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Coach Mac v. Coach Hawk - parallels from their first three seasons

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by MontanaBuff, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. MontanaBuff

    MontanaBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Greetings, Buffs fans, from CU at the Game.

    There are tough losses, and then there are tough losses. The 40-31 defeat at the hands of Nebraska will be remembered for some time. Not only did the Buffs lose in ignoble fashion - on a Nebraska school-record 57-yard field goal with less than two minutes to play - but the loss will keep Colorado home for the holidays.

    There is a complete wrap-up of the game posted on the website, including stats and locker room quotes. If that sounds about as appetizing as a third day of turkey, I offer you the following essay:

    "Coach Mac v. Coach Hawk" takes a look at the programs each coach inherited, then follows the parallels for each coach as they posted two-win seasons in their first campaigns, then seasons of improvement, followed by seasons of disappointment.

    In Coach Mac’s fourth season, the program shifted, taking the Buffs on a path which culminated in a national championship. Will the same hold true for Buffs in Coach Hawk’s fourth season? We’ll take a look.

    Please note: CU at the Game will not be going into hibernation until August, 2009. Far from it. There will be recruiting updates as warranted by events (all the more reason to let your CU friends know they should send me an email and get on the update list). ALSO, coming in a few weeks will be an addition to the website - an interactive element (think about your favorite CU story - one which you are willing to share) which I believe you will not only enjoy, but will wish to be an active participant!

    Hang in there, Buff fans! www.cuatthegame.com

    Go Buffs!
     
  2. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Coach Mac inherited absolutely nothing when he took over. There wasn't even a cupboard. :smile2: At least Hawk had something(Dizon, TWheat, Walters, Charles).
     
  3. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    :yeahthat:

    Mac had less than nothing. He not only didn't have any talent, but he didn't have any administration support or fan support. His facilities were crap, too. CU was seriously on the verge of scrapping the football program completely. I think Hawk had a few more tools to work with when he came in.
     
  4. RalphieMalph

    RalphieMalph Well-Known Member

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    McCartney had the advantage of working in an era when every recruiting venue hadn't been exhausted. There aren't any Darian Hagans just lying around anymore... well, they're still around, but they're being recruited by 60 or 70 schools instead of 2 or 3.
     
  5. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I dispute that. I think its much easier to win right now then it was 20 some years ago.. Recruiting limits (85 ships) has vastly spread the talent around.. A few recruiting classes and you can win big just about anywhere if you have good coaching.


    And as bad as Barnett was at the end, he did leave some players for Hawk. I think its difficult to compare the two..
     
  6. Skidmark

    Skidmark Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    Although there was nice wood paneling in the coach's office. :eviltongue::huh:
     
  7. Buffocrat

    Buffocrat Member

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    I agree it's difficult to compare the two. The eras are so different, that it's hard to use McCartney as a benchmark as to how one should progress.

    It's probably the same issue that KSU has in dealing with coaches in the post Snyder era. He found a system that worked for him and he was able to pull some good Juco talent and use it successfully. But now times have changed and almost every school is looking at the Jucos for the best. So now every coach that KSU brings in has the immense expectations to match or better Snyder and all the pressure that comes with it, and but a more competitive playing field.
     
  8. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    just guessing here (what else can we do?) but i would imagine that BM would have a much tougher time establishing the program today given the state of the program at that time, than he did at that time with the way recruiting is today. now, once he was able to get recruiting going and the program in general, i would put him up there with anyone out there today in his ability to recruit. if i remember correctly, we had tommy frazier but BM wanting to go with a passing attack lost him for us. i hate to think about what might have been.....
     
  9. RalphieMalph

    RalphieMalph Well-Known Member

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    Weren't Tommy and Kordell a part of the same recruiting class? I had always heard that Kordell's being at CU was the reason Tommy ended up with the Nubs.
     
  10. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

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    I think both coaches have had to deal with unique and very difficult challenges. While Mac had to deal with a completely bare cupboard and a mentality of losing. Hawk has had to deal with a pretty bare cupboard, and rebuilding the image and recruiting base that Colorado lost due to the "scandal". I think we take for granted how well Hawkins has rebuilt the image and perception(unfair I know) of Colorado football.
     
  11. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Not Kordell. It was Koy.
     
  12. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Koy and Frazier were in the same recruiting cycle. Both were true freshman in 92..
     
  13. RalphieMalph

    RalphieMalph Well-Known Member

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    So what was the full situation, then? Koy committed first, then Frazier moved on to NU? Did McCartney encourage him to come to CU or to seek out pastures with more playing time?
     
  14. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    i had the year wrong but it had to do with BM wanting to go more to a passing attack rather than an option oriented attack that led tommie to knu.

    also, in that year of recruiting, word is that if Paul Shoemaker from Longmont High had committed to CU, BM would have droppped KD. PS, being a morman, committed to BYU, did his RS frosh year, went on a mission and never did crap at BYU.

    i was in the same class as Paul. i was on the same team at Longmont high. that kid never lost a ball game until college. i know the guy personally and i have not one bad thing to say about the guy. CU got the better deal with KD.
     
  15. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    McCartney didn't do **** until the NCAA dropped the hammer on OSU and OU.
     
  16. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    what year did that go down and in what year did BM bring in players like mark hatcher, anthony witherspoon, sal anuese (sp?), eric koch (sp?), marc walters, OC oliver ect among others?

    im thinking he did do **** before that went down. i think OU was damn good in the mid 80's before any of that **** went down.

    oops....
     
  17. Buttermaker

    Buttermaker Active Member

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    Yep, both OU and OSU got nailed after the 1988 season. That was the final part of Mac's plan. I wonder if Hawk has any dirt on Pinkel or Planet Mangino?
     
  18. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    after the 88 season? would we then not be talking approaching the '89 season?

    so players like DH, AW, KM, EB, MP, JJF, ect were all already at CU?

    so, sorry again, Lt. Col. keep digging.
     
  19. Timbuff10

    Timbuff10 Member

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    No program can stay up for ever. Texas seems to have the most luck with that as of late. They are totally due for some down years which tend to show up when you least expect them. OU is about there too.

    On the flip side, I want to say that no program can stay down for ever either, but I think Baylor and ISU will always suck. Things come in cycles, CU will rise again and things are set up very well for that to happen over the next 2-3 years and beyond if the staff can keep bringing in similar types of recruits that came last year.

    The only worry I have, is Hawk must make some sort of bowl game next year. Anything short of a bowl game next year and I am afraid that may be his last year at CU.

    As I said though, things come in cycles. For every year we flirt with a BCS game we will probably have a season like the past few. So by my calculations we are due baby and it is time to kick some ass next year!
     
  20. 77buff

    77buff Well-Known Member

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    Uh, do you recall some off field problems Hawkins had prior to the start of this season?
    Sugar_Coating_Machine1.jpg
     
  21. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    And those problems were handled appropriately and with a high-degree of transparency. I don't expect all of our kids to be saints, but I do expect them to be held accountable for their actions.
     
  22. 77buff

    77buff Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you, every program has it's discipline problems. CU is no exception. One of the reasons you go to college is to make mistakes, which you learn from so you don't make the same ones when your'e 30 or 40.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  23. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    I'm making the same mistakes.:sad1:
     

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