happens, including CU. But holy **** what the **** is wrong with them to (a) handle SA/SH complaints this way and (b) not learn from past mistakes?

As the saying goes: Once (Nasser) is happenstance. Twice (Tracey/Tucker) is coincidence. Three times (this latest complaint) is enemy action.

Although you could easily argue that Nasser was way more than three times.

 

[absinthe]

Well - MSU has canned his ass, while on leave, with out disclosing much. Seems like lawsuit time.