You're right. Dunno why I thought he was a McDonald's All-American. Although, could use the same argument for Keith Appling of Michigan State, or a number of other players
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"One and Done" rule - with a quote from Tad
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
You're right. Dunno why I thought he was a McDonald's All-American. Although, could use the same argument for Keith Appling of Michigan State, or a number of other players
Appling is actually a case study that Izzo used to lecture NBA scouts. His case actually supports what I was saying and the importance of changing the culture so that guys are not pressured or downgraded by taking more years to develop.
“We put undue pressure on kids that they don’t feel good about themselves after they’re still in school,” Izzo said. “Because society has said, ‘Oh, the kid must not be any good. He’s a sophomore, junior, senior, and he’s still here.’ I think Keith Appling… He deserved to be down a little bit. He didn’t do the things he needed to do early on."
http://isportsweb.com/2014/01/13/ms...improvement-personifies-beauty-college-hoops/
I'm a fan of the baseball model- declare after HS or after your Jr year. I'd be ok with a 2 year college requirement for all players though. Although there aren't a ton of kids declaring early, it makes it easier for coaches to manage attrition and helps to restore the “student" in student-athlete. It also gives coaches back a little more control of their teams, as kids can't use the threat of turning pro as leverage.
Cutting through the rhetoric about "student athlete" and "integrity of the college game", there's the real reason that most coaches are vocal about not liking players leaving so early.
For the best programs, it means that you almost always have a situation where your best players are immature and your worst players (recruiting misses) are the guys you're stuck with and end up being your upperclassman leaders.
fwiw, This is one thing that allows Tad to close the gap with UCLA and Arizona. If it was the old days when a Kareem or Walton had to stay 4 years then those teams would be on a level we wouldn't have much chance against.
For the best programs, it means that you almost always have a situation where your best players are immature and your worst players (recruiting misses) are the guys you're stuck with and end up being your upperclassman leaders.
fwiw, This is one thing that allows Tad to close the gap with UCLA and Arizona. If it was the old days when a Kareem or Walton had to stay 4 years then those teams would be on a level we wouldn't have much chance against.
There's a huge difference between the NBA and MLB. Mtn touched on it. Each MLB team has a bunch of scouts. They have a draft that goes something like 50 rounds. They aren't just filling up a MLB squad. They're filling up an entire farm system. There really isn't much of a farm system for NBA. The D-League rarely sends players to the NBA who become big contributors. I don't think you can take the MLB system and implement it in the NBA. The numbers just don't work. I'd prefer to do away with the one-and-done and just let teams draft straight from high school. There are a few players who are clearly ready at that age, but not many. The ones that aren't will wash out fast. I'd even allow players who entered the NBA out of high school the opportunity to go play college ball if they felt like they went in a little early. The caveat being that they wouldn't be eligible for scholarships.
cubuffs85
Active Member
I don't know about much of a chance, UofA was nothing before Lute Olsen took over but I do think the current landscape makes it easier. I think one thing you've seen with the one-and-done/previously being allowed to go to the NBA, is that mid-majors are more likely to have deeper runs in the tourney than 20 years ago. While they lack the talent of the their competition, they make up for it (to some extent) with maturity and team chemistry.
NHL used to have a huge draft too. My housemate in college got drafted in like the 12th round and didn't even show up to camp. He knew he had no chance of making a real roster and was just done playing hockey.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Yeah there's definitely a difference, if the NBA wanted to they could have a deeper farm system. But why should they do that when college gives them that service for free. MLB Draft is 40 rounds now, it used to be even more than 50 rounds, Mike Piazza was drafted in the 62nd round.
I think if LBJ, KD, and other top players want to go forgo college they should be able to. If you are supposed to be a top draft pick, I don't see the issue. If you aren't so sure, go to college or play in Europe.
The NCAA will never go for that of allowing NBA players back into the collegiate ranks, atleast without penalty. Those foreign players who played pro-esque leagues end up sitting out all of OOC play in many cases.
One unfair difference I think between the two leagues is that MLB players are allowed to have "advisors"(agents). Scott Boras had been "advising" Bryce Harper and others for many years.
After 30 years of greatness, we're to the point where the parents of current recruits only remember Arizona as an elite program. I don't think the pre-Lute days that pre-date the Pac going to 10 teams is relevant any more. At this point, they are what they are and they're not going to regress to what they were back then. Too much support and tradition at this point.
cubuffs85
Active Member
So you're telling me that a Bzdelik/Boyle build-up couldn't have happened in the early 1980s? I think it would've been harder but it could've been done.
I do think we can get to that build-up or at least sustain success as the pesky #3 in the conference that wins our share of titles. I also think that talent leaving before 4 years helps us more than it hurts us.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10538276/mark-cuban-says-nba-d-league-better-option-ncaa
Cuban goes after the NCAA here. Says guys would be better off in the D-League than in college if they only want to stay for a year anyway. Says his preference would be to to raise the age limit to 21 and three years removed from HS graduation.
Cuban goes after the NCAA here. Says guys would be better off in the D-League than in college if they only want to stay for a year anyway. Says his preference would be to to raise the age limit to 21 and three years removed from HS graduation.
cubuffs85
Active Member
It can be done, just look at baseball -- the D-League would need to reformed however.
Cuban's a smart businessman. And he's losing money on the D-League. Seems weird that it sounds like he's blaming the 1-and-done rule on the NCAA. That comes from the NBA and the NBA Players Union.
More dishonest than weird.:wink2:
cubuffs85
Active Member
There's been a lot made on the whole minor league versus college debate since they are both second tier systems. The bottomline is this, no one graduated from the Colorado Sky Sox or the Maine Red Claws.
I'm usually a Cuban fan and sure having better players would raise revenues, but not nearly the impact I think he does.
The bottomline is most of the NBA/NFL like the colleges being a de facto farm system. It doesn't cost them any money, gives them a organized place to scout, and they have no liability if things go wrong at that level.
Larry Brown weighs in:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mens-coll...s-coach-says-no-way-d-league-better-prep-ncaa
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mens-coll...s-coach-says-no-way-d-league-better-prep-ncaa
Agreed. He's the best.
The only difference I have with the "baseball model" is I'd let kids go pro after 2 years instead of 3.
cubuffs85
Active Member
That would be a fair compromise if it had to come to that IMO. It would benefit the NBA as well because they could have more data on these guys in college.
I have a hard time reconciling my sports desires with my philosophical/political beliefs here. As a college sports fan, I'd just as soon the NBA folded up shop entirely and I'd much prefer that college players stick around for 4 years. OTOH, I think people have a right to apply for jobs for which they're qualified and I think employers have a right to hire the most qualified person -- if a college degree is a requirement for a job, so be it, but I don't see any moral justification for the rules being proposed. I know MLB has found a way to make it "legal", but I don't necessarily believe that legal makes it "right".
However, I do think that player attrition into the pro's has helped level the field for some schools. Teams like Wisconsin have been competitive over the last 15 years because they keep good players around for four years, allowing them to compete with the schools that recruit great players who stay only 1 or 2 years.
However, I do think that player attrition into the pro's has helped level the field for some schools. Teams like Wisconsin have been competitive over the last 15 years because they keep good players around for four years, allowing them to compete with the schools that recruit great players who stay only 1 or 2 years.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Along those lines, sports is a pretty unique business. You're an engineer. What if getting out of college, they told your top classmates that they would be getting a good salary but below market rate and on top of that they had to work for the worst companies? And they weren't allowed to leave that company for 5 years? Sounds fair right?
I think it's helped the mid-majors for deep tourney runs the current system. Sure, a Butler, VCU, George Mason will never be as talented as a Kentucky, but they've been playing together longer and can make up with it to some extent with chemistry and fundamentals that those younger teams might lack.
Yeah. As a college fan, I'd love 3. But it would be unfair if freshmen we look at this year like Ennis (who would not have gone into the draft out of high school) were forced to risk injury for 3 years in college. 2 would likely be good for him and for the college game, but 3 would almost seem punitive.
cubuffs85
Active Member
If the baseball model were instituted, he could've gone to the draft.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
I go for 2 if you go to college
If an 18 year old was the best violinist in the world...would the Boston Orchestra make him go to college for a year before they hired him. I understand the importance of college...but guys like LeBron and Kobe are proteges that should not be required to go somewhere they do not want to be.
If an 18 year old was the best violinist in the world...would the Boston Orchestra make him go to college for a year before they hired him. I understand the importance of college...but guys like LeBron and Kobe are proteges that should not be required to go somewhere they do not want to be.
Why not make a few bucks hooping in Europe for a year?
cubuffs85
Active Member
Like I said in my example to Hokie earlier, sports is a different industry to begin with. The best violinist in the world wouldn't have to play for the worst orchestra in the world at a below market salary like he would if he was an athlete.
cubuffs85
Active Member
I'm less sympathetic to basketball players for that reason. There's really no viable alternative in football, but in basketball there's other pro options.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
I understand your point...I just don't agree with making kids go to college for a year. The draft is the draft....if a kid doesn't care about going to Philadelphia or Milwaukee and just wants to take his talent to the NBA...he should be allowed to. If he miscalculates....he has to go D-League or Europe...who is the NBA to decide that college is the only option
cubuffs85
Active Member
The NBA is a private organization shouldn't they be allowed to operate in the way it wants to? Many companies/professions require college degrees after all. Instead of an age, the NBA could say two years of college experience.
Anyways, I'm for allowing the top pros to play in the NBA. I would do the baseball model. That's just my opinion. I understand why the NBA wants things a certain way.