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CU not granting transfer requests until after spring ball - Discuss!

bigbang2 said:
I am actually surprised that a former College player hasn't sued the NCAA for unfairly benefiting from student athletes. The players take most of the risk, risking bodily harm for peanuts while the NCAA benefit in the billions. The same thing with the so called contract. They can drop you, and don't have to give a reason, while if you want to leave, your release can be delayed. I am a big fan of free market, but that is too one sided of a deal.
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There have been numerous lawsuits but they have been thrown out because judges have been unwilling to go beyond the veneer of the law. (The suitors were never granted standing) The NCAA is ostensibly a non-profit organization, but the reason for its (continued) existence is to allow vested interests to profit. The shaky legal underpinnings of this was examined by a former attorney general, and discussed on 60 minutes a year or two ago. He wrote a book; I forgot his name.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Worse, do you want someone there tying up a scholie that doesn't want to be there and isn't contributing?
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This is a digression, but I feel some responsibility to redress misleading info.

I appreciate your concern about the debt and the role of Defense spending, MiamiBuff, but your numbers don't seem to be accurate representations of the issues. I think by debt you mean deficit. Your numbers seem to be ignoring the time value of money. It is more meaningful to talk about the net present value of the debt and how that has changed through time. The total debt is worth approximately $75 trillion.

The debt has gone up over the past 10 years by roughly 7 trillion. The downturns in the economy in 2000 and 2008 had a big impact on this inflation and the decrease of tax revenues. So whatever you are trying to imply by comparing 2008 to 2012 is really muddled.
 
aeroxx said:
This is a digression, but I feel some responsibility to redress misleading info.

I appreciate your concern about the debt and the role of Defense spending, MiamiBuff, but your numbers don't seem to be accurate representations of the issues. I think by debt you mean deficit. Your numbers seem to be ignoring the time value of money. It is more meaningful to talk about the net present value of the debt and how that has changed through time. The total debt is worth approximately $75 trillion.

The debt has gone up over the past 10 years by roughly 7 trillion. The downturns in the economy in 2000 and 2008 had a big impact on this inflation and the decrease of tax revenues. So whatever you are trying to imply by comparing 2008 to 2012 is really muddled.
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Wrong forum bro.

Essentially the top line is how much defecit spending their was in the given year (borrowed after revenue)

The 2nd line is the entire cost of DOD including wars

The third line is the amount of defecit spending after defense

The point is that you could completely shut down DOD, park all the planes, tie up all the ships, cancel all the contracts, send every single soldier home, and you'd still need to cut close to 400 to 500 billion more a year to align revenue with spending.

But thats another discussion from this one, in another thread, in a different forum.
 
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BlackNGold said:
What you seem to forget, it is their decision to make. Not yours, not the coach and not Mike Bohn's. This is a free country and they have a right to make the decision - to screw them out of the opportunity is wrong.
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They can still make that decision. Nobody is stopping them from transferring. They're just delaying it for a few months. Honestly, I don't see the problem. Equating it to coaches who can come and go as they please isn't appropriate. Two different situations, IMO.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Worse, do you want someone there tying up a scholie that doesn't want to be there and isn't contributing?
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The scholie they're "tying up" will be available soon enough, if they really want to transfer.

Its not asking too much to have the kids stay through the Spring semester. They lose nothing except for a little time on another campus.
 
sackman said:
They can still make that decision. Nobody is stopping them from transferring. They're just delaying it for a few months. Honestly, I don't see the problem. Equating it to coaches who can come and go as they please isn't appropriate. Two different situations, IMO.
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Actually, they can transfer tomorrow. CU can't stop that. It's a question of a RELEASE.

The RELEASE essentially opens up their recruitment and makes them a free agent. They can be recruited at that point (meaning they can take visits, etc) and they can go on scholarship immediately.

Without said RELEASE, the kids are still free to transfer but must pay their own way for a year. That is obviously prohibitive for most kids, but there is no limitation in terms of transferring to a Juco.

For kids who just played their true freshman years (which is I think close to 100% of the kids considering leaving btw), this can be a good option. If they are that dead set on leaving, they could go to a Juco in January, play in the fall and then have 3 to play 2 as a free agent come this time next year. They would not have missed out on any football (since they have to sit out next fall at a D1 school anyway - so why not play Juco and showcase your talent).

Or they can wait until after spring ball and get a full release and go somewhere. If a school is really interested in them and there is a good fit, they can hold a spot. Spots become available over the summer ALL THE TIME.

Lastly, Colorado is not unique in taking this stance. It is now common to not grant immediate transfers after a coaching change (or "home-sickness" - commonly seen as a temporary condition). Many schools just say no - end of story. If you have a special situation like an ailing parent, that is different.

Our AD has only asked for them to give it a semester. Is it too much to ask to honor one full year at the school that brought you here? NO. It is neither inhumane nor uncommon.
 
exxon said:
Why do we ask more of our student-athletes, than we do of our HC's?

If they want to leave then give them their full release.
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wrong question. The question is when we should give them a full release, not if.
 
exxon said:
Why do we ask more of our student-athletes, than we do of our HC's?

If they want to leave then give them their full release.
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I agree. Let the players leave early after they pay the buy out.
 
DBT said:
I agree. Let the players leave early after they pay the buy out.
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I thought about going with a snarky response along these lines, but avoided it in the hopes of DBT filling in the void. DBT, glad I could count on you!
 
aeroxx said:
This is a digression, but I feel some responsibility to redress misleading info.

I appreciate your concern about the debt and the role of Defense spending, MiamiBuff, but your numbers don't seem to be accurate representations of the issues. I think by debt you mean deficit. Your numbers seem to be ignoring the time value of money. It is more meaningful to talk about the net present value of the debt and how that has changed through time. The total debt is worth approximately $75 trillion.

The debt has gone up over the past 10 years by roughly 7 trillion. The downturns in the economy in 2000 and 2008 had a big impact on this inflation and the decrease of tax revenues. So whatever you are trying to imply by comparing 2008 to 2012 is really muddled.
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Epic threadjack...well done.
 
exxon said:
Why do we ask more of our student-athletes, than we do of our HC's?

If they want to leave then give them their full release.
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Scholarships are not revoked when a kid shows up and he can't play as well as coaches anticipated (Scholarship are in fact 1 year contracts, but they are always honored for 4 years unless there are off-field issues). You've already seen that MacIntyre is honoring remaining eligibility to Grossnickel, Darden and Thornton (after Embree told them no thanks) by committing to 5th years for guys who have not contributed much or anything.

Two way street. Much different than hiring an employee so there's no point to your comparison.
 
BlackNGold said:
Do not like it. People always say that coaches get to leave all the time why not players. Now that the shoe is on the other foot it is okay. There are windows of opportunity and a lot of those windows will close if a player is not allowed to transfer now before signing day so a school can give them a slot. If it was me and I wanted to transfer I would be making a lot of noise. I do not want anyone to transfer but I do not think this is the way to do it. If someone wants to transfer the coach needs to sit down and sell them on not doing so. I think this indicates that there may be more transfer request than we are aware of on the team.
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Disagree. Coaches have to buy out their remaining contract per the terms of the contract. Players have a contract too; TunaMac set the buyout terms as after spring practice. I have no issue at all with this,
 
bigbang2 said:
But scholarships or opportunities available now, may not be available in a few months after spring ball.
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Hot news flash! LIFE IS NOT FAIR!! These kids made a commitment to CU and return the university made a commitment for one year with them. Their commitment is to CU not Jon Embree or some other assistant coach. Asking them to wait until after spring ball to request a release is not unusual and not excessive. I agree 100% with Bohn. When JE was the head coach he used to talk about teaching the players lessons in life.
Life lessons being taught are not always fair.
 
buffalocu81 said:
Hot news flash! LIFE IS NOT FAIR!! These kids made a commitment to CU and return the university made a commitment for one year with them. Their commitment is to CU not Jon Embree or some other assistant coach. Asking them to wait until after spring ball to request a release is not unusual and not excessive. I agree 100% with Bohn. When JE was the head coach he used to talk about teaching the players lessons in life.
Life lessons being taught are not always fair.
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Good luck with that. BTW some players wanted to transfer before Embree was fired.
 
bigbang2 said:
Good luck with that. BTW some players wanted to transfer before Embree was fired.
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The point is that things have now changed. The young men owe it to the school, the new staff, and themselves to assess the new staff before making a decision. The university has invested a great deal in these guys.
 
I've come around on this, and don't see how this is some horrific punishment to these kids. Try it out for a couple months and see if you still feel the same way, or if you're determined to leave then go pay your way somewhere for a year like the other 99% of students.

If it were up to me I'd withhold a release from any student-athlete if it negatively impacted our APR. If they were eligible to leave with good standing, I'd talk to their parents and if the whole family felt strongly the kid needed a fresh start, I'd let him go.
 
Anyone can transfer anytime they want. What they can't do is take the scholarship with them unless they get a release from the AD. This is nothing new. At the start of the season KU was not releasing Berglund. Other coaches have restricted which teams players can go to.

I have no problems with CU/Bohn saying we will not grant any releases until spring. Wanting the existing players to stick it out, meet the new coaches etc is one reason. The second reason is CU/Bohn looking out for CU's APR. Finish the year, make sure you are in good academic standing and if you still want to leave, fine, good luck.
 
If a kid leaves without a release, doesn't he have to sit out two years? Either that or go "DII," whatever they call it now.
 
Don't see any issue with this. Schools often say that scholarships are a year-to-year proposition, and I would think that a "year" means a "year." Most of these kids don't arrive until late July/August, so I would say they're lucky that CU is resetting the calendar earlier in the year. If a kid really wants to transfer, he'll be able to find a situation that works for him.

What these kids should know, however, is that it's unlikely that they're going to see the same level of recruitment this go around then when they were in HS, for multiple reasons.
 
Every single one of these kids signed his name on a contract. The LOI doesn't say "I will play for a coach", it says "I will attend the University of Colorado." Also, this move isn't just about the kids who may be considering a transfer; it's also about the other 80%-90% of the locker room. When the malcontents start running their mouths, the true leaders on this team will make themselves known, not just to their new coaches but also to their teammates. You need turmoil and strife. I hope there are several fights in the locker room. It's time for the men to Buffalo Up! And let the children leave.
 
Do we have a compiled list of kids who are potentially transferring? I have heard Crawley and GT's names dropped the most. Any others looking to move on?
 
o_robbie said:
Do we have a compiled list of kids who are potentially transferring? I have heard Crawley and GT's names dropped the most. Any others looking to move on?
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Personally, I don't think we should speculate here.
 
If we lose any transfers this year, I will chalk up as a tradeoff for not having to live through another minute of the Embree experiment. I honestly don't care if the entire class transfers - it can't get any worse than it was last year with them here.
 
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