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Wow

Buffnik said:
Well, that Harvard team just beat a 5 seed to advance to the Round of 32.

5-seed Oklahoma lost to North Dakota State.

And New Mexico State just took 4-seed SDSU into OT.

There's not anything magical about the teams in that range.

And I think that you're not realizing that teams go through progression as a season season evolves. Buffs were very young this year and had survived growing pains to be 8-2. The rotation had gotten pretty consistent with 8 or 9 guys. Then, Spencer went down along with Fletch from the top 8 guys. The Buffs had to try to re-invent themselves. Then Wes got hurt. All of this disruption to the evolution of this team made it impossible that they'd progress the way a Virginia did throughout the season. But that was on the table for these Buffs the day of the Washington game.
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That Harvard team was missing Wesley Saunders if I recall correctly. And let's face it, we're a different team at home. Oklahoma shouldn't have been a 5 seed imo. I don't want to get too wrapped up in what we could or could not have been with Spence. We could've got a luckier draw too. Saying that we'd progress as well as Virginia, who I think is not as young, seems a bit of a reach though.
 
BuffG said:
That Harvard team was missing Wesley Saunders if I recall correctly. And let's face it, we're a different team at home. Oklahoma shouldn't have been a 5 seed imo. I don't want to get too wrapped up in what we could or could not have been with Spence. We could've got a luckier draw too. Saying that we could've been where Virginia is seems a bit of a reach though.
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the irony is Virginia had a far less impressive first two months of the season than CU did. In fact, we would have defeated them in November or December. But they worked their depth out and had freshmen really step up right at the time we had Spencer go down.

And yeah, Virginia has some young pieces out there (a lot of sophomores, especially) but Joe Harris and Akil Mitchell are both seniors and that's huge.
 
CVilleBuff said:
the irony is Virginia had a far less impressive first two months of the season than CU did. In fact, we would have defeated them in November or December. But they worked their depth out and had freshmen really step up right at the time we had Spencer go down.

And yeah, Virginia has some young pieces out there (a lot of sophomores, especially) but Joe Harris and Akil Mitchell are both seniors and that's huge.
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I recall them being rated top 25 before the VCU loss. You know better than me, but are you saying that on a neutral court? Because I don't think we played up to our ability in any neutral court game this season
 
BuffG said:
That Harvard team was missing Wesley Saunders if I recall correctly. And let's face it, we're a different team at home. Oklahoma shouldn't have been a 5 seed imo. I don't want to get too wrapped up in what we could or could not have been with Spence. We could've got a luckier draw too. Saying that we'd progress as well as Virginia, who I think is not as young, seems a bit of a reach though.
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Saunders played a ton of minutes. I don't know about Oklahoma. They were clutch during conference play. If Texas is a legit 7, then Oklahoma was a legit 5. And I didn't say that CU would have progressed as well as Virginia, I'm saying that we shouldn't assume they wouldn't have. All during the non-conference all I heard was frustration over this team being so far below its ceiling and how there was so much potential. With continuity, who's to say they wouldn't have reached that ceiling?
 
BuffG said:
I did not recall correctly. My bad. Thought they were missing someone mustve confused it with UCSB. Still, though, it was at home.
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UCSB was missing its all-conference big when we played them. Good thing, too. That was the worst performance by the Buffs during the OOC.
 
BuffG said:
I recall them being rated top 25 before the VCU loss. You know better than me, but are you saying that on a neutral court? Because I don't think we played up to our ability in any neutral court game this season
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Virginia started in the top 25 but quickly fell out after VCU. I've never seen a team improve so drastically in January. Virginia was on pace to be a bubble team after scoring 38 at home against Wisconsin, losing at Green Bay, and getting slaughtered by 35 by the Vols on NYE. After that, Bennett found a rotation that worked in their first ACC game at FSU and freshman point guard London Perrantes started playing like a phenom. I know it sounds crazy now, but there's little doubt in my mind CU would have defeated UVA on a neutral court in November or December. UVA was just not good back then. I've simply never seen anything like it in regards to how drastically they improved. Many UVA fans were already chalking it up as a disappointment of a season.
 
Buffnik said:
Saunders played a ton of minutes. I don't know about Oklahoma. They were clutch during conference play. If Texas is a legit 7, then Oklahoma was a legit 5. And I didn't say that CU would have progressed as well as Virginia, I'm saying that we shouldn't assume they wouldn't have. All during the non-conference all I heard was frustration over this team being so far below its ceiling and how there was so much potential. With continuity, who's to say they wouldn't have reached that ceiling?
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You could make arguments either way for Oklahoma being that high of a seed. I'm not the only one who questioned it though. Anyhow, I can't say too much on UVA as I only watched them a few times this year, but that type of progression would have taken the whole team w/ or w/o Dinwiddie. Trying to avoid what-ifs and go from what's there and the whole team did not progress much offensively.
 
CVilleBuff said:
Virginia started in the top 25 but quickly fell out after VCU. I've never seen a team improve so drastically in January. Virginia was on pace to be a bubble team after scoring 38 at home against Wisconsin, losing at Green Bay, and getting slaughtered by 35 by the Vols on NYE. After that, Bennett found a rotation that worked in their first ACC game at FSU and freshman point guard London Perrantes started playing like a phenom. I know it sounds crazy now, but there's little doubt in my mind CU would have defeated UVA on a neutral court in November or December. UVA was just not good back then. I've simply never seen anything like it in regards to how drastically they improved. Many UVA fans were already chalking it up as a disappointment of a season.
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I'll take your word for it. I know Gill was new to the rotation but it seems like they don't have any freshmen in their rotation. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to see that kind of progression next year
 
BuffG said:
I'll take your word for it. I know Gill was new to the rotation but it seems like they don't have any freshmen in their rotation. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to see that kind of progression next year
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London Perrantes is a true freshman and what makes them tick.

Gill transferred in as you mention.

Malcolm Brogdon tore his ACL and redshirted last year.

Brogdon started the year as PG and it just was not working. He is now excelling with the move away from PG.

UVA was going 10 deep, in January they pushed it down to 8 with the 9th guy playing sparingly (always nice when your 9th player is a former high 4*) And their roster isn't as clear cut as most between who should be starting and who shouldn't. Figuring out that Justin Anderson (who is absurdly athletic and talented) and Mike Tobey (Easily the most talented of the big men, he was on Team USA U19 last summer with the usual suspects from Duke, Kentucky, etc) should both come off the bench was not readily apparent. In fact, it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense but it's clearly what works. Add in the Brogdon at PG fiasco, and it took 2 months to figure it all out.
 
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azbuff said:
I'm sorry if some of you have such gold colored glasses that you can't watch seeds 1-5 in every region and recognize they are much better than we were at any point this season.
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Oh really, I don't understand how are you so sure about this. If Spencer was healthy, there is definitely an decent chance for us to knock down either UCLA, VCU or Oklahoma. I'm not sure if I can find even 10 teams "much better" than us with Spencer.
 
The only thing I will say about the absolutely pathetic performance by our guys and then I am moving on to next sesason. We need someone on this team to develop some b*lls and some attitude. We have nobody on the roster right now who is going to pound their chest and demand the rock, put the team on their back, and demand a higher level of play from the rest of the guys. We were a passive group today and any big game since Spencer went down. Our guys stay around the perimeter passing back and forth, picking up their dribbles when they sense even the slightest bit of pressure, and wilt in the big moments. The way that we played yesterday and against AZ the last two times is embarrassing. Having said that, I still fully support this team and hope one of the guys develops into a leader before next year.
 
This is what I'm really excited about for our basketball team.

New fans who are experts on identifying and measuring intangables like "Heart," "desire," and "softness," which are skills that unfortunately only dwell inside the bodies of overweight, balding, middle aged men.

We have unironically reached a major mile stone for our basketball program.
 
The Monk said:
This is what I'm really excited about for our basketball team.

New fans who are experts on identifying and measuring intangables like "Heart," "desire," and "softness," which are skills that unfortunately only dwell inside the bodies of overweight, balding, middle aged men.

We have unironically reached a major mile stone for our basketball program.
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I will assume you're refering to my post here. Well, first off I am not fat, bald, or middle-aged but solid assumption. Secondly, if you can look at our performance yesterday and say we gave it all we had and our guys came out sharp and ready to leave it all on the court, well there`s just no talking to you. BTW, I am not a recent basketball convert. I can say with a good deal of certainty that I have played enough hoop to know a bit about the ins and outs.
 
Buffnik said:
Well, that Harvard team just beat a 5 seed to advance to the Round of 32.

5-seed Oklahoma lost to North Dakota State.

And New Mexico State just took 4-seed SDSU into OT.

There's not anything magical about the teams in that range.

And I think that you're not realizing that teams go through progression as a season season evolves. Buffs were very young this year and had survived growing pains to be 14-2. The rotation had gotten pretty consistent with 8 or 9 guys. Then, Spencer went down along with Fletch from the top 8 guys. The Buffs had to try to re-invent themselves. Then Wes got hurt. All of this disruption to the evolution of this team made it impossible that they'd progress the way a Virginia did throughout the season. But that was on the table for these Buffs the day of the Washington game.
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5 seeds lose to 12 seeds every year. It doesn't mean they are "worse" than the 12 seed. They are only worse than the 12 seed on that particular day, a very small sample size. We had but a few impressive games before Spencer went down and they were all at home. We looked like trash the game before Spencer got hurt. I think we were in the 30 range with Spencer and no other injuries. Maybe a 6 seed. Without him, we were in the 40-45 range IMO. I understand what you are saying, I just disagree with the notion that we were a surefire top-15 team with Spencer.

cnbuff410 said:
Oh really, I don't understand how are you so sure about this. If Spencer was healthy, there is definitely an decent chance for us to knock down either UCLA, VCU or Oklahoma. I'm not sure if I can find even 10 teams "much better" than us with Spencer.
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I'm not so sure about it. The season is over and some started speculating, so I threw in my two cents. It isn't more or less valuable than any one else's opinion on the boards. I agree we would have a "decent" shot against UCLA, VCU and Oklahoma with Spencer, but I wouldn't bet on us with Spencer against those teams unless the game was in Boulder. 10 teams much better than us with Spencer: Florida, Arizona, Wichita State, Virginia, MSU, Michigan, Duke, Syracuse, Villanova, Louisville, Wisconsin, even Kansas and UCLA. Now, we have a shot against all of those teams with Spencer (as illustrated by the Kansas game), but I think we're lucky to win more than 20% of our games on a neutral court with Spencer against those teams (as illustrated by the Baylor, Okie State and WSU games).
 
this is straight from Tad's post game presser. Goose was on to something.

I've got to help them more offensively so we don't have five assists and 17 turnovers.
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Sometimes getting completely exposed is good. I think it is forcing Tad to evaluate his team more honestly than a close loss would. This game (and our games versus Arizona, UCLA, etc..) would not have been a win if we had played a couple of possessions differently. It is going to take a change in way Tad coaches this team and the way we play and prepare.
 
azbuff said:
It strikes me not only that we lack offense, but also that we lack leadership. Both were true even with Spencer.
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It is a BINGO! Even with Spencer, the Buffs did not have a true point guard on the floor and his showing at Wazzou, left huge questions about his leadership.

SD has always been more of a combo guard learning to be a #1 and Ski is the same. XT is as close as they have and he came from a program and area of the state where he did not have the chance to compete at the highest level until this year.

Until SD went down, I think XT wasn't even close to confident he belongs as regular on a high major team. Then, when forced to, he stepped up in his own right, but mid-season wasn't the best time for him to develop as a true leader. His progress over the summer will be a key for next year, since I don't think Dom will be physically ready to compete next fall. Scoot can stop being so silent as well. If he's not happy about his teammates standing around while he's DT'ed, he can order up some help and make it it stick. No more Gary Cooper-silent man act for Scott!

Plus, despite all this emphasis on "D", Tad still needs a drop-dead Euro shooter; a kid with a bit less athleticism on "D", but excellent fundementals, including a shooting form that allows him to knock down long jumpers, not only tres, but those long dueces, too. Nothing seems more discouraging(aside from garbage shots falling ala AZ) than a series of knock down jumpers.

Finally, I'd like to see more zone, as a change-up and differing options on "O". What might Pitt have done if faced with a zone from the start and with Gordon in the middle and Scott at #4? Sure, they might have quickly recovered, but it could have given them huge pause, since they had little enough of an outside game and a chance for the Buffs to recover. The TO's were worthless,it was incumbent upon Tad to do something "hinky" on the floor! A tough zone could have greatly helped, especially when Pitt's game was so inside-oriented. But to stick with the exact same "D" that's getting absolutely pounded and expect a different result, well that's .........
 
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I find it hard to believe people can't see how losing Spencer DID change this team and made a huge impact in what we could have been and what we ended up being. You took a pro...maybe the only pro on this team at this point...out of the lineup. That was a huge turn of events.
 
SECOBuffsFan said:
I find it hard to believe people can't see how losing Spencer DID change this team and made a huge impact in what we could have been and what we ended up being. You took a pro...maybe the only pro on this team at this point...out of the lineup. That was a huge turn of events.
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Not even just out of the line up. Lost him mid-season. In the middle of the best start in Colorado Basketball history. With him and Fletcher out, the whole thing had to be blown up and restarted. As I think Nik said, if you had told me that we would be an 8 seed after losing dre and losing spencer mid season to an ACL injury, I would have called you a moron.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
The first couple lines of the DC game story summed it up pretty well:

What went right
Nothing.


http://www.buffzone.com/ci_25385909/cu-basketball-buffs-pummeled-by-panthers
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Compounded by doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result......Gotta admit: Tad remains very stubborn!

He, like most coachs, should read a little Sun Tzu. With this team, doing something "different'---zone and Scott at #4,with Gordon at #5---may have shaken up both the Buffs and the opponent.

It was worth a try, what Tad did in actuality, didn't work worth a tinker's dam!
 
Buffenuf said:
Your "smiley" betrays your ignorance, but then, you knew that!

Tad needs: less "Burnside at Fredericksburg", more "Lee at Chancellorsville"!

I'll let you look it up, you might learn something.
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Go **** yourself with your pseudo intellect. The art of war is the douche-bag's bible that is why I used the roll eyes smiley.
 
Shldr2Shldr said:
The only talent deficit we need to make up for is the one where we lose our all american point guard and NBA lottery pick mid season. None of the players, except maybe scott, were expected to handle the kind of roles they ended up having to handle. Teams that lose what we did typically fold. Ours kept fighting best they could. Its not Tad's fault that the entire off-season was spent teaching and preparing for a certain type of offense, and then our centerpiece goes down ruining all plans and schemes.

This loss hurts. I get it. This team is not a lost cause.
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I agree with you pretty much. The team is not a lost cause, but a Spencer-less CU team has been very inconsistent and sometimes lost, and while there
is kind of a base to build on without him, there needs to be some quality adds. As I said earlier I hope Tory Miller (and Collier) are 2 of those pieces relatively early. I refrained from saying it after Spencer went down and the rest of the season played out, I used to think he made the other guys better, but he really just made the other guys look better.




 
PAHIBuff said:
I agree with you pretty much. The team is not a lost cause, but a Spencer-less CU team has been very inconsistent and sometimes lost, and while there
is kind of a base to build on without him, there needs to be some quality adds. As I said earlier I hope Tory Miller (and Collier) are 2 of those pieces relatively early. I refrained from saying it after Spencer went down and the rest of the season played out, I used to think he made the other guys better, but he really just made the other guys look better.




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An NBA lottery pick will do that.
 
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