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Finally a well-reasoned media response to the cost-of-living stipend idea

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, May 25, 2011.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Kudos to Gene Wojciechowski.

    In the immortal word of Saturday Night Live's Seth Meyers: "Really?"

    Think about it: A college athletics power broker recently proposed an idea that actually helps the Division I scholarship players responsible for generating billions of dollars in revenue. But by the time the skeptics and cynics were done mangling the facts beyond recognition, the proposal needed reconstructive facial surgery.

    The power broker -- Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany -- suggested a plan that would bridge the growing financial gap between the value of a scholarship and the actual sticker price of going to school. That average estimated annual gap of about $3,000 would be given to the D-I player to help defray the costs of, say, transportation, clothing, laundry and pepperoni pizzas. It works out to a whopping $8.22 a day.

    Instead of getting a standing ovation for trying to improve the rust-coated system now in place, Delany was accused of grandstanding, of creating a play-for-pay scenario, and of attempting to deflect attention from the stench of Jim Tressel's violations landfill at Ohio State.

    Really?

    The logic behind some of the criticism makes Homer Simpson look like a Fulbright Scholar.


    Read more...

    :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
     
  2. TimmyDUBs

    TimmyDUBs Dirty haole Club Member

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    Good article. I like the logic. This makes the abliity of a recruit to go out of state much more reasonable, especially if they come from a lower economic class. I still think this will make it much more difficult to regulate tOSU-style corruption and giving students significantly more than the allotted amounts.
     
  3. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    $3,000 ANNUALLY??

    Is that what they are talking about?

    $250 a month per D-1 athlete?
     
  4. Del

    Del Member

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    Thought the article sucked and the more I think about it, the more I think its an added expense that is not needed for athletic depts. I'm sorry if I don't shed many tears for guys that already have a free education, meals, lodging and tons of free school schwag. The only thing I think they should add in is maybe two free plane tickets every year so guys can go home to their family but thats it.

    Fire away but you wont change my mind.
     
  5. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Merit scholars get between $500 and $2000 a year.
     
  6. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    CU paid me 16,500 a year to go to grad school for 4 years and a tuition/insurance waiver (about 1800 a month for 9 months; summer not paid). as a part of that, i also worked 20 hours a week as an RA (less than 20) or to be a TA (about 20) or teach outright (much more than 20). 9 hours of doc level coursework in the mix. i thought it was a helluva deal. however, EA sports is not making any vid games and there aren't any big, new TV deals about grad school. while i do feel that i do the "proper" work of the university insofar as it being an education institution and not a subset or revenue outpost of the male demographic for sports entertainment....i guess that's a qualitative difference. however, i was recruited by CU, USC, and Penn State (somewhat) for their programs.

    i can see the argument about a little pocket money; but the way it's likely to take shape is a leverage tool (as many have noted in this thread and others) for other political motives....and exacerbate the have-have not divide....but, blowing up the NCAA may not be so bad, i agree. i don't want to see college sports turn into AAA football but there's a lot of things i don't like that are inevitably going to happen...i'd like to defend the university presidents complaint about protecting the integrity of the scholar-athlete but that's as insincere as it gets given the way the BCS is justified v. a playoff system (too many games during the end of semester)....all the while saying nothing when conference championships are added in December and stretching the BCS one game a night farce out into the 2nd week in January...which stretches the season in the exact same way. so, they are REALLY protecting something else and happy to cash the checks to do so.

    additionally, say it's 250$ a month for example sake.....cost of living in Manhattan, KS is not the same as LA. so, USC's 250$ is nothing compared to Manhattan....where you can rent a house, buy a boat, some goats, and drink as much beer as allbuffs.com for half that.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  7. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    This "stipend" or "cost of living" thing is going to blow up huge. Who is going to oversee this program? It is already darn near impossible to patrol how much money players receive (Cam Newton, Reggie Bush, etc.) and now we are talking about actually making it the rules that players get more money.
     
  8. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I would not be opposed to that. Kid could decide to use $20 per week and stow away the $170.
     
  9. 14ers4me

    14ers4me Member

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    I haven't seen this link anywhere from The Ralphie Report, but this is classic South Park and fits in well w/ this thread. Scroll down a bit to the South Park feature. I've never linked from another website before so if this is considered spam or whatever then one of the mods can delete my post. I believe by giving TRR credit and linking I'm OK.

    http://www.ralphiereport.com/
     
  10. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Two sides to every issue.

    There are expenses involved in being a student that are not covered by what schools are allowed to give kids. For a kid coming out of a family that doesn't have anything extra to send him the ability to buy a pizza a couple times a month, pay for a haircut, buy a pair of socks, or get a card and some candy for his girl might be the difference between making it or not and the difference between taking what he knows is illegal money from a booster or not. Certainly not going to apply in all cases but it may make a difference in the success of student athletes and help take away the incentive to knowingly cheat which once started just gets easier and becomes a part of the culture.

    It would be a little hard to accurately keep track of it but these are educated people, I am sure they can figure something out. The issue of cost of living in various locations is a real one but when you go from nothing to something I don't think that will be a factor. Sure Ames or Manhatten are cheaper places to live but to get the cheaper prices you have to live there. Lots of people make lifestyle compromises to live in Boulder.

    The bigger issue is cost. Because of title IX you are not just talking about 3,000 a year for each football player, you are talking about 3,000 a year for every scholarship athlete on campus. Instead of roughly $285,000 a year you are talking about $2-3 million a year for a lot of schools. With schools already cutting sports this would be a major hit financially.
     
  11. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Supposedly the money would be paid by the conferences so all scholarship athletes attending member schools. At least that was the latest version of the idea. This would seem to satisfy your objection.
     
  12. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Yes, certainly the conference offices will be able to monitor all the money that is paid out to student athletes at all the various Universities better than the individual schools have been doing for the past fifty+ years.

    :sarcasm:
     
  13. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Your objection was on who is going to oversee it. I posted that it would be transparently handled by the conference, thereby not giving any school an advantage and making it easy to track the money (an issue with the private institutions that don't open their books).

    You want to enter a strawman that this program was somehow designed to reduce other forms of cheating. That's not the goal and was never mentioned by anyone who floated the idea. Yet you seem to feel that since it doesn't do this then the program is a bad idea. Frankly, that makes no sense. It sounds like you have simply decided you don't like this idea (for whatever reason, maybe because you're averse to change, maybe to be argumentative, maybe something else), but your stated objection is off base and now you're grasping.
     
  14. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I'm sold on that for sure as long as the players don't clamor for MORE.
     
  15. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    My biggest concern is what might evolve from this plan. If the Big 10 is giving out $3,000/Year, what will the Pac 12 be giving out? The SEC? So long as there isn't a significant financial advantage from one conference to the next, I'm on board. The problem is that a kid going to Stanford getting $3,000 is going to have more difficulties than a kid going to Purdue. It's a lot more expensive to buy gas, food, clothing, rent, etc. in Palo Alto than West Lafayette, In.
     
  16. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    Which you can plan on happening very few years.

    Honestly, I'm not sure why some of you WANT this to happen. It is Pandora's Box, leave it shut. These kids get all of their basic needs met plus education for zero dollars. Plus, they get an opportunity to train and audition for a potenial six or seven-figure income. So what if the University makes ends meet by putting them on TV? It's a fair deal for all involved right now. You start paying these guys, and it becomes more and more about money than heart, then everything we love about college football starts to unravel like professional sports has.
     
  17. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    I disagree. So long as the third string goalie on the women's soccer team is getting the same stipend as the starting quarterback, it's not a pay-for-play proposition. It's just addressing a problem that probably needs to be addressed. It's expensive to go to college, even if your college is paid for.
     
  18. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I think the governing body has to make it the same for all conferences and schools. That would eliminate the potential issue of conferences getting into bidding wars. As far as indexing cost-of-living, I just don't think it will happen. That's an existing issue that this program wouldn't fix. I'd guess, though, that it probably does as much or more to make it more attainable to live in Palo Alto than it does to make a kid feel like he could live high off the hog in Fayetteville.
     
  19. supahphish

    supahphish Member

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    Every year universities report to the federal government the actual cost of attendance for a full-time student. Under the proposals I have read, all the schools would do is provide a stipend to cover the difference between the real cost of attendance and the sum of tuition/student fees/housing/etc which is already covered under current athletic scholarships. I highly, highly doubt that schools/conferences would start "fudging" the numbers to try and gain some minuscule recruiting advantage. The numbers they give to the government affect their entire budget and much wider consequences in terms of the funding and support they receive, students eligibility for financial aid, etc.

    The idea that a university would try and cheat the system to get a couple of recruits in a way that would affect all of their 20,000+ students is ridiculous. You better believe that if the tuition/boarding at two schools is $20k but one reports the total cost of attendance as $24k and the other reports it as $32k, there are going to be red flags. This is aside from the fact that overreporting would hurt the university since it would discourage high school students from applying if they see such high numbers, in the long run reducing their enrollment, prestige, and competitiveness.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2011
  20. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    What about the fact that CU considers all student athletes to be out-of-state residents when it comes to tuition, whereas many other universities consider all student athletes to be in-state residents when it comes to tuition?
     
  21. FlatironsBuff

    FlatironsBuff Club Member Club Member

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    So in the example you just gave wouldn't that give West Lafayette, IN a small advantage? They have to set a number and stick with it regardless of area code. THe kids that want to go to a nicer school in a nicer area can do so. THey get the same money. If it doesn't go as far, as least they have something. So be it. I think a solid number for every school if fine. If a school can afford it, great, if they can't then it hurts thier recruiting. I would feel that for many kids who 'cheat' now to have something in thier pockets, that isn't a huge amount, but something to help out immensely.
     
  22. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    is this true? can it be documented?
     
  23. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Didn't you ever wonder how CU has the minimum number of varsity sports yet we had the highest expense for scholarships out of all Big 12 programs?

    It's this type of thing that drives my opinion that the AD needs to pay back its loans and get as independent from the university budgeting and politics as possible. Also, why I don't give any credence to those who try to argue that the AD is somehow benefiting from state tax dollars. That recent tuition increase? It meant that the AD had to come up with a ton more money for scholarships this year while we're caught between conferences and things are tight.
     
  24. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I have heard as much as well.
     
  25. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    the "wondering" isn't proof. that seems like the kind of thing that would easily be confirmed by the Bursar. that schollies count as out of state paid tuition.

    i'm not saying it isn't true, but i find a bit of exceptionalism about CU's "academic" requirements and admission is generally overstated and used as a "they are out to get us" mentality. faculty, boulder activists who hate black people and cu football, feminazis, boulder popo....some kind of coordinated faction that is single-minded to bring down CU football. it doesn't exist.

    in other college towns, the free peoples love the college athletes....the popo look the other way...donors hand out free money...the faculty are on the 50 yard line cheering on the home team and handing out free grades...in Boulder, our upstanding scholar-athletes are unfairly crucified.

    when our guys are in the media about rape or assault....they are unfairly treated. when other teams guys are doing the same....it proves "they" are a win at all costs program"...and loops back into our fascination with how real CU is as an "academics" institution.

    i teach at CU. any moron can make a C at CU. if you show up for class, turn things in on time, it's easy. students think they "get over"....but it's pretty easy days.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2011
  26. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I don't think that the issue is that CU charges out-of-state tuition for in-state scholarship athletes. That's an incorrect myth.

    The issue is that other universities support their athletic departments by allowing them to pay all scholarships at the in-state rate.

    It probably also hurts that so many of our athletes come from out-of-state as compared to the Texas schools, for example.

    Edit: Found a link to the Buff Club scholarship donor program: http://466650.cache1.evolutionhosting.com/wp-content/themes/cufoundation/images/brochures/Buff_Club_Scholarship.pdf

    Hopefully that puts the myth part to rest.
     
  27. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    the Texas schools is not really a fair comparison. Texas is the biggest state in the union that isn't alaska that lets you play and practice football in fall and spring....and the exception doesn't prove the rule.

    UT and ATM have how many players from out of "state"? some, but not many.
     
  28. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    OK. Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State and Missouri then. And especially Baylor, which I can't figure out how they pay less for scholarships than the CU AD (unless the private school didn't release the info). Every one of them offer more sports than CU does. Every one of them relies on out-of-state athletes. Every one of them had lower scholarship costs than CU did as reported from the final Big 12 AD meeting last year.

    Out-of-state tuition of schools in the old Big 12 (2010-11, US News & World Report):

    1. Texas: $31,218
    2. Baylor: $29,754 (private - all students)
    3. Colorado: $28,193
    4. Texas A&M: $22,817
    5. Kansas: $21,539
    6. Missouri: $19,592
    7. Nebraska: $18,846
    8. Iowa State: $18,563
    9. Kansas State: $18,404
    10. Oklahoma State: $17,378
    11. Texas Tech: $15,512
    12. Oklahoma: $13,822

    The difference in the cost of out-of-state tuition definitely has a huge impact.

    For ****s and giggles, here's what we're looking at in the Pac-12:

    1. USC: $41,022 (private- all students)
    2. Stanford: $39,201 (private - all students)
    3. California: $33,747
    4. UCLA: $33,660
    5. Colorado: $28,193
    6. Washington: $25,329
    7. Arizona: $22,254
    8. Arizona State: $20,596
    9. Washington State: $20,530
    10. Utah: $19,842
    11. Oregon State: $19,651
    12. Oregon: $17,220
     
  29. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    good stuff Nik. kinda weird, you could to OU for less than half what it costs to go to Texas over 4 years. OU is not a terrible school. your average state public. my step-dad went there and to OU law...he makes more money than anyone i know not named Forbes (Forbes family guy i knew at CC). i have a couple Norman HS buddies who went to OU, they are generally pretty smart guys. hillbillies, eating fried squirrels as we speak.... but know things about the world. 20 years later, they are still worth talking to.
     
  30. unionbuff

    unionbuff Club Member Club Member

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    My best friend's little sister graduated from HS in Dallas - more of her fellow grads went to OU than either UT or A&M combined. Money & the fact that you can't get in have really made OU a destination for a huge number of Dallas kids.
     

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