How'd that work out for Tedford?
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Tosh Lupoi - DC Alabama
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Should we include a clause in his contract that he has to sit out a year if he transfers to USC next year?
Kirby Smart, Jeremy Pruitt... Come on man. Saban is the ultimate CEO in college football. He’s highly involved in everything, but his coordinators do work.
Kirby was there since the beginning though.
Pruitt won one more game than Butch Jones' last year, but still missed a bowl. He's closer to Tosh than Kirby.
Patebuff expressed my thoughts well.
He had one of the best WRs in the country and future pro bowler on his roster?? Is this a trick question??
What about evaluating someone that recruited to that football factory in Berkeley?
If someone can get top talent there, they must be a good recruiter, right?
What about recruiting to a 0-12 team?
You'd have to be good to recruit well there, right?
I said the staff assembly is my concern as well, but that concern is there with any coordinator being considered. Day? Lake? Aranda has been around long enough for that to be less of a concern. All the G5 options come with that concern for me. The only possibility that doesn’t is a guy like Holgerson.
That’s why it is so important that the guy also exhibits solid CEO talent. Recruiting is 1, but creating a cohesive staff and identity for the program is 1A.
Agreed on Day and mostly agree on Lake. I feel better about Lake since he's running the show without someone like Saban looking on, but agree it's a similar risk.
I'm still holding out hope for the pipe-dream candidates like Aranda, but as we fall back to Earth than Tosh will look better, I'm sure.
It was a stupid reply on my part, but don't think we can expect a recruiter-type to fix our issues solely by recruiting.
Yep. Like any leader making a hire, Rick George will have to determine whether he (any candidate) has the necessary traits.
Holgerson is the only candidate mentioned who probably satisfies everything people are looking for as he’s been at the helm of a successful program. Everyone else has question marks and people who aren’t as high on them.
Like an idiot who consistently plays the lottery because he can only think about winning it, I see the potential home run CU could be getting with Tosh, and that excites me. If Rick George were to agree with me on that thought...
Fwiw, Lake is Co-DC in his first year of playcalling as well. Petersen thought so highly of him that he made Lake the highest paid assistant in UW history and gave him playcalling over their previous DC (drawing a blank on his name). I see a lot of parallels to Tosh at Alabama.
Saban has the budget and capacity to hire ANY DC he could hire and he chose to promote Tosh, first as co-DC and then just DC. Would he do that just to keep a guy that is basically just your recruiting ace? I doubt it. He has to believe this guy has done the hard work to wear the title.
GoldenSkier
Well-Known Member
Pleaaaaseeee Football Gods give us this man
I have studied CFB hiring for years, and there's no specific model that seems to work more than others.
Each model has different risks and I've seen no data to suggest one model is better than the next. By models I mean:
Remarkable individuals from any of these groups could work, and history shows that. It's hard for fans to get a good read on how remarkable some of these guys really are.
I'd prefer to avoid a group 3 guy above, not because "we tried that", but because we are coming off of that. Need a change up. Avoid group 1, just too risky. After that, we have to make sure you find a guy who can be the CEO and create excitement (recruit). He can't be a bad CEO. We must trust RG on that one.
Each model has different risks and I've seen no data to suggest one model is better than the next. By models I mean:
- Young riser, without Coordinator or HC experience (usually a recruiter type, think Embree I guess)
- Young riser with slim coordinator experience, but in a TOP program (Lupoi, Lake...)
- G5 head coach who has proven successful
- P5 proven coordinator
- P5 head coach needing a change.
Remarkable individuals from any of these groups could work, and history shows that. It's hard for fans to get a good read on how remarkable some of these guys really are.
I'd prefer to avoid a group 3 guy above, not because "we tried that", but because we are coming off of that. Need a change up. Avoid group 1, just too risky. After that, we have to make sure you find a guy who can be the CEO and create excitement (recruit). He can't be a bad CEO. We must trust RG on that one.
There were a lot of questions about Tosh's recruiting violating NCAA rules last time he was in the Pac12.
As nik pointed out, very little concrete ever came of that.
You also have to consider the "sour grapes" factor: when "better" football schools lose a recruiting battle to "lesser" football schools, there are always allegations of cheating. See NU this season for exhibit "A."
1. He got "caught" doing something minor that a lot of us might actually do if we knew a struggling kid who needed some money for test prep and tutors.
2. That was a long time ago - he was younger and probably learned his lesson.
3. Even if that lesson was "don't get caught," as long as he learned it, I don't care, because
4. I want a coach that pushes the threshold on what is allowable under the rules.
Seriously, I don't want someone going over the top "the U" style, and definitely not someone selling out the safety of women and children Osborne, Briles or Paterno style, but do I give a **** if 20 years from now 30 for 30 does an episode about how our national championships in the 2020s were built on a myriad of minor technical recruiting "violations?"
**** no!
Push the damn rules as far as you can and still get away with it. As long as the only thing you hurt are the feelings and "sensibilities" of goody-two-shoe "fans" and the pride of the other football teams whose souls you crush, I really don't give a **** what "rules" you stretch.
If you're not occasionally stepping a little too far over the line, you're not pushing the line hard enough.
As nik pointed out, very little concrete ever came of that.
You also have to consider the "sour grapes" factor: when "better" football schools lose a recruiting battle to "lesser" football schools, there are always allegations of cheating. See NU this season for exhibit "A."
1. He got "caught" doing something minor that a lot of us might actually do if we knew a struggling kid who needed some money for test prep and tutors.
2. That was a long time ago - he was younger and probably learned his lesson.
3. Even if that lesson was "don't get caught," as long as he learned it, I don't care, because
4. I want a coach that pushes the threshold on what is allowable under the rules.
Seriously, I don't want someone going over the top "the U" style, and definitely not someone selling out the safety of women and children Osborne, Briles or Paterno style, but do I give a **** if 20 years from now 30 for 30 does an episode about how our national championships in the 2020s were built on a myriad of minor technical recruiting "violations?"
**** no!
Push the damn rules as far as you can and still get away with it. As long as the only thing you hurt are the feelings and "sensibilities" of goody-two-shoe "fans" and the pride of the other football teams whose souls you crush, I really don't give a **** what "rules" you stretch.
If you're not occasionally stepping a little too far over the line, you're not pushing the line hard enough.
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That is logical, but he has made some interesting hires in the past. Either he has built a culture that he can take risks other programs can't or he rarely gets it wrong.
Zapata
Well-Known Member
That should be the least of your worries. Times have changed, the NCAA has completely lost its will/mojo to deal-out meaningful sanctions. The days of losing scholarships over walk-ons taking jelly puddling snack packs off the training table without paying are over. Nowadays, the scummiest of the scum schools are literally prancing away, scot-free, after murder/rape cover-ups.
^^So much this that I need a sammich and a nap after reading it.
GoldenSkier
Well-Known Member
Hot take but I'm down with it
Big boy pants definitely on with that post.
That’s a 5 star post right there. And you know Lupoi would have recruited the **** out of that post.
Pete Kwiatkowski is the guy you’re thinking of at Washington. He gave up play calling, but is still on the staff as a co-coordinator. Lake is my tops, but you’re right, he’s got a built-in security blanket just like Tosh.
Care to share why you think that?
He has been mentored by Saban for 4 years and Saban has steadily given him more responsibility. He only has 1 year of experience as a DC but again he it seems Saban dedicated a lot of time to get him ready for it too. And the results were good. And his recruiting chops are indisputable. I didn't realise he got Tua, that story is impressive. Just read this post. It does make you realise there is a lot he is still learning and he is young and inexperienced for a HC role but he is a big time high potential HC who has seen first hand how the best in the business does it, and would immediately solve the biggest challenge we all recognise at CU, we need someone who prioritizes and succeeds at recruiting with the big boys.
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2018/08/why_tosh_lupoi_is_unlike_previ.html
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2018/08/why_tosh_lupoi_is_unlike_previ.html
Everything I've seen says he is DC as title only. Saban keeps him because he is an amazing recruiter no doubt. Just not a head coach yet. Seems like a huge leap for him.
You may be right, but nothing about Saban makes me think he’d give somebody a coordinator title just to keep them on board.