Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by DBT, Nov 10, 2011.
Just lots of things.
Penn State is a much better program than we ever were. Not sure its a fair comparison.
It will depend on who they hire and whether he can hit the ground running recruiting.
The local State College Paper and College Paper both called for Joe Pa resignation. Not sure how you think they were on Joe Pa's side.
I see where you are coming from, but this is a weird situation. JoePa because was old, senile and didn't care was taking down a salary of only $1 mm per year. To hire a top flight HC you need about $3 mm per year. I don't know how the political fallout at PSU will land, but I know that at Berkeley if 1/10th this shizzat came down, the AD would lack the political backing to triple the salary paid to the HC.
And then there's the question of the civil lawsuits. There are rumors of up to 17 victims now in contact with the authorities. That number will only increase once it becomes clear that the victims will be capable of drawing down several million dollars apiece in civil damages. Total civil damages could easily surpass $100mm and might even reach $200mm. Does PSU pick that up out of their general fund, or is there enough political fallout that the Athletic Department has to eat it all? Those are big numbers, even for PSU Athletics.
And then there are the recruits. I don't follow PSU recruiting, but you gotta figure there is heavy fallout for at least this year's recruiting class, despite JoePa's lack of personal involvement in recruiting. The big question is really how will 2013 recruits think about PSU. It's an open question.
Problem for PSU is this involves crimes against children. It also isn't over in terms of details being smeared all over the media.
Headlines dealing with bad behavior are one thing, even Miami with hookers and blow can be forgiven by a big part of the population. These headlines are going to involve raping little boys.
Nobody except the most ardent supporters can forgive this stuff. On the other hand even people who normally wouldn't care will be ardent that punishment must be dealt out.
The biggest issue is going to be the perception that football ran the university instead of the university running football. The backlash against athletics at PSU may make the sanctions against Barnetts program look like less than a slap on the wrist. It is very possible that the powers that be are going to do everything they can to show everyone that academics run the university, not football, and to make that point very visible.
Probly true. Mostly, the news guys went after him. But I have that one reporter in my head who was reaming the guy in the presser.
Maybe I feel this way because, since the PSU deal did not involve recruiting, there were apparently no NCAA violations, and they are quickly cleaning house, it won't affect them much.
I think that's what started their problems...
Ask ESPN. They have the power to kill PSU if they want to.
I think if this scandal gets bigger (like Mark Madden alleged) than it could have a much deeper impact on not only the football program but the whole school.
:lol: Saw that coming. Didn't edit fast enough for your sharp eye. I blame it on Apple! Damned iPod. (Notice if you type an Apple product name on an Apple product, the product you are typing on properly auto corrects the product name you are typing? I type "i-p-o-d" and it corrects to iPod.)
This is the big question at this time. Rarely in situations like this are all the ugly details out this early in the process. Penn State is a state school and if this gets any uglier the people in the statehouse could decide that to protect the image of the school, the state, and to avoid personal political fallout the only answer is to take control over elements of the school that traditionally are independant. Even if they don't have direct legislative authority they have control over funds.
This will be interesting to watch and compare.
It should...did you see the interviews last night with students? God help us all....
I think this could legitimately end Penn State football. One of the (to date) whispered rumors, is that Sandusky specifically targeted African American youths for his crimes. If this is true (and I stress that it is still very much an if), then do not forget that recruiting, even if legal and in accordance with NCAA regs, is a dirty business. Every last single recruit for at LEAST the next five years will be hearing "You know he only raped black kids in those showers you saw." from every other school that might have an interest. Like it or not, that will cut out a SIGNIFICANT portion of your talent pool. It is unfortunate and abhorrent that other schools would do that, but they will, IF that rumor has any merit.
That aside, recruiting in general is going to take a serious nose dive over the next five years (minimum), as NO parent outside of Happy Valley specifically will want their child going to what is now widely and near universally perceived as a den of horror and filth. Add in the factors that a) sponsors are going to flee like nobody's business (Cars.com has already flown the coop) and b) there is about to be an astronomical amount of money paid out in the form of lawsuit findings/settlements, and you end up with sanctions the likes of which the NCAA could never dream of.
Neither the Administration of Penn St. nor the NCAA will have to sanction/punish Penn St. The rest of the known universe will do that for them.
This is the only the third layer of the onion at PSU. I suspect it will get much worse.
In regard to DBT's question, I'll pose this one. What comes to mind when you hear the name Woody Hayes? My mind sees him punching an opposing player on the sideline. Mentions of JoPa for years to come will be the shower rape of a child. Those types of things are not forgotten. If PSU recovers in a decade, I would be surprised. It's a sad story, I've admired the school. They are irrelevant now.
Nobody wants to be associated with is being alleged at Penn State. Even if it's not a rational response. For instance, if the coaching staff, and administration are gone, there is no reason NOT to attend...but still, if there are other options...
I think it will take a while for the tarnish to wear off. I expect at least a decade of challenges for Penn State's athletic programs.
Unless they move the school to montana, they'll be fine with the natural recruiting base they have.
Penn state hasn't had a different coach in almost 50 years. I could see anything happen. I can tell you they will go in at least a 10-15 year down period soon.
I tend to agree with Leash on this. Nobody wants to be associated with what happened there--there'll be a tarnish, that will take some time to wear away. And yes, they exist in a solid recruiting region, but it's a slippery slope. A new coach and the stigma of pedophilia (even though those responsible will be removed) will result in fewer wins, which will result in a less-respected program which will result in degraded recruiting.
My prediction: A decade of substandard football.
I think this type of issue is far and away bigger than anything else that's ever happened in collage sports. This is going to stick with Penn St. for many years to come and I just don't see them recovering from it any time soon.
People are willing to look past almost anything if it stands opposed to their deeply held beliefs and cultural identity. Nebraskas fans lined up to support Dr. Tom when he had a slimeball dragging a woman down the stairs by the hair. Miami fans are willing to excuse guns, blow, and hookers because they rationalize that it is just a bunch of college kids in Miami. Alabama fans are willing to ignore a "scout" being paid $100k to deliver a player, Notre Dame fans will glady ignore that Holtz left every prior school he was at on probation and the situation with Stonebreaker not to mention the more recent female "booster" who was sleeping with recruits and players.
People will rationalize that "These are just kids having fun." and "Shouldn't they get some of the benefit of the millions of dollars." and even "The girl(s) should have been smart enough not to hang around these guys." As hollow as these things sound when they are coming from other schools that we don't like we know that fans can convince themselves of almost anything in loyalty to their teams.
That all comes to a screeching halt when you are talking about disgusting crimes against children. Once the disbelief wears of and the PSU students sober up, there is no way that any rational person can come to a justification for ignoring any of the single incidents at PSU much less the extended enabling of the continued violation of innocent children coming from vulnerable backgrounds.
Even in light of all this there will be those who think that things can be fixed and they can go back to good times. On the balance though, this will get the attention of big chunks of the population who normally would not care about the PSU program one way or another. In their disgust and anger they will insist that blood be taken out of the program and even the strongest supporters will have a hard time finding any kind of justification to stop it.
As this continues to play out and the PSU community gets past the shock and continues to see more of what happened support for the program will continue to erode. It may be a long time before PSU football can even start to recover from this.
One thing mentioned in another thread earlier, that a lot of people seem to be missing, is that there won't be any "big payday" from civil actions against Pedo State. PSU is a state (i.e. gov't) institution. While the gov't is generally fine with private citizens suing each other for absurd amounts of money, they limit the civil liabilities in cases against the gov. I don't know what Penn's limit is, but it would not be surprising if it was in the $150-$250k range.
Civil cases against the individuals involved may be a different story. It then depends on how deep their pockets are (my guess is that Joe Pa is probably the only one with really significant personal net worth), and if they can claim they were acting in an "official capacity" at the time decisions were made. If they get the "official capacity" treatment, then all potential liability is shifted to the institution, which probably has very low statutory liability limits.
Where the real financial burden will be felt by PSU is not in any civil liability penalties, or even in lawyer fees, but it's going to be the cumulative effects of thousands of sponsors and donors reducing or completely eliminating their support. That's going to really, really hurt.
Good points. The list of people associated with Second Mile includes enough money to keep the lawyers interested and this will keep this in the news for a long time to come.
Didn't we pay Lisa Simpson something like 2 million?
You have on gold colored glasses. Your deal was a blip on the CFA screen compared to this. I don't we have any idea how bad this can get yet. This is the biggest college football story ever.
Something like it.
The other question for the lawyers here is what happens if someone can prove that one of the victims was transported across a state border prior to being raped. In this situation can they move the case to federal court thus bypassing the state liability limits and putting the case in a less state friendly venue?
Like on boardwalk empire but opposite.
This is what I think will happen. The new administration will have to feed the perception that the program is being sufficiently punished. The last thing that they will want is for the perception to be that there was any kind of preference shown to the program, and demonstrate that the AD reports to the administration, not the other way around. This could be worse than the death penalty and SMU.
I think they, PSU, will work at disassociating this scandal from the football program. Where, with us, there was a direct association. It was, and I remember these accusations, "CU used sex and drugs to lure recruits." Some idot "journalists" still say that. PSU will try, maybe unsuccessfully, to argue that these were individuals who either broke the law, made bad decisions, or were duped.
I haven't gotten the feeling from PSU and their faithful that they care about the fact that they developed a culture of winning at the cost of molesting children for at least 15 years and probably longer. This massive conspiracy should be enough to completely tear apart PSU. I hope it takes the entire school down. But it won't. They are only concerned with their school and their football team.
I think it depends on how it's handled. If psu (I just typed psu on my iPhone and auto correct wanted to put in "Osu" instead, what does that imply?) gets separation from this staff and can get a new staff that's significant, and do enough to get the media focused on the old staff instead of the institution and the new staff can win. This issue from a football stand point will pass quickly. Oh and erase the physical reminders too. If they handle it badly psu is f'd for a long time. Their efforts so far have been awful. Typing any post of length on an iPhone is a pain in the ass.
Separate names with a comma.