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Big 1(1)0 to expand?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by OKCBuff, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    That's what Barry Alvarez is saying... and I bet bet he has some stroke. Obviously, it won't be Notre Dame because they're stubborn and foolish, so here are my top five:

    1. Pitt
    2. Louisville
    3. Rutgers (NYC TV base)
    4. West Virginia
    5. Syracuse (probably unrealistic since they're so tight with the basketball-only schools in the Big East)

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4735336

    I hope this would spur the Pac-10 to get to 12 so the conferences that matter would be at equal size and all have title games. That would make the BCS stuff at the end of the season a little more fair.
     
  2. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    Start CU to Pac 10 discussion in 3...2...1...
     
  3. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I see Pitt or Missouri.. Sryacuse has really lost a lot of its luster in football.. NYC is a bigger Notre Dame market than it is Rutgers so they are out.. I don't know but I don't think Louisville has the academics profile the Big 10 would be looking for and neither does West Virgina..
     
  4. Buttermaker

    Buttermaker Active Member

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    Missouri to the Big 10, TCU to the Big 12.
     
  5. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Actually I see Utah in the Big 12 before TCU... TCU doesn't have the facilities (thanks to the Winter Olympics)or fan support that a Utah does and wouldn't bring much to the conference since we already have 4 Texas teams.. The TCU to the Big 12 stuff is started by a bunch of dopey Southwest Conference lovers living in the past.. When conferences expand they are looking to bring in programs that will bring new fans and new markets to the conference.. TCU wouldn't bring anything to the Big 12.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
  6. Buttermaker

    Buttermaker Active Member

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    Disagree somewhat. First it brings the DFW TV market. Their facilities are not that bad Amon C Carter is pretty good size. They have spent good money on Baseball facilities. Basketball leaves something to be desired but the school has money.

    Agree that their fan support is weak.
     
  7. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Don't we already have the DFW TV market?
     
  8. 66BUFF

    66BUFF FTW Club Member

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    correct

    ags and whorns fans control the DFW, Houston and san antonio markets
     
  9. Buttermaker

    Buttermaker Active Member

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    I guess by default but not with a school located in the Metroplex:

    Tech - Lubbock
    A&M - College Station
    UT - Austin
    Baylor - Waco
     
  10. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    :yeahthat: Only way TCU gets into the conference is if we kick out Baylor which I don't see happening anytime soon. Texas could play a game against Southwest Sisters of the Little Poor of Texas in Jerry's stadium in Dallas and sell it out in no time.. TCU would play the same opponent and would probably be lucky to have it half full..


    And don't get me wrong, what they have done with their football program is very impressive.. But Im just looking at reality and seeing that adding TCU as the 5th member from the State of Texas with a 45000 seat stadium doesn't add a lot to the conference..


    The Big 12 will look at Utah, BYU, Arkansas or maybe a Kentucky or LSU (I doubt the three SEC schools would leave the lucrative SEC) if it had to replace anyone before it looked at some small school in the state of Texas.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
  11. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    if the big xii were to take a southern team in terms of geographical location, and its done because a team like mizzou from the north leaves, will that require a re-do of the divisions? say move OU from the south to the north or OSU? be kinda stupid to have an arkansas in the north division.
     
  12. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Actually I haven't looked at a map but I don't think Fayetteville is that much more south than Norman/Stillwater are. I believe its in the northwest corner of the state of Arkansas. :huh:


    Its an interesting debate, I'm guessing if they added a southern team to replace a Missouri that the Big 12 would want to improve the North by putting a have like an OU to balance out the conference..
     
  13. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    now that you mention it, you are probably right. didnt think about that. just thought "south".

    on the 2nd part.... moving OU to the north would be my thought too. the north has been such an afterthought on a national stage its not even funny. im sure the thought of it would PO the bubbas in okie but, it would probably make the most sense to keep the conference balanced. dont know what they would do about the OU/Texas game.
     
  14. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    It makes sense that the Big 11 would seek to get a 12th team so they can have a CCG and get that extra cash. ND is the obvious and logical choice but they're too arrogant and the Big 11 isn't gonna wait forever for them. Pitt would be a good choice geographically due to their proximity to PSU.
     
  15. mdelpizzo_1

    mdelpizzo_1 My Dixie Wrecked Club Member

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    Why don't they look at Toledo, already shown they can beat a BCS team...
     
  16. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    wrong thread.... nm
     
  17. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    OU to the north would rekindle the old NU-OU rivalry, too, and set up an annual OU-UT CCG.
     
  18. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Big 10 would have to split Ohio State and Michigan because you can't have the top 3 powers of the conference (OSU, PSU and Michigan) all in the same division..

    If its Pitt then the EAST would be Pitt, OSU, PSU, Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern.

    West would be: Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Illnois, Iowa, Minnesota.


    You add Missouri, I don't know what they would do.. Be some weird geography there in order to balance out the divisions.
     
  19. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Big Ten has made note that the only expansion they would do would be within their current footprint, or bordering their current footprint. Would have to be a University that was AAU member and most likely Carnegie designation: RU/VH. Success on the playing field would not have to be "world-beaters".

    Given that they now have the Big Ten network, market demographics would be a big factor in the decision.

    Pitt is AAU, RU/VH, has great facilities, is in a big market, but doesn't add anything that Penn State doesn't already deliver. Would be hard to break-up the "Backyard Brawl".

    Syracuse is AAU member, but only RU/H. Market is mediocre, private school not public (lacks "state" drawing power), facilities are mediocre.

    Rutgers is AAU & RU/VH, biggest market available. facilities are solid and getting better. Solid in all sports, would make the Big Ten the dominant conference in the northeast as Penn State and Rutgers would be a bigger "pair" than BC and UConn.

    Missouri is AAU & RU/VH. two big TV markets in KC and StL. Facilities are pretty good. Solid in all sports. Already has rivalry with Illinois, but bigger one with Kansas.

    Nebraska is AAU & RU/VH. TV market is small. Facilities would be at the top with Wisky, Mich, tOSu, Penn St. below average in basketball, historically elite football program. Could balance football power between an East/West alignment; rivalry with OU has already been "broken" by Big XII.

    Iowa State is AAU & RU/VH. TV market is minimal, as Iowa already is the big school in the state. Facilities would be below average. Decent in hoops, below average in football. Already plays rival Iowa in non-conf matchup.

    Maryland is AAU & RU/VH. TV market is really big. Facilities are mediocre but would be below-average in Big Ten. No real "rivalries" with Big Ten teams, and is a founding ACC member. Up and down football, but consistent basketball team.

    None of the other programs that fit the footprint have the academic credentials that the Big Ten seems to "require", not even Notre Dame. But, of course, the Irish have a long-standing invite to join.

    If not ND, then I could see Maryland, Rutgers, or Mizzou as their top 3 choices. Rutgers is the "near-Ivy" type school with long-standing traditions, a HUGE TV market, and wouldn't "threaten" the current top teams. Maryland is close to on-par, but Rutgers just seems to make more sense to me.
     
  20. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    not true. Rutgers is ranked 66 by US News. it's a very good public U, like CU at 77. "Near Ivy" is Vanderbilt or Emory in the 20's.

    the US News ranking are kinda BS, but Rutgers is a lot closer to Missouri or Texas ATM as a school than Princeton.
     
  21. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Would have figured they ranked higher in US News, but as you say they aren't always good comparisons.

    By "near-Ivy" was referring to their history (esp in athletics origins), traditions, and "colonial college" status alongside high academics.

    Probably not a good term to use, as there are alot of elite institutions that don't play athletics that are better "near-Ivy" labels.
     
  22. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    What would their name be?

    The Big 11
    The Big(ger) 12
    The Great 12
    The Better-than-thou 12
     
  23. aik

    aik Club Member Club Member

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    The Big-MAC. Every season they could have each team match up with the regular MAC in the nonconference. Or cancel it after the first year when the MAC wins the series.
     
  24. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    Their name brand is so strong they'd just stay the Big 10, I'm sure.

    I think the easiest solution is Pitt. It is a great school and already has a built-in (albeit semi-dormant) rivalry with PSU and would be close to Ohio State and the Michigan schools. I bet that will be the winner for a lot of reasons. (Rutgers is probably 2nd the more I think about it.)

    Missouri would be subject to that onerous two-year penalty clause in the Big 12 bylaws and they couldn't spring the conference even if they wanted. Plus, I think the Big 10 has always kind of looked down on them anyway.

    As for the divisions, I think they should copy the ACC format instead of the SEC/Big 12 version. Just place natural rivals in opposite divisions so they would have a shot to play in the title game and lock in those teams to the schedule each year and play five in-division games every year and two rotational spots.

    Div. 1/Div. 2
    PSU/Pitt
    Mich/Ohio State
    Indiana/Purdue
    Northwestern/Illinois
    Wisconsin/Minnesota
    Michigan St/Iowa (in math terms, the "remainders" and not really a huge rivalry)
     
  25. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    And if the Big 12 ever got away from geography, this would be my guess (with cross-opponent locked into schedule, five in-divisions and two rotating slots):

    Div. 1/Div. 2
    KU/MU
    CU/NU
    AM/TT
    UT/OU
    KS/OS
    BU/IS (again, leftovers)

    That would give you three current North teams in each of the new divisions, locks in historic rivalries via cross-division locking (UT/OU, CU/NU, KU/MU), ensures in-state rivalries (OSU/OU, KSU/KU, UT/A&M) and brings back OU/NU on an annual basis. This is something the Big 12 should look into for football.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  26. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    If they do this, they'll either expand east or west (assuming Neuter Lame won't come down from their ivory tower...). If they go east, Pitt is the logical choice. If they go west, Mizzou would be. My guess is that they'd try to secure the foothold in the northeast that they got from PSU and bring in Pitt.

    But it's more interesting to think what happens to the Big XII if Mizzou somehow made the move. I just don't see the conference splitting up OU and OSU, but if they did you can bet OSU would be the team to move. No way will they endanger the RRSO happening every year. I'm sure they'd rather add a team to the north, the problem is there are just no really attractive candidates. It would be a tough sell to get Utah to abandon the BYU rivalry, but they could do that as an OOC game, I guess. I'm just not sure if Salt Lake is an attractive market to the Big XII.... Arkansas makes the most sense, but I'm not sure they leave the SEC and if they do, they're going to demand to be in the south.

    Frankly, a Mizzou move would be very bad for the Big XII...
     
  27. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    The Conference That Can't Count
     
  28. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    I'm sure they'd just keep it the Big 10
     
  29. Razorbuff

    Razorbuff Member

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    No way Arkansas leaves the SEC... too much money.
     
  30. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    :nod:

    Not unless the Big XII somehow gets a TV contract one-upping the SEC's redonkulus one they just signed.
     

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