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CU fans need a reality check on a coaching change

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by DBT, Nov 11, 2009.

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  1. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Maybe firing Hawkins is the way to go, maybe not. However, if we do, indeed, fire him, finding a successful replacement will be a crapshoot.

    First, the salary we pay our head guy and the assistants is middle to bottom of the conference. And Boulder probably has the highest cost of living in the conference. If we want a big time guy, we'll have to pay big time salary. With two buyouts on the ledger, I don't see that happening.

    Second, whether you people want to aknowledge it or not, CU has tougher academic issues for a recruiter to deal with than any school in the Conference with Baylor maybe being an exception. We have almost a closed window on academic exceptions.

    Third, the competition for recruits in Texas and California, historically our hot beds, has really gotten stiff. We have a much more difficult time recruiting those places. CU has to recruit on a national basis, unlike the Texas schools and OU.

    If CU wants to be a contender in athletics, the CU administration needs to take a long, hard look at how they want to do business. Do we want a mediocre athletic program with high academic standards, or are we willing to bring in more at risk kids who will upgrade our athletic programs? Of course, the hope there would be that you can help them succeed in academics as well.

    With all those factors, we are not going to attract a nationally prominent coach. We will have to do what we did with Bill and bring in an up and coming coordinator who is hungry to get a shot at the big time. And that, my friends, is a crap shoot every bit as much as keeping Hawkins is a crap shoot.
     
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  2. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    I believe Hawkins gets year 5.

    Not so sure about the assistants.

    And because he will be here, I'm going to support his efforts. The reality is, he is CU's coach. Make the best of it. He could still pull out some surprises.
     
  3. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    You already said all of this about 50 times in a lot of other threads.
     
  4. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    FY
     
  5. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    The last 4 years has been crap, what is their to lose? So basically, this week you want to keep hawk because he has bake sales for the community and will turn a blind eye to his win/loss record knowing the program will continue to die and lose fans and $$$$ under his watch.

    So because it's a crapshoot, we should stay stuck in cow**** with hawk because he's a real swell guy.

    The academic excuse is just that, an excuse.

    You must have hated macs teams with all those mean and bad players :rolleyes:
     
  6. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Hey, you guys have said your peace way the **** a lot more than I have. So, there's no quota on the rip Hawkins/change coaches posts, but I have a limit on my point of view? OK. Am I supposed to go sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut? The fact is, a lot of you think we are going to be able to fire Hawkins and bring in Knute Rockne or something.
     
  7. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Thank you for this fresh, insightful analysis.

    As far as your point about Texas, give me a ****ing break. This staff has simply failed to recruit the state adequately. Mizzou, Kansas, and NU have made a killing in that state recently.

    Jesus Christ, your apologizing "I'm not sure what to do with Dan Hawkins" threads are almost as annoying as the daily threads about Andre Simmons or how many wins Hawkins needs to keep his job. Soon enough your posts will surpass them.
     
  8. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    If you play the "victim", you usually are the " victim".

    You act like hawk IS Knute Rockne and we couldn't possibly find another head coach who can do better than 16-30 :lol:
     
  9. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    give it a rest, man.

    first of all, here's the primary difference: hawkins now has a demonstrated 4 year track record of utter failure. total and complete failure. unequivocal failure. i speak only of this staff's on the field performance, not their very fine work as upstanding representatives of the university in the community.

    you want to say a new guy is a risk? ok, sure. you betcha. let's see... we've got a choice between a proven commodity (TWO ROAD WINS IN FOUR YEARS, 4 losing seasons (probably), no bowl wins) and a chance at improvement and you are advocating we stick with known failure?

    you might want to re-think your cost/benefit analysis.

    based upon the proven performance metrics in front of our faces, the only way any reasonable person can make a case for keeping this guy is if he wins out.

    i get that there are lots of non-football factors at work. but, the program is the cash-driver for all other sports at CU. if it fails, all fail. you can't be penny-wise and pound-foolish. continued failure will lead to collapsing revenue which will lead to economic armageddon.
     
  10. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    You moderators have a conspiracy going against DBT, that's not nice....:lol:
     
  11. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I didn't say to keep Hawkins. You don't read very well, do you? If he gets fired, I'll support that 100%. But if we do, we are going to have to bring in a lesser known coach.
     
  12. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    No, you do not get it Liver. All CU fans expect national championships every single year. So we will never be happy, so we should just accept failure.:rolleyes:

    DBT, feel free to stop with the "I can't make up my mind" bull**** and just at least be honest. You want Hawkins to stay at least one more season.
     
  13. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    I read well but you're flip-flop posting on this same issue tends to burn out the eye sockets.

    Why a lesser known coach? We need a coach who doesn't like to lose, can recruit texas, is known for improving and developing players and can motivate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  14. SECOBuffsFan

    SECOBuffsFan Active Member

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    I think the only way they economically can get rid of Hawkins is if they line up someone like Bzdelick. Someone who is financially stable and could draw in the revenue with his ties to the area to help improve the program.

    Someone who has a mansion in Denver with a bowling alley.

    And Mike Shanahan probably isn't coming to coach in Boulder, so I think Hawkins stays.
     
  15. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

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    How is this a crapshoot? Hawk has a proven .333 record. That is a statistical fact, not a crapshoot. Hawk sucks! So consistently it is scary. Bringing in a hungry coordinator is exactly what I want to see. We can't get much worse. Check out Bo Pelini, Bob Stoops, Bill McCartney etc. I think coordinators are many times the better choice because they start with a clean slate and don't have their former career to compare with. The economics everybody seems to forget is that for once state law is in our favor. Any other program would be looking at a $6 million dollar buyout with assistant contracts included. We don't. So this is a lot cheaper than most places. Plus bringing in a new guy will re-energize the fanbase, ticket sales, national interest etc. So it will be for the good economically.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  16. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    :wow: You guys are assholes. That was'nt even the point of my post. I cannot even post anything that is half subjective without you ****ers thinking it is about me defending and wanting to keep Hawkins. I totally have a clear mind on the issue.
     
  17. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    :lol: So these excuses you make for not being able to get a "knute rockne" was well thought out?
     
  18. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Your points are mostly apologies for Dan Hawkins. The Texas recruiting argument is especially hilarious. Somehow you have convinced yourself that we cannot possibly recruit well in Texas while Kansas, NU, and Mizzou all have on a regular basis.
     
  19. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    If you guys don't want to read DBT's opinion, why don't you just ignore it?

    Serious question. When you respond, you are in the conversation by choice. So discuss, but why not civilly?

    That goes for you, too, DBT.
     
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  20. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

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    I have to agree with you on that one. There are usually hundreds of Div 1-A football prospects every year in both Texas and Cali each. There are only so many scholarships available for the UT's and USC's. There are plenty of fish in the pond if you can get a guy to bring them in.
     
  21. 77buff

    77buff Well-Known Member

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    I would like you to explain to me how GB won at Northwestern? Their academic standards are much higher than CU? So are programs like Stanford. Your logic sucks, because it's a risk to find a better coach, it's better to stick with one who has done nothing but fail on the job.:wow:
    Marry the ugliest, stupid girl you can find, because a good woman might turn you down.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  22. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    15-30. That’s all I can say. 15-30. Nowhere, not even a school that doesn't care about their football team keeps a coach who loses 2 games for every one they win.

    I've been saying the following even back when I was on the Hawkins bandwagon:

    Hawkins was brought in at a time when the administration’s immediate concern was simply to fix & clean up the program...they couldn't even be concerned about wins at that point due to the state of the program after the scandal and 70-3 blowout in the Big XII championship game vs. Texas.
    Hawkins has accomplished what he was hired for - the program is squeaky clean, in good standing, and now able to recruit and compete for a coach who wins games.

    Bohn extended Hawkins after the Bama bowl game and sick recruiting class assuming Hawkins was not just the guy to clean up the program, but also the guy who could start winning games. Turns out he was wrong. We were all wrong about that one.

    Bohn has made clear what his expectations of the program are, and they're not very lofty. All he expects is the Buffs to be in the top half of the Big XII and bowl eligible every year (and that's a direct quote).

    What does that mean? It means he's not looking to be in the national championship/BCS picture (other than maybe a fluke season here or there), therefore, we're not talking about paying a coach Saban-type money here...we're talking about winning 6-8 games a year. We don't need Urban Meyer to do that...heck, Gary Barnett was doing that. So it’s ok that we can only pay a coach middle of the Big XII $’s if we’re only asking him to win middle of the Big XII games…get it?

    My point being that Bohn's expectations (while I find them disappointing for how low they are), they fit in with what his limitations are in terms of $, academic limitations and location. We're going to be the Wisconsin of the Big XII (and maybe the Oregon in the years that we overachieve). What Juicebox has made us at this point is the Indiana of the Big XII, and for that, he should be fired.

    DBT, after that explanation, are you really telling me that it's unrealistic for me to expect Colorado's flagship team to not win at least 6 games every year?
     
  23. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    OK, let me try to explain. All I was trying to say is that, because of the unique difficulties at CU, including finances, academics, and geography, we will most likely have to hire a promising offensive or defensive coordinator type of guy who has yet to prove himself as a head coach. In know way was I trying to defend Dan Hawkins.

    I meant this topic to be about what to expect in hiring a new coach, not about whether or not to keep the current one. The thing is, now, anytime I post anything syko, boulder buff, 96 buff and the like almost automatically go after me. I'm getting kind of sick of it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  24. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    Which will lead to one of two end results;

    1. The athletic department will be funded directly by your income tax dollars.
    2. The university will drop athletics.
     
  25. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I give you **** because everyone knows where you stand by now. How many times are we going to read the same post? Weekly? Daily?

    I have never been more ready for a CU football season to end.
     
  26. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    No need to go all Cole Hammels on us...:smile2:
     
  27. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Why can't we hire a proven OC or DC? Why not a proven head coach? Hawk wasn't exactly a big name coach. CU needs to decide if they want to succeed in football or not. If we're going to do this we need to go all out and start doing anything we can to have a winning program. No, I don't mean 50 jucos or bringing in 15 bad apples.
     
  28. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    State of Colorado is hurting right now financially. Obviously we won't get any general fund increase for football.


    Ritter cuts heavily from higher ed
    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13664580



    in part, "...Ritter plans to cut $145 million in general-fund revenue from colleges and universities, which comes on top of an $80.9 million cut made earlier this year. "

    THAT is why Bohn and the others know the timing is wrong to drop $3 million on buying out a coach when state schools are getting their budgets trimmed in a seriously, painful way. It would turn a lot of people off about CU and donations. It simply looks wasteful to drop $3 mill on a coaching change, when students are dropping out because they can't afford it and programs are cut because they can't be funded.
     
  29. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    And everyone knows where you stand but its OK for you to keep posting the same ****? You make me laugh. Hypocrite.
     
  30. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    During difficult economic times like these, it's never easy to spend big money, that's for sure. Nonetheless, the cliché but applicable saying goes, you've got to spend money to make money. In this case, since the state is cutting the $ to CU, CU will have to make up for it, or make cuts to live without it. They have the option in investing in the football program, which if even moderately successful, could actually put money back into the school...let alone help the image of the school.
     
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