As of Early Signing Period - 2018 Class Grade

[8Jah]

An A?? You must not have very high expectations for CU if you think this is as good as it gets for us.

Also I think while our rank looks pretty good now, expect it to drop some since we're nearly full and many of the Pac schools have more players to add in February.

I don't think it is reasonable for us to expect a top twenty recruiting class this year...and I don't much care about rankings after that. So if we move a little higher or lower in the 'rankings' it is all in noise really.

Like Howell said today - to get better recruits we have to win more. Its an incremental process. So I am grading based on what was humanly possible for the recruiters given the circumstances they had (put themselves into). For what we have done this year and over the past few years on the field I think this is an A- class.

 

[somebody]

Grades should be based on expectations. Circumstance-based grades are the equivalent of trophies for everyone.

 

[Highlander]

I don't think it is reasonable for us to expect a top twenty recruiting class this year...and I don't much care about rankings after that. So if we move a little higher or lower in the 'rankings' it is all in noise really.

Like Howell said today - to get better recruits we have to win more. Its an incremental process. So I am grading based on what was humanly possible for the recruiters given the circumstances they had (put themselves into). For what we have done this year and over the past few years on the field I think this is an A- class.

No, 8Jah, just no. This train of thought was valid when Mac took over and we were arguably the worst FBS program for a couple of years prior. We are so long past that this line of thinking needs to be crushed. We won 10 games last year and finished the year ranked 17th. Our recruiting this year should reflect that standing. It does not - we stand at 44th nationally and 7th in the Pac 12 according to 247. And it is just barely at the minimally acceptable level that I don't throw a raging fit.

We are no longer the little sisters of the poor. We should not be beaten out in recruiting by WSU and Cal - that is not acceptable.

 

[vinniew_11]

No, 8Jah, just no. This train of thought was valid when Mac took over and we were arguably the worst FBS program for a couple of years prior. We are so long past that this line of thinking needs to be crushed. We won 10 games last year and finished the year ranked 17th. Our recruiting this year should reflect that standing. It does not - we stand at 44th nationally and 7th in the Pac 12 according to 247. And it is just barely at the minimally acceptable level that I don't throw a raging fit.

We are no longer the little sisters of the poor. We should not be beaten out in recruiting by WSU and Cal - that is not acceptable.

And if you honestly think ONE good year will turn around recruiting in a blink, that’s delusional. Progressive steps forward is what we should expect and it’s what we are getting.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I don't think it is reasonable for us to expect a top twenty recruiting class this year...and I don't much care about rankings after that. So if we move a little higher or lower in the 'rankings' it is all in noise really.

Like Howell said today - to get better recruits we have to win more. Its an incremental process. So I am grading based on what was humanly possible for the recruiters given the circumstances they had (put themselves into). For what we have done this year and over the past few years on the field I think this is an A- class.

Now I see why you are so forgiving to Jeffcoat - your expectations are about as low as anyone here. All we have to do is keep losing and classes like this will look phenomenal in comparison - that's a strategy I guess.

 

[Highlander]

And if you honestly think ONE good year will turn around recruiting in a blink, that’s delusional. Progressive steps forward is what we should expect and it’s what we are getting.

If you honestly think one good year on the field won't turn around recruiting two years later IF we had the right recruiters doing the work, that's delusional.

 

[8Jah]

No, 8Jah, just no. This train of thought was valid when Mac took over and we were arguably the worst FBS program for a couple of years prior. We are so long past that this line of thinking needs to be crushed. We won 10 games last year and finished the year ranked 17th. Our recruiting this year should reflect that standing. It does not - we stand at 44th nationally and 7th in the Pac 12 according to 247. And it is just barely at the minimally acceptable level that I don't throw a raging fit.

We are no longer the little sisters of the poor. We should not be beaten out in recruiting by WSU and Cal - that is not acceptable.

Are you being sarcastic or serious? I don't have any evidence to say that WSU or Cal have a better class than CU this year. If you think there is a real difference between the 38th, 39th and 44th class in 247 you are bananas.

What seems very plain to me is that we are recruiting at about the middle of the pac12, which is very close to our two year average conference ranking.

 

[8Jah]

Now I see why you are so forgiving to Jeffcoat - your expectations are about as low as anyone here. All we have to do is keep losing and classes like this will look phenomenal in comparison - that's a strategy I guess.

Don't even know if this comment is coherent. Have no idea where you are going.

 

[Duff Man]

We grade everything on a curve. The 2017 season was actually B/B+ on the field.

 

[jizzrag85]

Lol never mind.

 

[jizzrag85]

We grade everything on a curve. The 2017 season was actually B/B+ on the field.

I was going more A+/A++

 

[SINKRATZ]

Don't even know if this comment is coherent. Have no idea where you are going.

It's obvious, but I'll 'splain it to you anyway:

You don't expect top 20 classes, and in your world anything outside the top 20 is basically the same so it would be pretty hard to disappoint you. That explains why you continually give Jeffcoat a pass - because your expectations are so incredibly low.

 

[jkppkjjkp]

Are you being sarcastic or serious? I don't have any evidence to say that WSU or Cal have a better class than CU this year. If you think there is a real difference between the 38th, 39th and 44th class in 247 you are bananas.

What seems very plain to me is that we are recruiting at about the middle of the pac12, which is very close to our two year average conference ranking.

To me, that's a C grade; passing, doing your job, not above average or exceptional.

On the curve, they're recruiting about to the level of recent results.

Off the curve, they're recruiting to about the middle of the Pac.

Both earn a C in my book.

 

[8Jah]

It's obvious, but I'll 'splain it to you anyway:

You don't expect top 20 classes, and in your world anything outside the top 20 is basically the same so it would be pretty hard to disappoint you. That explains why you continually give Jeffcoat a pass - because your expectations are so incredibly low.

My expectations aren’t low, I am just rational. Visit the Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Utah, etc... boards and you will find the same type of fanboys furious that they couldn’t be in the top 4 recruit star rating in the PAC-12. Why their recruiters couldn’t just bring in new recruits talented way beyond their football teams performance. It’s all magical thinking.

I also don’t think all recruiting classes are the same. Evidence shows the team star rating system isn’t accurate after about a class of 30. Ranking 17 year olds ain’t a science...there is plenty of error. MM does a pretty good job of out-evaluating the recruiting sites.

BTW I give us a D+ for what we did on the field this year...but that is a different topic.

 

[Duff Man]

Why does MM get a D+ for basically matching the expected record given past recruiting? Hardly seems fair to overvalue the recruiting when they sign and then undervalue his coaching once they see the field.

 

[SINKRATZ]

My expectations aren’t low, I am just rational. Visit the Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Utah, etc... boards and you will find the same type of fanboys furious that they couldn’t be in the top 4 recruit star rating in the PAC-12. Why their recruiters couldn’t just bring in new recruits talented way beyond their football teams performance. It’s all magical thinking.

I also don’t think all recruiting classes are the same. Evidence shows the team star rating system isn’t accurate after about a class of 30. Ranking 17 year olds ain’t a science...there is plenty of error. MM does a pretty good job of out-evaluating the recruiting sites.

BTW I give us a D+ for what we did on the field this year...but that is a different topic.

None of the teams you named are coming off a 10-win season, and division championship with the national coach of the year. I'm not disappointed with this class, but yes I expect to out recruit those programs.

You've acknowledged grading the recruiting on a curve based on a disappointing season on the field (D+ for the season, A for recruiting). That's why I said all we have to do is keep losing and the recruiting will look amazing in comparison.

 

[Sykobuff]

Are you being sarcastic or serious? I don't have any evidence to say that WSU or Cal have a better class than CU this year. If you think there is a real difference between the 38th, 39th and 44th class in 247 you are bananas.

What seems very plain to me is that we are recruiting at about the middle of the pac12, which is very close to our two year average conference ranking.

Those numbers are clearly not meeting the goals set by RG.

 

[CULifer]

It's obvious, but I'll 'splain it to you anyway:

You don't expect top 20 classes, and in your world anything outside the top 20 is basically the same so it would be pretty hard to disappoint you. That explains why you continually give Jeffcoat a pass - because your expectations are so incredibly low.

That has been 'splained to 8jah rah rah rah a billion times, basically. I don't fault you for trying, but there's a point at which one stops trying to get through. I wonder if that point has nearly been reached.

 

[8Jah]

Why does MM get a D+ for basically matching the expected record given past recruiting? Hardly seems fair to overvalue the recruiting when they sign and then undervalue his coaching once they see the field.

Recruiting is massively important but not the only factor that determines season outcomes.

MM put seven kids in the NFL from classes ranked in the 70s (whatever those rankings are worth). I don’t knock him for recruiting. I even think other teams are starting to become MM recruit watchers.

I get you think the core of the problem is recruiting. I think it is something else. Maybee we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Sykobuff]

Recruiting is massively important but not the only factor that determines season outcomes.

MM put seven kids in the NFL from classes ranked in the 70s (whatever those rankings are worth). I don’t knock him for recruiting. I even think other teams are starting to become MM recruit watchers.

I get you think the core of the problem is recruiting. I think it is something else. Maybee we can just agree to disagree.

The only thing left is coaching. ..

 

[manhattanbuff]

FWIW, Bronco Mendenhall was on ESPNU radio today. One thing he mentioned that stood out to me: his staff’s main recruiting criterion is that the recruit/signee must be a talent upgrade over what’s on the roster currently.

It seems simple, but is very profound. Maybe it is why they are 6-6 after going 2-10 last year. The only way teams get better year over year is by carefully evaluating talent in your footprint and recruiting upgrades. Most programs aren’t elite so continous improvement with every signee is a must.

If we are realistic with this standard, I think that we upgraded roster positions with several signings. That’s why I think B is a fair grade.

 

[Duff Man]

Recruiting is massively important but not the only factor that determines season outcomes.

MM put seven kids in the NFL from classes ranked in the 70s (whatever those rankings are worth). I don’t knock him for recruiting. I even think other teams are starting to become MM recruit watchers.

I get you think the core of the problem is recruiting. I think it is something else. Maybee we can just agree to disagree.

I think 5-7 can be attributed to deficiencies in both coaching and recruiting. Go back and look at the 2014 class. If you can honestly say with a straight face that is good recruiting, then yes we will just have to disagree. But I think even you will admit that is a pretty bad class and is part (not all) of the struggles we saw on the field this season.

You keep saying recruiting is massively important, but it seems like you think any 25 players will do in a given year because you think most of it is unimportant after an arbitrary cutoff. 2017 should have been somewhat of wakeup call in that regard, but instead it seems like you just want to attribute it all to strange qualititative observations.

 

[8Jah]

I think 5-7 can be attributed to deficiencies in both coaching and recruiting. Go back and look at the 2014 class. If you can honestly say with a straight face that is good recruiting, then yes we will just have to disagree. But I think even you will admit that is a pretty bad class and is part (not all) of the struggles we saw on the field this season.

You keep saying recruiting is massively important, but it seems like you think any 25 players will do in a given year because you think most of it is unimportant after an arbitrary cutoff. 2017 should have been somewhat of wakeup call in that regard, but instead it seems like you just want to attribute it all to strange qualititative observations.

Many dimensions to coaching...but that probably belongs in BARZIL.

But If you can’t get even close to what I’m saying by now I give up. It’s just hopeless. Not worth my time.

 

[Burrito]

Good talk.

 

[jizzrag85]

Funny thing about 2014 was that Witherspoon was a 2 star nobody that turned into an NFL player.

 

[FLounder]

Funny thing about 2014 was that Witherspoon was a 2 star nobody that turned into an NFL starter and captain.

Fify

 

[BuffsNYC]

FWIW, Bronco Mendenhall was on ESPNU radio today. One thing he mentioned that stood out to me: his staff’s main recruiting criterion is that the recruit/signee must be a talent upgrade over what’s on the roster currently.

It seems simple, but is very profound. Maybe it is why they are 6-6 after going 2-10 last year. The only way teams get better year over year is by carefully evaluating talent in your footprint and recruiting upgrades. Most programs aren’t elite so continous improvement with every signee is a must.

If we are realistic with this standard, I think that we upgraded roster positions with several signings. That’s why I think B is a fair grade.

That's the worst kind of coach speak. UVA should be signing only five stars in the coming seasons if he's going to continuously get better players than the ones he has.

 

[CUFan]

Whats been killing us is the inability to recruit talent on O line and D line. Too many projects. That absolutely killed us this year. It seems the young depth may be better, so I am hopeful we will start seeing some improvement there. But poor recruiting on the lines was a massive failure by this staff.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Funny thing about 2014 was that Witherspoon was a 2 star nobody that turned into an NFL player.

These kind of statements drive me nuts.

Pretty sure he was a 3-star but regardless for every Witherspoon who overachieves you have a Isaiah Holland, Wyatt Smith, Michael Mathews, Sully Wiefuls, Sam Bennion, or Hayden Jones who were low rated and basically never contributed.

The one guy who outperforms his ranking doesn't make up for the 5-6 that don't contribute.

 

[jizzrag85]

These kind of statements drive me nuts.

Pretty sure he was a 3-star but regardless for every Witherspoon who overachieves you have a Isaiah Holland, Wyatt Smith, Michael Mathews, Sully Wiefuls, Sam Bennion, or Hayden Jones who were low rated and basically never contributed.

The one guy who outperforms his ranking doesn't make up for the 5-6 that don't contribute.

Nope. 2 Star, rated 47th best cornerback in juco. Anyways, all I said was it was funny that the 2 star happened to be one of the best players of that class and went to the NFL and you had to go off on a tangent. Do you feel better?