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skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
I guess you don't consider Louisville and Arizona blue bloods? I think they're pretty close... ...
Louisville is pretty close, depending on how you define it - they've got 3 national titles, which matches Kansas' total. They are also pretty close, geographically speaking, to Kentucky, so they are definitely "close to a blue blood."

But Arizona has the same number of titles as such perennial basketball greats as Wyoming, UTEP and CCNY. Even in the Pac12, Oregon, Utah, Stanford and Cal have all won the same number of titles as Arizona.

I think you're making a similar mistake a lot of people do with Arizona, and mistaking blue hair for blue blood.
 

Goose

Hoops Moderator
Club Member
Junta Member
Louisville is pretty close, depending on how you define it - they've got 3 national titles, which matches Kansas' total. They are also pretty close, geographically speaking, to Kentucky, so they are definitely "close to a blue blood."

But Arizona has the same number of titles as such perennial basketball greats as Wyoming, UTEP and CCNY. Even in the Pac12, Oregon, Utah, Stanford and Cal have all won the same number of titles as Arizona.

I think you're making a similar mistake a lot of people do with Arizona, and mistaking blue hair for blue blood.
Since 1985 they've missed the NCAA tournament twice.

15 regular season Pac-10/12 titles.

6 Pac-10/12 tourney championships (most in conference).

They're a blue blood.
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
Since 1985 they've missed the NCAA tournament twice.

15 regular season Pac-10/12 titles.

6 Pac-10/12 tourney championships (most in conference).

They're a blue blood.
nouveau riche /= blue blood

I'm not saying they're not good. Even very good. I'm just saying that to be a be a "blue blood" you have to have won the big one more often, and more importantly: you have to be a big enough name that the NCAA will not throw you under the bus.

Unlike the true blue bloods, Arizona sits at that really terrible spot (for them) where they are good enough to be considered a "top program" by enough people that the NCAA can come down like a hammer on them without actually seriously impacting tournament ratings or "legitimacy."

They're a good enough program that the NCAA can make an example out of them. Hell, even their own fans are pointing out that "the realsity [sic] is we are not duke, U.K., UNC, ucla."
 
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skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
Thank you for posting that link so very much. I haven't enjoyed reading something that much in a long....long time. Edit.....now if only the same thing could happen to ****braska, Michigan, Alabama and USC in football....
This, so much.

That thread is gold.

What a total fail - can't even get to the FF with 7 straight illegal top-5 classes. smh
Hey guys at least we have a great football program to lean on! Oh wait ****.
Some of you guys are dreaming, which is almost as bad as some of you rationalizing and making excuses.

Miller is gone and should be. This is not the NCAA making allegations. It's a FBI corruption case with people having been arrested. It's an embarrassment for our university and it's alumni. Just shameful.

I'll wait a bit, but it looks like I'll be removing my proud alumni stickers.

Why can't we have nice things?p
Good lord we are absolutely ****ed.
Arizona finally made a final 4
 

SuperD

Club Member
Club Member
Louisville's been notified it's officially under FBI investigation.
This has the potential to get a lot, lot bigger. How would the NCAA treat this if like 2/3rds of the top 20 - 30 b-ball programs get implicated?

Now we know the going rate for a 5* b-ball player is 100k though thanks to the Louisville allegations.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Now the question is how does the spineless NCAA manage to wiggle themselves out of taking any real action on something that is this blatant and obvious. We all know that they are experts in delay, deflect, and deny when it comes to the programs that bring in the money but with the FBI and DOJ involved it will be much harder for them to shove this one under the rug.
 

SewallBeach

Club Member
Club Member
This, so much.

That thread is gold.
A few personal favorites:

Makes me wonder who tipped the FBI off? Calipari?
Too Soon Take:

Feel really bad for Book. He make a mistake, yes, broke some laws, but the consequences will be far more dire then the action. Not like he got someone hurt, or he was even malicious against a person. Thought he'd make a quick buck in a return favor, but that the kid would probably be in fine shape steering to that individual. Just lack of judgment. However, he has burned the bridge of his best friend and mentor Miller, probably won't coach for a long time, face jail and/or fines, huge lawyer fees, reputation hits, etc., all for the quick buck. Pray for Book.
The good news, [Emanuel Richardson] is from the hood where you are taught from a very early age "no snitching."
Feel really bad for Miller if he was betrayed badly by Book. Don't throw him into the mess until facts revealed. Right now, he is a victim.
I HIGHLY doubt Miller was involved and had knowledge of this, and I hope that is the case. Book seems like a lone wolf who was always out to side hustle to fill his pockets.
 

YngC

Club Member
Club Member
I asked an industry source about this today and he laughed, responded: "Don't throw stones when you live in Tyler Dorsey's house." Those intimately familiar with this recruitment should get some entertainment out of that.
 

Fight CU

Club Member
Club Member
How the money flowed:

coach requests funds ----> apparel company/agent/financial advisor sends $$$ to shell company ----> shell company makes purchase/deposit into an account of a family member or the recruit ----> player commits to program and gets directed to the apparel company/agent/financial advisor etc etc. ----> coaches get the "bribes" for doing this successfully and they get the commitment

upload_2017-9-26_14-0-56.png
 

cu2x

Club Member
Club Member
Supposedly 2 issues:
The shoe company paying to have players steered to a particular school, and,
"Under the first group of charges, the U.S. Attorney is alleging that assistant coaches at Arizona, Auburn, Oklahoma State and USC "took cash bribes" in order to steer elite basketball players toward certain financial advisers and sports agents. The assistants named in the indictment are Chuck Person (Auburn), Emanuel Richardson (Arizona), Lamont Evans (Oklahoma State) and Tony Bland (USC)."
 

BuffDog

Club Member
Club Member
Emanuel Richardson's bio below on the AZ website reads more interesting now that the law breaking/cheating news has broken.

What should the penalty to AZ basketball be for cheating for 11 years? I often felt like we were one 5* player away from a Top 15 team but it looks like that is hard to do if your coach and staff aren't willing to break laws and cheat. Very frustrating.

http://www.arizonawildcats.com/coaches.aspx?rc=714&path=mbball

Now in his ninth season at Arizona, Emanuel “Book” Richardson has firmly established himself as one of the finest recruiters in college basketball.
Richardson joined the Arizona basketball family in the spring of 2009, and is currently in his 11th season as a member of Sean Miller’s coaching staff.
His efforts in building and strengthening UA’s recruiting ties across the country has helped Arizona land top-10 recruiting classes in each of the last seven years, including five top-five classes during that period of time.
Richardson’s contributions at Arizona have not only been felt on the recruiting trail, however. As a member of the UA staff for the entire Miller Era, Richardson has helped guide the Wildcats to a 220-66 (.769) record, five Sweet 16s, three Elite Eights, four Pac-12 regular-season championships and a pair of Pac-12 Tournament titles.
Arizona’s recruiting hauled in another top-three recruiting class in 2016, which included a pair of McDonald’s All-Americans in Kobi Simmons. The 2016 class also featured two other five-star prospects, including Rawle Alkins from Richardson’s hometown of New York City.
 

CitizenKane

Well-Known Member
Guys, before you get all high & mighty and holier than thou, I just want to remind everyone that Tyler Dorsey visited here.

And that visit came out of nowhere.
Hey wait, are you implying Nike would pay him more to go to hOregon?!?!:sneaky:
 

dyemeduke

Well-Known Member
Guys, before you get all high & mighty and holier than thou, I just want to remind everyone that Tyler Dorsey visited here.

And that visit came out of nowhere.
Agreed, and as much as I'd like to think that Duke and Coach K's past success and allure are enough to convince big time kids to commit to Duke, there's no denying that Coach Capel has heightened the recruiting at Duke. He's not the only "great" recruiter on that staff either. Cal has been dirty in the past, and I'm convinced he's dirty now. Alford and his assts... ...

My only concern is that this investigation will just hit a handful of programs hard, and not the whole structure of what we've created. Sometimes things need to be significantly burned down in order for new, better things to grow.
 

SewallBeach

Club Member
Club Member
Guys, before you get all high & mighty and holier than thou, I just want to remind everyone that Tyler Dorsey visited here.

And that visit came out of nowhere.
I have seen his name mentioned elsewhere today. Are you insinuating something happened here to convince him to visit, or just presenting it as a possibility given where he ended up?
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
No, they can in college basketball. They just have to hide it. Get rid of the hiding.
Making college basketball a hybrid European Soccer/American Baseball league sounds like the worst idea ever. Just get rid of the age limit on those entering the draft and move on.
 

Goose

Hoops Moderator
Club Member
Junta Member
Making college basketball a hybrid European Soccer/American Baseball league sounds like the worst idea ever. Just get rid of the age limit on those entering the draft and move on.
I agree with that too. Get rid of the age limit.

But if boosters are giving these kids cash - and even in the mid-majors these kids are getting cash handshakes - why outlaw them?
 

ahoelsken

Well-Known Member
I agree with that too. Get rid of the age limit.

But if boosters are giving these kids cash - and even in the mid-majors these kids are getting cash handshakes - why outlaw them?
Huge difference between that and outright bribery. I saw in a post earlier in this thread a quote about "modern day slavery"......and that's what this kind of stuff is. I think the sanctions for the now 5 programs involved in this need to be severe. Given Louisville got probation from the NCAA a month before this meeting in a Vegas hotel room took place, I don't see any reason why that program doesn't deserve the death penalty or something along the lines of what Baylor got Scott Drew's first year (where they only played a Big 12 schedule). As far as the other four......well this is the epitome of lack of institutional control. These guys weren't doing this without the knowledge of the coaches they worked for-Bruce Pearl, Sean Miller, Andy Enfield, and whoever Lamont Evans worked for in Stillwater either condoned this stuff or ignored it IMO.

Its no secret that recruiting in this sport is a sleazy business. This is an opportunity for the NCAA to send a message to this sport-drop the hammer on everybody involved here.
 

buffaholic

Club Member
Club Member
Guys, before you get all high & mighty and holier than thou, I just want to remind everyone that Tyler Dorsey visited here.

And that visit came out of nowhere.
Well, if any of my donation money was used to get Dorsey to visit, I feel ripped off. Not because I'm holier than thou but because he pretty much **** on us when he was here. Who pays for that?
 
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