This is exactly the type of guy CU should be trying to get to stay. I know he has some character risks but we need athleticism right now to get this program turned around faster than the 10 year plan we are currently on.
This is exactly the type of guy CU should be trying to get to stay. I know he has some character risks but we need athleticism right now to get this program turned around faster than the 10 year plan we are currently on.
We tried character risks under Hawkins, where'd that get us? Should we recruit Holmes to?
Sent from a red light
Both. Taking big risks on recruits since 2006 is what has gotten us into this mess with the massive amount of attrition we've had.Did we recruit character risk guys under Hawkins or Academic issue guys. I don't really remember recruiting to many character risk guys accept Katoa. We had a few other guys who became character issues guys. I recall a talented WR. Other than that I can't think of to many over a 4 year span of recruiting.
Both. Taking big risks on recruits since 2006 is what has gotten us into this mess with the massive amount of attrition we've had.
The amount of attrition from the classes you listed speaks for itself.Again,
I really don't recall any big risks. For the sake of research I'm not looking at anyone under a 3 star.
2007- Simas a 4 star receiver would be considered a risk and Gates was an Academic Risk
2008- Katoa
2009- Nuckols
2010- P.Richardson....Our best player!
2011- Asiata? (Maybe)
2012- K.Jagne
2013- N/A
It was, but that was a big risk to takeI thought Harlos' only issue was with concussions?
It was, but that was a big risk to take
Yeah, I should have included injury in there for Harlos but otherwise the rest were either academic or character risks.Well, the clarification was good, then, because you painted all those guys with a character/academic brush.
The amount of attrition from the classes you listed speaks for itself.
2007 (28, 10.7% )
-PT Gates
-Markques Simas
-Josh Smith
2008 (21, 14.3%)
-Darrel Scott
-Lynn Katoa
-Bryce Givens
2009 (20, 10%)
-Andre Simmons
-Edward Nuckols
2010 (24, 4.2%)
-Paul Richardson
2011 (23, 17.4%)
-Paulay Asiata
-Will Harlos
-Rashad Hall
-Jermane Clark
2012 (28, 10.7%)
-Kisima Jagne
-Davien Payne
-Kory Rasmussen
That is a lot of risks taken with very, very little returns. And the ones I listed were just the ones that I remember off of the top of my head and those are the guys who were character/academics risks that washed out, not the ones who washed out because they couldn't crack it at this level.
Talent wins games in college now. You can't tell me we wouldn't be a better team if we would have taken a chance on Dwyer or Seastrunk after they left their schools. We need to be the home of 2nd and 3rd chances right now and hope coach can utilize those guys to make us competitive. The other option is the 10 year plan to get back to .500 football we are currently on.
You got to eliminate the real idiots that end up in jail or prison all the time, but you have to take a few chances here or there with guys that are somewhat risky
But taking character risks has worked so well in places like Morgantown, Manhattan (KS), and Tallahassee. Surely a progressive, open-minded place such as Boulder would be a great venue for young athletes from rough places to rehabilitate themselves through sports and education!Ha.
Hahaha.....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Clearly, someone who has never been to Boulder.
But taking character risks has worked so well in places like Morgantown, Manhattan (KS), and Tallahassee. Surely a progressive, open-minded place such as Boulder would be a great venue for young athletes from rough places to rehabilitate themselves through sports and education!
You do, I'm in no way advocating that we take no risks, but with a fragile team and a changing culture we need to be careful about what risks we take. We can't afford to have 10-15% of our class being risks that never contribute or even gain entrance to CU.
Sent from a red light
The amount of attrition from the classes you listed speaks for itself.
2007 (28, 10.7% )
-PT Gates - Academic risk (never qualified)
-Markques Simas - Character risk (DUI arrest and failure to appear in court) and a academic risk (came from a JUCO)
-Josh Smith
2008 (21, 14.3%)
-Darrel Scott - Character risk (work effort issue - showed up to fall camp fat and out of shape)
-Lynn Katoa - Character risk (don't tell me Hawkins didn't know he was a banger and would be more predispositioned to trouble than most)
-Bryce Givens
2009 (20, 10%)
-Andre Simmons - Academic risk (came from a JUCO- ruled inelgiable by the NCAA for the 2010 season and only carried the ball once in his career)
-Edward Nuckols - Academic risk (never qualified out of high school)
2010 (24, 4.2%)
-Paul Richardson - Character risk (kicked off of the UCLA team after stealing a purse - big time contributor now)
2011 (23, 17.4%)
-Paulay Asiata - Academic risk (if I recall correctly he had iffy grades coming out of high school to qualify and was out of school within a semester)
-Will Harlos - Concussion risk
-Rashad Hall - Academic risk (fast guy with a few other BCS offers who never qualified....now at NCSU)
-Jermane Clark - Academic risk
2012 (28, 10.7%)
-Kisima Jagne - Academic risk (barely qualified greyshirted and is now at ASU - should be at CU now though as a RS-Fr)
-Davien Payne - Academic risk (iffy grades out of high school and had plenty of issues at CU and he is now gone)
-Kory Rasmussen - Academic risk (pretty much the same as every other academic risk)
That is a lot of risks taken with very, very little returns. And the ones I listed were just the ones that I remember off of the top of my head and those are the guys who were character/academics risks that washed out, not the ones who washed out because they couldn't crack it at this level.
Hindsight is 20/20 on a few of those kids. We aren't aware of some of the red flags these kids show or their backgrounds but I still feel you absolutely take 4 or 5 talented risks over the 2 star or unranked guy. You do this every time and if you hit on a guy like Cam Newton you instantly turn your program back around. Taking under recruited guys who are either not fast enough or don't have the measurables isn't going to cut it in the Pac 12. I think you can get away with it in the Big 12 and Big 10 but not here in the Pac 12 where every game is a track meet.
This is where I disagree. I don't think we can afford to have 80 percent of our class be guys who aren't up to Pac 12 standards or are projected development guys who we hope could be good in 4 years. Unless people are happy with the 7 to 10 year plan to get us back to .500. I have stated in other threads the only way your conservative recruiting plan works is if alot of those guys develop and we are able to march out are RS JR and Sr vs other teams higher rated recruits. Even then we have to worry about the guys who actually developed bolting to the NFL early like Bahktiari and then we are still in a hole.
I don't wanna be a jerk here but, should the discussion really be taking place in this kids thread? Some of the things posted here are not all that flattering to the kid and its more of a general discussion anyway. Does not have to go to the island. Perhaps just its own thread in the recruiting forum?
Hindsight may be 20/20 on a guy like Givens (although for all the issues he had in Boulder you'd think something would have been seen), but for many you could see it coming. We have one person on that list above that has contributed in any significant manner, one.
The developmental guys (with minimum academic/character risks) would be a whole lot better (from the 2007 and 2008 classes) if they were still here rather than the talented, but riskier guys we signed who washed out early on.
Hindsight may be 20/20 on a guy like Givens (although for all the issues he had in Boulder you'd think something would have been seen), but for many you could see it coming. We have one person on that list above that has contributed in any significant manner, one.
The developmental guys (with minimum academic/character risks) would be a whole lot better (from the 2007 and 2008 classes) if they were still here rather than the talented, but riskier guys we signed who washed out early on.
Having gone through the "take any character risks available" with Auburn over the past several years, it seems to end badly in spectacular fashion.