Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by JimmyBuff, Nov 26, 2011.
39 yards in the first half for the Utah O. Amazing.
We had some of our talent back from injury. In the secondary, in particular the presence of Perk and Orms seemed important (I was listening, not watching) and it sounds as though Henderson has also matured.
This favors the argument that GB didn't have a lot to work with, during those down games.
Really, there's no argument. I pointed out that from the time Orms got hurt for the WSU game to the point that he came back for the Arizona game, we were awful EVERYWHERE on defense (if not just everywhere). Orms came back for the AZ and UT games (missing UCLA). Just having a decent CB on that side made a huge difference.
They had to try to compensate for Goodson, BLock, Espy (3 emergency converted offensive players with no D experience before the week they played in a game). Guys like Moten weren't the answer.
I go along with BoulderBuff on this point: Browns issues were self-inflicted. He recruits awful. He needs some help from others. Cabral has suffered the same issues in my opinion.
I remain pretty confident that Brown can be a very good DC. He stole that game from Norm Chow and everyone knows it.
Best CU defensive performance in a long, long time.
Brown earned his paycheck this week for sure.
Now let's see him keep your goodwill on the recruiting trail.
Listening to the postgame interviews the defensive players repeatly complimented Coach Brown, they love playing for him and respect him greatly.
We knew when he was hired that he wasn't going to be a recruiting dynamo, never has been. That's just his personality. I think he can help when the kids get here for their OVs and he should be a guy who works well with the HS coaches but if you really want a kid then GB probably shouldn't be your lead recruiter.
Let's see what he does over the next year or two in terms of developing individual players and the defense as a whole. I think he will do well in those areas, if not then evaluate him and take action but give him a reasonable chance to prove himself. Same applies with all of the coaches.
Brownies D looked great and going to be even better the next few years when he gets his guys and a dominating D line - way to go Coach Brown! way to play with passion D !
It helped that Utah really only tried one deep ball all day (the guy was open and was overthrown), but one first down in the 1st half vs. a team that was supposed to gash us on the run... awesome. More physicality than we've seen in a long time.
8 and 9 in the box and they couldn't run against us. Loved it.
We've seen that against us throughout these last 6 seasons. It felt good to stop someone like that.
I keep hearing that Brown sucks at recruiting. I'm not arguing one way or another. I don't pay much attention to recruiting. What do you who complain about GB's recruiting base your opinion on?
Recruiting is, imho, overrated.
Consider, if you will, that there are tons of 3 stars, a few hundred 4 stars, and a very very small pool of five star players. Some coaches go out and get a lot of fives and fours and end up not doing so much with them. Look no further than some of the classes Slick Rick put together. Or this years UTerus team thats failed to, well, show up despite the talent. I think a great recruiter is a guy that finds the gems in all those 3 star players. And thats also a guy that puts on his coaching hat and maximizes what he gets from those players. Something Slick Rick seems to struggle with.
As far Brown goes he was in a very difficult position this year when he was forced to play players from the offense on defense. Most all of the kids were kids he did not recruit. With Orms back on the field it was night and day yesterday from what I saw. Im going to give Brown a free pass for this past year.
He has always had the NFL attitude of not liking to recruit. It wasn't until he was at Arizona last year under Stoops that anyone made him work hard at this aspect of being a college coach. Maybe that will carry over and we'll see him start doing better on the recruiting trail. He's a likable guy. But, DBT, all you have to do is look at the CU roster in the defensive backfield to see the lack of results.
So you are saying that star ratings don't matter? Interesting hypothesis. Probably worth discussing here sometime.... :huh:
Sounds like what you mean is that the star system is overrated.
Being able to identify the less heralded guys that fit your system and your culture is the essence of recruiting. Those guys are the backbone of successful CU football teams. But, just as coaches fail because of recruiting to the star system, other coaches fail because of way too much ego (thinking they're seeing something no one else does and can develop them). That happened with both Barnett and Hawkins.
To be fair, Hawkins and the administration put handcuffs on the types of guys we could recruit. Under those circumstances, I think it's a little unfair to be too critical. Recruiting the last few years has been like fighting with one arm tied behind your back. Also, it's tough to find coaches who are great at everything. By all accounts, GB is a very good position coach. I'm not sure how good a coordinator he is. I'll take your word for it that he isn't a great recruiter.
I give you enough grief for jumping in and bashing Brown and co so I appreciated seeing this. Thanks Jimmy.
I'll get him for you. Good, fair comments on his part.
Look no further than the 2008 recruiting class. The staff was so "handcuffed" it brought in Rivals' #15 class. Can't say those were a bunch of choir boys (Givens & Katoa in that class). Who did Brown land?
Vince Ewing, Steven Hicks, Patrick Mahnke and Paul Vigo
He did a GREAT job yesterday. And I hope you are right, but we don't know yet. BTW, who are "his guys"?
I took that more as "guys who fit his system". From what I can tell, he wants DLs that push the pocket and will hold their gap assignments against a double team and cornerbacks that he can leave on an island. Speed everywhere else. Seems that he wants to be aggressive and fly around. Getting the DL and CB situation right will allow him to do what he wants.
Junction: There's already a thread on this in the "In 'n Out Burger" Subforum.
That's a fair point. Of course the '08 class did not exactly pan out. It was highly rated due to a few of the big named guys but, as it turned out, was overrated. We got Scott because his uncle was on the team. Major, Givens and Cunningham were highly rated local kids. Katoa wanted to stay close to home as well. Also, recruiting great CB's appears to be one of the most difficult positions to recruit.
The whole "Greg Brown cannot recruit - the proof is we have no Dbacks" is plain silly and also tiresome. Here is why.
Coaches recruit by geographical area not by position. The position coach can help close the deal (along with the HC). If the regional coaches do not gain the attention of the DB prospects then you have no one to close on at the end.
Recruiting is a system - you get prospects into your recruiting pipeline - the last coaching regime at CU had no system. It is one of the reasons that I am so critical of Bohn, he should at least of been aware of how screwed up things were on the recruiting front. That is why CU was picking up the leftovers in January every year. Kiesau was suppose to be one of the better recruiters on that staff but I don't remember him landeing too many big time recruits - WR or otherwise. The system was toast - no one was going to recruit all that well.
Greg Brown is a solid recruiter, maybe not spectacular. Ask coach Mac - he will tell you.
Greg Brown is very popular with the players and has a track record of getting players to the next level - good selling points during recruiting. He coached 15 All-Pro players in the NFL (that sells).
Greg Brown does not hurt this program in recruiting.
His area is Arizona. We have not had much success there.
3 players on the roster from AZ.
Blake Behrens - primary recruiter was Brian Cabral
Ray Polk - primary recruiters were Brian Cabral and Darian Hagan
Alex Lewis - primary recruiter was Denver Johnson
I'm not negative on Greg Brown in the least. He's a smart coach and players like him. But he's on the staff primarily for X's & O's and player development, not recruiting. He's putting more effort into recruiting now, but he'll never be an ace on the recruiting trail. He's adequate at best.
First of all, hats off to Greg Brown for yesterday. The defense played with intensity from the start and for the first time in a while, we seemed to relish in physical play. That hit by Orms (bull**** penalty) needs to replayed all offseason because we need a lot more of that going forward.
As far his recruiting, I am past expecting Brown to make much impact there, but I do expect him to help seal the deal on better players. He should get his shot over the next couple months too.
I've heard this a couple times, but what does this mean and how do we know this was the case? I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but it seems to have become common knowledge and I don't know why. Did Hawk tell coaches not to recruit good players? Say what you will about all that twinkle in the eye bulls**t, but we all know they took more than their fair share of academic and character risks, so what "handcuffs" were put on the coaches?
BB Seal of Approval!
We've officially turned the corner, folks!
He needs to sell his resume and vision for the defense to Yuri Wright and Kenneth Crawley when we get them on campus.
He balanced his risks with "character" guys who weren't talented enough for this level but would balance out the team GPA and get us good press with community service efforts. It's almost like we had two teams in the same locker room.
He also wouldn't let an assistant make an offer to a kid until he had personally met the kid. He made a lot of character judgements about kids based on their family backgrounds. He gave a preference to kids who fit his "lunch bucket" profile over kids who had superior talent. He micromanaged who the assistants could recruit.
It may have been something that worked at Boise when he had lot's of throw away games to use to develop talent and didn't play against AQ talented teams more than once or twice a season. It absolutely didn't work here.
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