Chev vs Johnson

[RollTad21]

Were we too quick to run Chev out? I'd take Ihim at OC in a heatbeat right now. In reality, probably neither should be P5 OCs.

 

[PAC MAN]

With Chev and those 3 and outs, they would have been talking about our many 40+ points in a row the defense has given up. I love Chev but I like what I'm seeing from Johnson at this point. I thought the running game was going to be medicore but it has been better than medicore.

I'm not going to pass judgement on Johnson until late next year at the earliest.

Both coaches had Steven Montez as their starting QB.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

Johnson is better than Chev. This is a player problem. Way to many dropped passes, both this year and last, from Chev’s group. Unfortunately he is our best recruiter by far.

Johnson’s offense is not great but it is organized and well run. ( except the penalties and drops of course)

Johnson isn’t a great OC, but he is better than Chev.

 

[ElCunado]

Chev hit the Peter principe. Johnson might be there too. Or already has been there. I hope RG saw the opportunity of the initial sellouts to make an investment on AC salaries. And I hope HCMT has the balls to pull the trigger.

 

[ahoelsken]

Johnson is better than Chev. This is a player problem. Way to many dropped passes, both this year and last, from Chev’s group. Unfortunately he is our best recruiter by far.

Johnson’s offense is not great but it is organized and well run. ( except the penalties and drops of course)

Johnson isn’t a great OC, but he is better than Chev.

Tucker is well thought of in the profession-fair statement? Pretty well connected too-he's worked for Saban, Del Rio, Smart, and Jim Tressel. He worked with Mark Dantonio, and Fickell, among others. Yet, he brought us two coordinators off UGA's support staff. Go figure.

 

[cnbuff410]

Tucker is well thought of in the profession-fair statement? Pretty well connected too-he's worked for Saban, Del Rio, Smart, and Jim Tressel. He worked with Mark Dantonio, and Fickell, among others. Yet, he brought us two coordinators off UGA's support staff. Go figure.

Money. And no matter how are you disappointed, Johnson is at the bottom of our problem list.

 

[Trump's Eunuch]

It's tough to say because I don't believe last year was Chev, I think Mac was handcuffing him hard. I think Johnson's worst calls come in the redzone which is where well designed plays and good play calling are most important. Last year was so bad it feels now like an impossible dream so I'll take this year. I think it's pretty obvious montez can't go through a progression so maybe last year was because of that.

 

[b3buffs]

It's tough to say because I don't believe last year was Chev, I think Mac was handcuffing him hard. I think Johnson's worst calls come in the redzone which is where well designed plays and good play calling are most important. Last year was so bad it feels now like an impossible dream so I'll take this year. I think it's pretty obvious montez can't go through a progression so maybe last year was because of that.

Red zone is definitely a concern, but this year seems to have so many more opportunities where someone just hasn't made the plays that were there to be made.

 

[ahoelsken]

Money. And no matter how are you disappointed, Johnson is at the bottom of our problem list.

Our AC salary pool is average. We had enough to do better than UGA's quality control coaches as coordinators.

 

[cnbuff410]

Our AC salary pool is average. We had enough to do better than UGA's quality control coaches as coordinators.

Johnson is an average AC. Summers might be not, but I understand the mindset of going cheap on defensive side. Tucker might have made a mistake there.

 

[ahoelsken]

Johnson is an average AC. Summers might be not, but I understand the mindset of going cheap on defensive side. Tucker might have made a mistake there.

Kirby Smart sidesteps question on Georgia OC James Coley

Georgia coach Kirby Smart was asked Monday how he felt James Coley was doing as offensive coordinator this season.

www.ajc.com

From Elizabeth Street to Sanford Drive, the incredible journey of Georgia’s Dan Lanning

ATHENS – By all accounts, Dan Lanning is going to be named Georgia’s defensive coordinator in the coming days. Or, at the least, one of the D-coordinators.

www.dawgnation.com

Oh I don't think there's any doubt he whiffed on Summers. Tucker was turned down by his first choices on both sides of the ball per two Georgia blogs-he wanted James Coley on offense and Dan Lanning on defense (1st link says Coley was offered our OC gig and turned it down to stay at UGA, 2nd one says the same for Lanning). Its obvious he got out-foxed by Smart with respect to his DC choice-they had two young assistants, both of whom are highly thought of (Glenn Schumann being the other I'm referring to). I'd have offered Schumann my DC gig the minute I found out Lanning would call their D for the bowl game had I been Mel.

 

[cnbuff410]

Kirby Smart sidesteps question on Georgia OC James Coley

Georgia coach Kirby Smart was asked Monday how he felt James Coley was doing as offensive coordinator this season.

www.ajc.com

From Elizabeth Street to Sanford Drive, the incredible journey of Georgia’s Dan Lanning

ATHENS – By all accounts, Dan Lanning is going to be named Georgia’s defensive coordinator in the coming days. Or, at the least, one of the D-coordinators.

www.dawgnation.com

Oh I don't think there's any doubt he whiffed on Summers. Tucker was turned down by his first choices on both sides of the ball per two Georgia blogs-he wanted James Coley on offense and Dan Lanning on defense (1st link says Coley was offered our OC gig and turned it down to stay at UGA, 2nd one says the same for Lanning). Its obvious he got out-foxed by Smart with respect to his DC choice-they had two young assistants, both of whom are highly thought of (Glenn Schumann being the other I'm referring to). I'd have offered Schumann my DC gig the minute I found out Lanning would call their D for the bowl game had I been Mel.

It's not like James Coley is doing so well in Georgia either. Again, we are in agreement on the defense side here. I would replace a couple of defense staffs before even thinking about Johnson

 

[ahoelsken]

It's not like James Coley is doing so well in Georgia either. Again, we are in agreement on the defense side here. I would replace a couple of defense staffs before even thinking about Johnson

If Coley is open to making a move/concerned about his security at UGA, Id replace Johnson with him tomorrow. Coley would probably fit us better as a play caller-Miami fans bitched about him being run first. He's also one of the best recruiters in the sport.

 

[cnbuff410]

If Coley is open to making a move/concerned about his security at UGA, Id replace Johnson with him tomorrow. Coley would probably fit us better as a play caller-Miami fans bitched about him being run first. He's also one of the best recruiters in the sport.

If your problem with the offense is the lack of running, I'm not sure if you should blame Johnson more or Tucker.

Otherwise, most of the offensive problems to me are on certain players.

Johnson's read zone calling sucks, sure. That's the thing you deal with if you have an average play caller.

 

[PAC MAN]

Johnson's read zone calling sucks, sure. That's the thing you deal with if you have an average play caller.

Or a QB who might be afraid of getting hit. When the defenders see that, they simply zero on the other person in the zone read and dare Montez to run. I'm hoping next season's QBs are not afraid to get their jerseys dirty and be more like team players.

If we see problems like this all season long next year, then it's a good time to question OC Johnson as the play caller. You also got to question Nixon & Shenault's effort at times this year as well.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Tucker is well thought of in the profession-fair statement? Pretty well connected too-he's worked for Saban, Del Rio, Smart, and Jim Tressel. He worked with Mark Dantonio, and Fickell, among others. Yet, he brought us two coordinators off UGA's support staff. Go figure.

Dude. We are severely financially limited. Really good, proven coordinators cost much more money than we have to spend. Jay Johnson has been fine overall. Jay Johnson’s main faults this season are trusting Montez to audible, relying on Montez to make reads in option routes, and expecting Montez to go through progressions.

With JJ as the play caller, substitute Jake Luton for Montez and this team is likely already bowl eligible or close (even with our abysmal D).

The defensive staff is really where the lack of money comes into play. We had chances at better assistants but couldn’t win the bidding war for their services.

Another component that hurt us is the timing of Coach Tucker’s hire. There weren’t many chairs left when the music was winding down. We had to make some questionable hires on that side because of budget and timing.

We’ve seen it in years past. This year underscores it: really good assistants are the lifeblood of college football. Top ACs are an in demand labor force with a relatively limited number of excellent candidates. This is not the area where we can be a budget program. Really good assistants get really good players. Really good assistants get the most out of really good players.

Coach Tucker will need the latitude and resources this offseason to fire existing coaches and hire better ones. Without that, we will be back here again.

 

[Da Lama]

Real programs don't hire Quality Control Managers as OCs.

 

[ahoelsken]

Dude. We are severely financially limited. Really good, proven coordinators cost much more money than we have to spend. Jay Johnson has been fine overall. Jay Johnson’s main faults this season are trusting Montez to audible, relying on Montez to make reads in option routes, and expecting Montez to go through progressions.

With JJ as the play caller, substitute Jake Luton for Montez and this team is likely already bowl eligible or close (even with our abysmal D).

The defensive staff is really where the lack of money comes into play. We had chances at better assistants but couldn’t win the bidding war for their services.

Another component that hurt us is the timing of Coach Tucker’s hire. There weren’t many chairs left when the music was winding down. We had to make some questionable hires on that side because of budget and timing.

We’ve seen it in years past. This year underscores it: really good assistants are the lifeblood of college football. Top ACs are an in demand labor force with a relatively limited number of excellent candidates. This is not the area where we can be a budget program. Really good assistants get really good players. Really good assistants get the most out of really good players.

Coach Tucker will need the latitude and resources this offseason to fire existing coaches and hire better ones. Without that, we will be back here again.

The only part of this post I can obviously disagree with you is your first sentence. Go back to my first post in this thread-the links cite Tucker made offers to James Coley and Dan Lanning. UGA had two young defensive assistants in Dan Lanning and Glenn Schumann-both of them made $325k each in 2019, and both would have nearly doubled their salaries from LY had one of the followed Tucker here. No reason why we couldn't have landed one of them. Why not go after Schumann when Lanning says no? If the Atlanta paper says in the piece I posted in this thread that Coley had an offer to follow Tucker here, that tells me Tucker had a plan to build a staff with a pool of $3-3.5m and nearly a third of it (that's what I think Coley makes at UGA TY-so I think we can assume his offer to come here would have been in that same neighborhood) going to his offensive coordinator. This isn't as big an issue as you think it is.

 

[manhattanbuff]

The only part of this post I can obviously disagree with you is your first sentence. Go back to my first post in this thread-the links cite Tucker made offers to James Coley and Dan Lanning. UGA had two young defensive assistants in Dan Lanning and Glenn Schumann-both of them made $325k each in 2019, and both would have nearly doubled their salaries from LY had one of the followed Tucker here. No reason why we couldn't have landed one of them. Why not go after Schumann when Lanning says no? If the Atlanta paper says in the piece I posted in this thread that Coley had an offer to follow Tucker here, that tells me Tucker had a plan to build a staff with a pool of $3-3.5m and nearly a third of it (that's what I think Coley makes at UGA TY-so I think we can assume his offer to come here would have been in that same neighborhood) going to his offensive coordinator. This isn't as big an issue as you think it is.

It is a big issue.

1) You can’t match salaries with a bigger, better program in order to recruit top ACs. You must exceed their current compensation and the current team’s responding offer to make it worth their while to go to an inferior program.

2) We have a $3.1mm 2019 budget for assistants with a scheduled increase for the 2020 season. With an AC budget double ours, UGA gave their entire staff major increases. They can thank Coach Tucker’s hire at Colorado for that since the school saves money on his salary and associated taxes.

Coley is making $950K this year.
Lanning is making $750K this year.
Schumann is making $550K this year.

We are not players in this budget range.

 

[ahoelsken]

It is a big issue.

1) You can’t match salaries with a bigger, better program in order to recruit top ACs. You must exceed their current compensation and the current team’s responding offer to make it worth their while to go to an inferior program.

2) We have a $3.1mm 2019 budget for assistants with a scheduled increase for the 2020 season. With an AC budget double ours, UGA gave their entire staff major increases. They can thank Coach Tucker’s hire at Colorado for that since the school saves money on his salary and associated taxes.

Coley is making $950K this year.
Lanning is making $750K this year.
Schumann is making $550K this year.

We are not players in this budget range.

No question-but I think its fair to wonder a couple of things-One, Why even bother with Coley and Lanning? Two, was there a plan for these coordinator jobs-other than offer those two and hope Jim Chaney stayed at UGA and they didn't promote somebody internally to backfill Tucker (neither of which happened)?

 

[manhattanbuff]

No question-but I think its fair to wonder a couple of things-One, Why even bother with Coley and Lanning? Two, was there a plan for these coordinator jobs-other than offer those two and hope Jim Chaney stayed at UGA and they didn't promote somebody internally to backfill Tucker (neither of which happened)?

Two things:

1. I don’t hold JJ blameless. His number one failure here is his not understanding that confidence in Montez is a major liability. I understand that failing because Montez has an execution problem, not a knowing problem. In their meetings and practices, Montez says the right things. He just doesn’t do the right things enough in games. I understand this issue because, when developing talent, knowledge is the primary liability.

2. I don’t know if it’s true, but I think Coach Tucker genuinely thought he was going to get those guys. The money from UGA was simply too persuasive.

 

[ahoelsken]

Two things:

1. I don’t hold JJ blameless. His number one failure here is his not understanding that confidence in Montez is a major liability. I understand that failing because Montez has an execution problem, not a knowing problem. In their meetings and practices, Montez says the right things. He just doesn’t do the right things enough in games. I understand this issue because, when developing talent, knowledge is the primary liability.

2. I don’t know if it’s true, but I think Coach Tucker genuinely thought he was going to get those guys. The money from UGA was simply too persuasive.

As far as your first point, I think that's fair, and I think we agree. Johnson is not at the top of the list of issues right now. I think its time for Montez to sit-these last three games need to be looked at as the first three games of 2020.

As far as your second point, I don't understand how that's possible-too many variables, and several that I think Tucker didn't see. What happens with Jim Chaney? Who does Smart pick to call the defense in the Sugar Bowl (knowing that person will more than likely call the defense this season)?

 

[manhattanbuff]

As far as your first point, I think that's fair, and I think we agree. Johnson is not at the top of the list of issues right now. I think its time for Montez to sit-these last three games need to be looked at as the first three games of 2020.

As far as your second point, I don't understand how that's possible-too many variables, and several that I think Tucker didn't see. What happens with Jim Chaney? Who does Smart pick to call the defense in the Sugar Bowl (knowing that person will more than likely call the defense this season)?

Given how conservative Tucker is with his decision making, I think he’s had conversations about the future with those guys. However, when the chips were down, UGA’s money spoke too loudly. That’s why I think the timing of the hire was also an issue: we were left running for a chair with a limited budget.

 

[ahoelsken]

Given how conservative Tucker is with his decision making, I think he’s had conversations about the future with those guys. However, when the chips were down, UGA’s money spoke too loudly. That’s why I think the timing of the hire was also an issue: we were left running for a chair with a limited budget.

Yeah-I'd be shocked if Summers isn't here or demoted going into 2020. I'd have no problem with a makeover on that side of the ball. Johnson? Who knows.

 

[b3buffs]

Yeah-I'd be shocked if Summers isn't here or demoted going into 2020. I'd have no problem with a makeover on that side of the ball. Johnson? Who knows.

I have not had too much of an issue with offense other than penalties killing drives and the decision making of Montez. I wish we could put a shock collar on him to train him to stop rolling right and throwing the ball away at the first sign of pressure. Game management was an issue with USC and I think Johnson just tried to get in a passing shootout with USC. After all, when was the last time the team had a 10 point lead on a decent opponent with considerable time remaining? Those are experience points he gained from going through that.

Defense needs help, but they stunk coming into the season. Add multiple injuries to an already underperforming unit and you have a disaster. I'm willing to give this staff some time to get decent and healthy players in before calling for the heads to roll.

 

[SeanMSan]

Coming into this season, I was pumped to see Landman go ballistic all over the second level of defense...blowing up plays, etc. That first defensive series against CSU, I was like “WTF is this?!?!?!” Then, it just kept happening. No Mustafa getting in behind the o-line...Taylor looking lost. Onu was the saving grace for this season early in the year. If Landman isn’t in zone coverage he is usually the one making a tackle. Taylor has had more of a nose for the ball in the second half of the season.

It’s just a completely different defensive execution than anticipated. Especially with HCMT being a defensive minded coach and seeing what the top returning players did last year for the first five games.

I do see some bright flashes in the secondary with Trujillo, Luckett, and Perry. I think Sami will only get bigger, stronger, and better experienced on the line. Just need a Gilbert-type on the edges to contain and/or search and destroy out there.

 

[GuySmiley]

I don't think MT is going to make any snap decisions on OC, DC or Chiv. I think he will keep all three. CU needs to recruit and unless they are going to pay bank $$$$$$$$ for a coordinator; who can bring recruits with him. I think we need to ride this out through next season. This season is a disappointment, but it is mostly the losing streak and surprise win at ASU that gave some false hope.

During PAC12 play, the coaching has left some to be desired, especially UoA, and SC to an extent. They looked brilliant early with the 2nd half adjustments, but I think PAC12 play is a different animal. I don't think these guys went from great to s*** bad in the span of a month.

I had to remind myself that this is year 1 in the PAC for practically all the staff, so they have not coached against or seen any of these teams first-hand. There is a learning curve there. Much of the offense has required excellent QB play, which has just been lacking, although CU has shots to win AF, UoA, and USC. Three factors are at play: (1) CU is still installing new schemes, playing young players, (2) hurt by injuries (but all teams are)--including our game breaker; and (3) now facing more talented teams they have not prepared for in the past or seen live. I think it is just a combination and a year 1 staff.

For the offense, I do think there is a bit of an internal struggle between Johnson and Chiv. Johnson has proved CU can run the ball more consistently, which is better than in the past 10 years. I think there is a log-jam at WR, so Chiv is advocating getting all of his guys enough targets. I don't blame Chiv because that is where the teams talent lies on paper and with a 5th yr senior QB that is logical. Having Viska hurt has not helped, as he can sort of dictate the pre-snap field some-- also it leaves CU sort of scheme-less. Purcell getting hurt has set the Oline back, we need some Guards. With Viska out, SM has to play lights out, and then it might not be enough given the new defensive install.

In re-watching the UCLA game, SM just appears to be playing dinged. I think SM is a good QB but he got dinged during the AFA game and definitely against USC. The ASU performance was an answered prayer. Sure there are dropped passes, but lately the short and intermediate throws have been behind or led too far. KD Nixon was led too much on a touchdown pass. During the whole UCLA game the ball looked like it was coming out funny on almost every throw.

Also, I have no clue what CU is doing with the TE position. Sure Brady Russel is a fan favorite, but he is sort of featured pre-snap on every play. When Viska was out and they went 4 wide, Russel was wide or played slot. On the play he stayed home to block, SM was sacked.

On SM's bad interception, the LB jumped the route on Tony Brown, but Russel was the inside guy from the slot and they really ignored him given his lack of speed or break in the zone coverage. He would have been SM's 4th option for the play design. BR does not run precise routes and comes back too far as a safety valve; then too slow to break a tackle. If they are going 4 wide w/o Viska, don't you put Arias in as a big slot receiver (I'd give him a 75% chance of getting open against a LB? Or even Bish, as he can run or block. With all the said, Brady did have a nice catch and run on the 1st scoring drive. I just do not understand BR being a huge part of the overall scheme and in on every play. I think Harris may be hurt or in the dog house. Although we ran the ball well, we have not seen much of the 2 TE package the past month. With Viska hurt, I would think they would use that more.

On a good note, did any of you catch the Oregon at USC game?? After the1st quarter SC got completely man-handled. USC and Slovis played out of their mind in the 1st quarter, yet I could tell even ahead 10-0 that they were out athleted at every position. It was just a matter of time. In hindsight, CU competed pretty good against Oregon on the road. CU was a bobbled touchdown catch from going into the locker room within a score.

As I see this season winding down, I think MT is going to play for next year somewhat, and I do think that he and his staff can turn it around.

 

[GuySmiley]

I have not had too much of an issue with offense other than penalties killing drives and the decision making of Montez. I wish we could put a shock collar on him to train him to stop rolling right and throwing the ball away at the first sign of pressure. Game management was an issue with USC and I think Johnson just tried to get in a passing shootout with USC. After all, when was the last time the team had a 10 point lead on a decent opponent with considerable time remaining? Those are experience points he gained from going through that.

Defense needs help, but they stunk coming into the season. Add multiple injuries to an already underperforming unit and you have a disaster. I'm willing to give this staff some time to get decent and healthy players in before calling for the heads to roll.

I thought the defense played pretty well against UCLA. However, it is not good when your senior CB gets roasted by a former walk on. The kid was like 5'8." They stopped drives and had a nice interception. Although UCLA had decent rushing yards, CU was pretty stout on some drives. Had the offense converted, it may have been a different story. The learning curve in this new defense has been steep, but I have seen improvement with the following observations:

1. Landman has really adjusted well since the 1st three games. He is moving so much better.
2. Akil Jones looks pretty solid most of the time, his reads are better, tackles good...
3. Luckett and Trujillo have looked good given their inexperience.
4. Rackstraw stepped up and can improve more.
5. The DLine is competing, although we need some recruits and more experience in there.
6. Davion Taylor has been up and down, but adjusted well to being the only true outside LB on the roster. He will be tough to replace.
7. Perry played well and will be a good player, especially if they can move him back to safety. But he is good at Star.
8. CU would be nowhere without Onu, who has played to his abilities, except that he is nowhere close to an Evan Worthington.
9. Carson Wells had a nice interception, I think the first LB interception in coverage!! He looks like he is adjusting better.
10. Sami and Lang look solid, but just young.

Your observation that speed with size at OLB is a crucial need for this defense-- both as a pass rusher and a decent cover player. Chad Brown? Jordan Dizon (he was in ILB, but ran like an OLB)? Also, another talented safety will help. Maddox left, but he was not the answer for next year anyways.

 

[patebuff]

People want Chev gone?

 

[GuySmiley]

People want Chev gone?

No, I don't think anyone wants him gone that I know of. He is the best recruiter and Assistant Head Coach. It is just friction in the offense generally. I'd imagine Chiv and Johnson go back and forth over the headset on plays, packages, etc...