Recruiting talent complaint.

[mattrob]

I think we had the budget to bring in a ringer for the Neinas spot.

And I think it would have made an impact.

But I also respect that this staff hasn't coached its first game yet and we haven't seen a single one of its recruits play college football. So I'm willing to give them the honeymoon period until I see failure.

In terms of the recruiting, if you remember my major critique of the class Embree was pulling together last year it was that there were so few reported offers from BCS programs and almost none from BCS programs that actually had a winning record. That's a problem. It seems to be a bit better now, but not the bump I was hoping for from a new staff.

Thanks Nick. I figured that's where you were, and really, we're pretty much coming from the same place here.

 

[SINKRATZ]

My point has always been: recruiting is an inexact science and its way too early to tell if any class will/has panned out. Look at Hawk's Scott/Katoa class: Top 25, but none of the blue chippers contributed squat or ended up at the next level. But then look at kids like Solder and Bahktiari. Solder 3* at TE; Bahktiari 2*, better known as a LAX player than OL; both developed into top notch players. More than half of last year's NFL 1st rounders were 3 star or less coming out of HS, includuing the top pick who was a 2*. Time alone will tell.

The 2008 class had some highly ranked kids that flamed out, and lower ranked kids like Solder and Bahktiari became studs, therefore we should be thankful we are only recruiting lightly recruited kids. Makes sense, got it.

 

[SINKRATZ]

My question is how many recruits did water bottle have committed this early when he was a coach? If I remember correctly water bottle was still chasing recruits well into every season. How many did DII have?

I give the staff all the props in the world for their efforts in recruiting. They have not played a game and they have 24+ guys with verbals after a season that highlighted CU as the laughing stock of college football. CU has been a joke of a program for 5+ years and these guys are finding players that on paper look like they have legit PAC talent.

I would love to be getting some *4 and *5 guys, but for crap sake we actually need to show some recruits that the entire team is not going to look like a bunch of retards playing their first season of an organized sport.

So there's actually a lot of room between 4* and 5* kids and being dead last in conference - it's not one or the other.

 

[DBT]

Got through the first three pages then quit. If anyone had an expectation that Mac would come in and immediately turn recruiting around they must be using medical marijuana. My expectation is that he will coach these guys up and show improvement. I also expect him to build relations in Texas and Colorado while making greater inroads in California. I believe Mac will turn this around and do it, possibly, faster than expected.

 

[o_robbie]

My question is how many recruits did water bottle have committed this early when he was a coach? If I remember correctly water bottle was still chasing recruits well into every season. How many did DII have?

I give the staff all the props in the world for their efforts in recruiting. They have not played a game and they have 24+ guys with verbals after a season that highlighted CU as the laughing stock of college football. CU has been a joke of a program for 5+ years and these guys are finding players that on paper look like they have legit PAC talent.

I would love to be getting some *4 and *5 guys, but for crap sake we actually need to show some recruits that the entire team is not going to look like a bunch of retards playing their first season of an organized sport.

I have to disagree with this quote. On paper most of these guys do not look like they have Pac 12 talent based on the ratings of the services. Also Hawkins and Embree were after much higher profile recruits that typically wait longer to commit. Some guys waited all the way up to national signing day. That's what happens when you recruit with the big boys. Right now we aren't even attempting to recruit against them. It looks to me that we are taking alot of guys that are going to fit into our system that are 3rd or 4th options for the UCLA's, CAL's, UW's. We aren't even trying against USC, Oregon, Texas etc accept maybe on a couple of guys who are there 3rd or 4th options...

In the end I don't think it is going to matter that much what stars these guy have as long as they have what coach is looking at for development. We need to establish a program where we are playing our developed JR and SR's versus other teams 4 star Freshman/Sophmores... I really think that is what we are doing with recruiting. We need to stop having attrition from our younger guys. I understand if a SR or RS JR wants to bolt because he is buried on the depth chart.

I think that is the plan to win right now. Then we can mix in some more 4 star kids. Until we start winning they are going to be few and far between.

 

[BlackNGold]

Coach Mac did not recruit very well until he showed progress on the field first. Barnett and Skippy got to recruit off of Coach Mac's success.

People always say this but MAC did recruit better than our record. The 1983 class after CU went 2-8-1 in Mac's first year had players like Eric McCarty, Kurt Koch, Mickey Pruitt, Jon Embree, David Tate, and Tommy Streeter - All of whom had multiple offers, Streeter was a top recruit out of Florida. 1984 after going 4-7 we had Don Deluzio, Mark Hatcher, Tom Stone, Anthony Weatherspoon, - All hot recruits nationally. 1986 class after going 7-5 was definitely a top 15 class (CU was not ranked) - Sal Aunese, JJ Flannigan, Joe Garten, Mark Vander Poel, Arthur Walker, Marc Walters, OC Oliver, Oakland Salavaa, plus more....JJ Flanigan would of been a 5 star recruit in today's world. We beat out USC for him and he was the top recruit in California. IMO, Mac recruited better than the Team's record almost every year.

 

[BuffUp]

Got through the first three pages then quit. If anyone had an expectation that Mac would come in and immediately turn recruiting around they must be using medical marijuana. My expectation is that he will coach these guys up and show improvement. I also expect him to build relations in Texas and Colorado while making greater inroads in California. I believe Mac will turn this around and do it, possibly, faster than expected.

I agree with you DBT. Everyone needs to slow down and remember just how bad we have been for the last few years. Kids want to play for winners and teams that have a winning history. These kids and barely their parents remember when CU was last relevant. I really think MAC is doing this thing right, and will succeed faster then most think - but not in his first 5 months on the job...

 

[aik]

Pro: Offering a lot of the same guys Oregon State is offering. I like their ability to compete in conference when they often seem to have no business hanging in there with their peers and I trust their staff's evaluations of prospects. They find guys who are coachable and play cohesively and seem more often than not to out-peform expectations.

Con: Have yet to beat Oregon State for a recruit we're both targeting this year, and they're offering a lot of linemen we have mutual interest in. Would be nice to get Holland, Allen, and/or Anderson after losing out on Toran.

 

[MtnBuff]

Pro: Offering a lot of the same guys Oregon State is offering. I like their ability to compete in conference when they often seem to have no business hanging in there with their peers and I trust their staff's evaluations of prospects. They find guys who are coachable and play cohesively and seem more often than not to out-peform expectations.

Con: Have yet to beat Oregon State for a recruit we're both targeting this year, and they're offering a lot of linemen we have mutual interest in. Would be nice to get Holland, Allen, and/or Anderson after losing out on Toran.

Long term I would hope we can elevate ourselves above Oregon State but short term they are not a bad program to copy. You are correct though in that we need to start winning some more recruiting battles against the schools we need to beat on the field to advance the program.

 

[nocoolnamejim]

One thing that I've noticed with Oregon State over the years is that they continually bring in some monster talent at the lineman positions on both sides of the ball.

Don't know what their secret is, but they consistently beat out bigger name schools for some studs at positions that are damn hard to recruit at.

Isaac Seumalo
Grant Bays
Sean Harlow
Dylan Wynn
Michael Philipp

Every year it seems like they get one lineman type guy that makes you scratch your head and ask, "Wow. How did they beat out (fill in the blank) school(s) for HIM?" Sometimes (like with Philipp or Seumalo) the guys are very highly ranked. Other times (like with Harlow for example) they're guys that aren't ranked that highly but have a ton of offers.

 

[aik]

Long term I would hope we can elevate ourselves above Oregon State but short term they are not a bad program to copy. You are correct though in that we need to start winning some more recruiting battles against the schools we need to beat on the field to advance the program.

I believe even with our recent history that we should be beating Utah and WSU here more often than not. It will be a test of the staff in this cycle to see if they can sell CU over Oregon State and Cal with the Bears having a first year staff and recruiting to a new system as well. To be in the conversation with the next tier, IMO the Arizona schools and Washington, we are 2-3 years away from seriously steering recruits away from them to us but it'll need to include tangible improvement in the box scores and doing more with less.

 

[nocoolnamejim]

I'd agree that Colorado should be beating out Washington State, but I'm honestly not surprised to see Utah beating you guys out for some recruits. I know that they had a rough first year in the Pac-12, but they've been a pretty consistent top-25 team for much of the last decade. (Which, when you remember that these are 17 year old kids, means that they've been a consistent national power on the field during much of the timeframe when Colorado has been a doormat.)

I don't know either school as well as you guys do, but it seems that off the field you'd have a lot of the same things going for you. Strong academics, same conference, skiing and other outdoor activities, etc.

I'd take the campus life and city of Boulder over Salt Lake City any day, but Utah also has an LDS/religious connection and there's a pretty strong LDS presence in this part of the country as well.

 

[o_robbie]

I'd agree that Colorado should be beating out Washington State, but I'm honestly not surprised to see Utah beating you guys out for some recruits. I know that they had a rough first year in the Pac-12, but they've been a pretty consistent top-25 team for much of the last decade. (Which, when you remember that these are 17 year old kids, means that they've been a consistent national power on the field during much of the timeframe when Colorado has been a doormat.)

I don't know either school as well as you guys do, but it seems that off the field you'd have a lot of the same things going for you. Strong academics, same conference, skiing and other outdoor activities, etc.

I'd take the campus life and city of Boulder over Salt Lake City any day, but Utah also has an LDS/religious connection and there's a pretty strong LDS presence in this part of the country as well.

I agree. Utah also seems to do a better job of keeping their best kids in the state while Colorado gets raided every year.

This year they locked down the #1,5,7 in the state and appear to be in on #2
In 2011 they landed 4 of the top 9.
I can't find 2012 for some reason.

 

[GoonieBuff]

I'd agree that Colorado should be beating out Washington State, but I'm honestly not surprised to see Utah beating you guys out for some recruits. I know that they had a rough first year in the Pac-12, but they've been a pretty consistent top-25 team for much of the last decade. (Which, when you remember that these are 17 year old kids, means that they've been a consistent national power on the field during much of the timeframe when Colorado has been a doormat.)

I don't know either school as well as you guys do, but it seems that off the field you'd have a lot of the same things going for you. Strong academics, same conference, skiing and other outdoor activities, etc.

I'd take the campus life and city of Boulder over Salt Lake City any day, but Utah also has an LDS/religious connection and there's a pretty strong LDS presence in this part of the country as well.

Maybe Utah has that going for it, but a couple of Buffs created the Tony award winning Book of Mormon, so there's no reason those kids wouldn't be flocking to Boulder.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Just a friendly comment. I know that most of the board believes strongly in the importance of recruiting class rankings being a predictive indicator of on-field performance and I agree that there is some correlation, but they aren't necessarily always the be-all, end-all of whether success can be obtained on the field. Other factors like coaching, whether the players play well together cohesively, fit the system they're being recruited into etc. also matter.

Taking an example from your own conference, Washington's class rankings for the last several years according to Scout:

2013: 13, Conference Ranking: 2nd
2012: 23, CR: 5th
2011: 22, CR: 4th
2010: 11, CR: 3rd
2009: 66, CR: 10th
2008: 14, CR: 3rd
2007: 29, CR: 4th
2006: 35, CR: 6th
2005: 55, CR: 10th
2004: 22, CR: 4th
2003: 18, CR, 2nd
2002: 23, CR: 3rd

Median class rank: 25th, Median Pac-12 ranking: 4th

And now win/loss records against FBS opponents during those years:

2012: 6-6
2011: 6-6
2010: 7-6
2009: 5-7
2008: 0-12
2007: 3-9
2006: 5-7
2005: 2-10
2004: 1-11
2003: 6-6

Combined FBS win-loss record: 41-80. Zero conference titles. Zero top-25 end of season rankings.

For all intents and purposes, this team has had the recruiting people in this thread are asking for. Their median recruiting ranking is 25th, which is in the upper-tier of the Pac-12 overall, and they have had pretty dismal results.

Nothing wrong with the desire to recruit better rated players - that's a goal for every team - and with the advantages Colorado has I think they'll get back to doing so sooner or later, but sometimes you just don't really know FOR CERTAIN how good or poor the talent a particular class has until a few years down the road. With a new coaching staff that seems to have won a few players that they were after, there's reason for optimism even if the class rankings aren't what you want them to eventually be immediately.

Good luck and best wishes.

How sad is this guy today? :smile2:

 

[MtnBuff]

How sad is this guy today? :smile2:

Still have to see what UW does for the entire season but that looked like a very good football team out there last night.

A couple of points in relation to UW. One is that like us they have had some significant attrition from some of those recruiting classes over the years. All the talent in the world doesn't help a bit if you never see it on the field.

Second is that bad talent can't make good coaching a winner but bad coaching can make good talent a loser. UW has had some coaching issues but anyone who wouldn't trade their talent for CU's talent right now is crazy.

 

[o_robbie]

How's Miles looking for UW? Is he still at QB?

 

[JtsRcktVctry]

Miles is still at QB...they love him up there. Came in as the backup when they were blowing out Boise State. Price is a senior, so Miles may start next year.