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The Case for Dan Hawkins

Hawk is not Mac, but you have to be fair with their starts. very similar.

This is incorrect. I'm not sure how it is that people always seem to forget that Mac had CU in a bowl game and had won 7 games by his FOURTH year here. In four years, he brought this program from the very brink of extinction to respectability. Hawk has taken a team that was respectable and brought it to the brink of extinction (hyperbole).
 
Mac's players would run through fire for him and they HATED to LOSE. They had an ATTITUDE and NASTINESS and had PRIDE and wanted to not only win but beat your ass.

Hawk has made his teams have an attitude of ho-hum, we'll fix the little things and try and get them next week.
 
Mac's players would run through fire for him and they HATED to LOSE. They had an ATTITUDE and NASTINESS and had PRIDE and wanted to not only win but beat your ass.

Hawk has made his teams have an attitude of ho-hum, we'll fix the little things and try and get them next week.
We shall see in 8 1/2 days.
 
For me, Hawk gets a pass for the Montana State debacle (and 2006 in general) because the program was in such shambles after the 05 season...the 2007 season gave me some hope that we were on the right track with Hawk, especially with the OU win, but I started to lose faith in Hawk in 2008 with the Eastern Washington game...1 Big Sky loss is degrading enough, but to nearly have it happen again is a sign of troubled waters...The Toledo game in 2009 was the final straw for me in my confidence of Hawk's abilities - that was one of the worst games I have ever seen in my life...fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice or more, shame on you, Hawk...
 
The case for Hawkins.

20080513__BEER13_0017~p1.jpg
 
For me, Hawk gets a pass for the Montana State debacle (and 2006 in general) because the program was in such shambles after the 05 season...the 2007 season gave me some hope that we were on the right track with Hawk, especially with the OU win, but I started to lose faith in Hawk in 2008 with the Eastern Washington game...1 Big Sky loss is degrading enough, but to nearly have it happen again is a sign of troubled waters...The Toledo game in 2009 was the final straw for me in my confidence of Hawk's abilities - that was one of the worst games I have ever seen in my life...fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice or more, shame on you, Hawk...

:yeahthat:

I was one of the loudest Hawk supporters out there, but I just can't support what he's placed on the field. It's gotten to be too much. Even if Hawk can pull out eight wins in the regular season, I still wouldn't support an extension. He needs to show CU fans a hell of a lot more than what he has over the last four season here in Boulder.
 

laugh all you want brother, but it's the truth. Buff fans just dont like Hawk to be mentioned with Mac, but they are almost identical in their first four years.

Again, I don't think Hawk is even close to Mac, just being fair. And you might have been too young to remember, but after year 4, it was the same attitude towards Mac with the fans as it is with Hawk right now, only without the internet. Mac almost got fired.
 
Let's start from the premise that this thing was "burned to the ground" when he took over in 2006.

I think that is a justifiable statement when you consider the facts (even if the phrasing was insensitive and probably offensive):

We had finished 2005 on a 4 game losing streak that included the embarrassing 100-6 combined scores against Nebraska and Texas. We hadn't won against a ranked opponent since 2003. We had recruiting restrictions placed on the program from the 2003 scandal. We had terrible relations between the football program and the university, the football program and the local community. Most of our top prospects from the 2003 and 2004 recruiting classes had left, there wasn't much to speak of in our 2005 class, and the 2006 class was looking even worse.

From that starting point, can a case be made that Dan Hawkins has done a good job?

Maybe. Is it just possible that last season was a temporary disappointment, a bump in the road to sustained success... not a failure?

Starting at the time that Hawkins took over:
The first thing he did was salvage the 2006 recruiting class by bringing in unknown guys like Chap Brown, Jimmy Smith, Jalil Brown and Scotty McKnight, keeping Solder in the fold, and stealing Marquez Herrod from Oregon State at the 11th hour. Instead of going for a quick fix, he has done things the right way by cleaning up the mess and building a new foundation for the future. Restocking the talent, redshirting guys who could help now for the bigger payoff down the line, building a new culture that could be successful on the scoreboard and acceptable to the CU administration, academics, media and community... these things take time.

They especially take time when at CU it is impossible to restock talent with large JUCO classes. Further, we are located in a state that has only a handful of difference-makers to recruit each year. Making things even more difficult, our traditional out-of-state recruiting hotbeds (California and Texas) have had their flagship programs enjoying some of the greatest success in their histories.

And they especially take time when this must all be done within an athletic department that was virtually bankrupt at the time Hawkins was hired, had to make some difficult choices in order to get the budget balanced, hasn't been able to make the major facility upgrades for football that other Big 12 programs have been making, and hasn't been able to pay assistant coaches at the same level as most other BCS programs (or offer the security of long-term contracts).

Because of all this, the record should almost be ignored from 2006-2009. It's practically irrelevant. Only now, after 4 years of building the foundation, should we start judging the success of what he's done based on whether the team is winning a lot of games.

And we should be appreciative of just how hard the task has been to get us to this point.

Now we have a roster stocked with Dan Hawkins' guys. There is depth, talent and class-by-class balance in every position group. We have a new culture that includes new team GPA standards, annual APR scores that have been in the passing range every year, and no NCAA sanctions.

On the AD side, things like: the Pearl Street Stampede, the weekly radio show in Boulder, the Stampede of the state, the upcoming California Stampede, the balanced budget, the emphasis on improving academic support for athletes (and getting some large donations to make that happen), the budget-possible facility upgrades such as stadium lights, new scoreboards, new locker room, general enhancements to Dal Ward, the practice bubble, etc., investments in other sports so that football doesn't have to pay so much of everyone's budget... and, especially, the Pac-12 announcement.... these things have all set up CU football to be able to flourish into the future.

So can we go back to what Mac said last year when asked about Dan Hawkins' job performance? He said, paraphrasing: "to build a tall building you have to dig a deep foundation." Isn't that exactly what Dan Hawkins has been doing? Isn't that also what Mike Bohn's been doing?

Maybe, just maybe, we are doing things the right way and just need to be a little more patient. The new era of CU football starts on September 4th.

:gobuffs:

Our program was pretty well dead with the last 4 games in 2005. We have not recovered at this point. I was at Hawk's first spring game. The best player by far was Mason Crosby. I'm not sure there was another player on that team (I'm sure with a few exceptions) that could have cracked the 2-deep from 88-98. They were slow, weak and demoralized. I think the above analysis is well-reasoned and could be accurate. The proof is in the performance this year. Hawk has experience, depth and talent. If he gets it rolling this year, a strong case can be made for continuity. If we go 1-3 in the out-of-conference schedule or even 2-2, it is going to be difficult to sustain this argument. I actually believe this is the best talent that Hawk has had to work with and I believe there is a great possibility of success here this year. Hawk is not an incompetent. He has a plan. Whether he is able to successfully execute the plan remains to be seen. I am pulling for him.
 
There was a lot of :lol::lol: on ESPN radio last night about Hawkns. There may have even been some :rofl:. About the extension talk. So bad I turned it off.
 
Our program was pretty well dead with the last 4 games in 2005. We have not recovered at this point. I was at Hawk's first spring game. The best player by far was Mason Crosby. I'm not sure there was another player on that team (I'm sure with a few exceptions) that could have cracked the 2-deep from 88-98. They were slow, weak and demoralized. I think the above analysis is well-reasoned and could be accurate. The proof is in the performance this year. Hawk has experience, depth and talent. If he gets it rolling this year, a strong case can be made for continuity. If we go 1-3 in the out-of-conference schedule or even 2-2, it is going to be difficult to sustain this argument. I actually believe this is the best talent that Hawk has had to work with and I believe there is a great possibility of success here this year. Hawk is not an incompetent. He has a plan. Whether he is able to successfully execute the plan remains to be seen. I am pulling for him.

Jordan dizon does not agree with you.
 
Dizon would be a limited exception although I am not sure he would have had the opportunity. We have always been pretty deep at LB with Cabral.
 
We shall see in 8 1/2 days.

In my mind that is the problem. After 4 years we should be waiting to see what the attitude of a team is, we shouldn't be waiting to see if our team will be cool with loosing this year. We shouldn't be waiting to see if our staff can out-emotion a plate of oysters.

I can accept a debate about it taking time to build a talent pool on the team but the spirit of a team should be set quickly. And in this case it was. He told us when he got here he wanted to "stay out of the valleys and off the mountain tops"...So he gave all the guys he recruited sedatives and they've played like zombies since. Yeah, we'll see in 8 days if they have been allowed to get fired up yet...but we shouldn't have to.
 
When I hear "stay out of the valleys and off the mountain tops", the first team that comes to mind is the New England Patriots.
 
:yeahthat:

I was one of the loudest Hawk supporters out there, but I just can't support what he's placed on the field. It's gotten to be too much. Even if Hawk can pull out eight wins in the regular season, I still wouldn't support an extension. He needs to show CU fans a hell of a lot more than what he has over the last four season here in Boulder.

Agreed, because things are set up well for this team this year with the o-line, DB's, Kasa and Major coming back, the newcomers at WR, and the schedule. 6 wins would be a disappointment, 7 is par for this year, and I optimistically picked us to win 8, but my reasons have nothing to do whatsoever with Hawkins' coaching. I'm going with the theory of even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes, and this year I think we happen to be sitting under an acorn tree.
 
laugh all you want brother, but it's the truth. Buff fans just dont like Hawk to be mentioned with Mac, but they are almost identical in their first four years.

Again, I don't think Hawk is even close to Mac, just being fair. And you might have been too young to remember, but after year 4, it was the same attitude towards Mac with the fans as it is with Hawk right now, only without the internet. Mac almost got fired.

:lol:
 
Our program was pretty well dead with the last 4 games in 2005. We have not recovered at this point. I was at Hawk's first spring game. The best player by far was Mason Crosby. I'm not sure there was another player on that team (I'm sure with a few exceptions) that could have cracked the 2-deep from 88-98. They were slow, weak and demoralized. I think the above analysis is well-reasoned and could be accurate. The proof is in the performance this year. Hawk has experience, depth and talent. If he gets it rolling this year, a strong case can be made for continuity. If we go 1-3 in the out-of-conference schedule or even 2-2, it is going to be difficult to sustain this argument. I actually believe this is the best talent that Hawk has had to work with and I believe there is a great possibility of success here this year. Hawk is not an incompetent. He has a plan. Whether he is able to successfully execute the plan remains to be seen. I am pulling for him.

This.
 
All of the points that Buffnik made are valid. It does seem he and Bohn have built a solid foundation with surprisingly decent recruiting, healthy AD finances, increased alumni participation (events and such) and future direction of the program (PAC).

However, where this good argument probably stops is coaching and motivation from DH. He has been utterly incompetent on game days getting out coached and schemed by CSU,Toledo, Montana State, and Eastern Washington. Not to mention his teams haven't even belonged on the same field as Missouri. I know Missouri has been the best they have ever been, but it is still freaking Mizzery!

He better show us 8 wins minimum this year. Then no extension. I want to see another 8 wins the following year, then we can talk about extending this joker.

I remain hopeful for this season despite my best judgment and distaste for Hawk. I put that blame solely on myself. Go Buffs!
 
laugh all you want brother, but it's the truth. Buff fans just dont like Hawk to be mentioned with Mac, but they are almost identical in their first four years.

Again, I don't think Hawk is even close to Mac, just being fair. And you might have been too young to remember, but after year 4, it was the same attitude towards Mac with the fans as it is with Hawk right now, only without the internet. Mac almost got fired.

Okay old man. How old were you then? About five? :lol:
 
Um, one week will not change that...

Now, wait a second. You said "Hawk has made his teams have an attitude of ho-hum, we'll fix the little things and try and get them next week." I said we shall see next Saturday. What I meant was we shall see what kind of attitude they come out with vs. CSU. Will it be "ho-hum" as you assert, or will they be fired up.
 
I stand in awe of Mac. When the guy speaks, I am enraptured with every word. Hawk? Not so much.
 
Case against Hawk:
It seems like the only time we win is when the players overcome their coaching. When we lose, sometimes in very close games to very good teams, its things like penalties and special teams that are CU's undoing. Take Texas 2009 - we are leading 14-3 in Austin, and before you know it we give up 2 special teams TDs and an INT TD, add to that 20 penalties in the game and we lose going away. Special teams are all coaching; penalties are all coaching, and we suck at both, and have for four years (save Crosby's heroics).
 
Case against Hawk:
It seems like the only time we win is when the players overcome their coaching. When we lose, sometimes in very close games to very good teams, its things like penalties and special teams that are CU's undoing. Take Texas 2009 - we are leading 14-3 in Austin, and before you know it we give up 2 special teams TDs and an INT TD, add to that 20 penalties in the game and we lose going away. Special teams are all coaching; penalties are all coaching, and we suck at both, and have for four years (save Crosby's heroics).

If I was going to write "The Case Against Dan Hawkins" thread, the opening post would be very short:

16-33

That one's easy.
 
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