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Hiring on the cheap - does it save CU money?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by buffaholic, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    College football is big business. What does another bad hire cost CU? Trying to hire a coach on <$2M makes the risks higher. There are homeruns potentially. EB may be a home run. Might turn out to be a great recruiter who leads bad teams (ala a bunch of college coaching failures). It's hard to say.

    I know that if you have $4M+, you get a big name hire who is proven. You throw around another $2M and you get some big time assistants. What is the dollars at stake here? Potentially way, way more. Big budgets don't guarrantee a good hire (I present as evidence Lane Kiffen) - but it should reduce the risk immensely. Because for that price, you get a proven winner with proven assistants. When you hire an unproven coach who was at D2, or a coordinator, etc, you are taking some leaps of faith. Chances of a strikeout increase exponentially IMO.

    And here's the kicker. Hire an unproven guy, below market and if you are REALLY lucky, he is wildly successful. Then you will pay him anyhow by year 3 or so. What have you saved? About as much as Hawkins and staff's buyout!

    CU would be much wiser with their money to go after a proven commodity like Gary Patterson (just an example). Pay him $4M. Don't tell me we tried this with Hawk. Hawk didn't build Boise State. Hawk was never an X's -O's guy on either side. Patterson is one of the most respected defensive gurus in the game. He's a can't miss. He has built TCU into a top 5 program. I use him here only as an example. There are other guys who are can't miss that might consider building it over again in Boulder.

    Hire the might-miss guy and you save some money for the first two years. Then we go do this again? Or we get lucky and pay the guy Patterson money then. (See Chip Beck's contract negotiation stories...)

    CU needs to find the extra money now and get it right.
     
  2. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    Wasn't Fairbanks a "proven commodity"?
     
  3. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    $2MM should be able to get us a solid coach and a good team - as long as we are also willing to pay top tier assistants.
     
  4. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I guess I don't understand why we have to spend $4 million a year on a coach. That is in another stratosphere of college football (top 5 in the country). Just snap our fingers and that type of money appears?

    You also have an interesting definition of "hiring on the cheap". In the range of $2 million (+/-$200K) puts you firmly in the top 25-30. I fail to see how that suddenly screws CU in finding a quality HC candidate.
     
  5. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    That's what I tried to tell the guys on the radio tonight. $4MM is crazy high
     
  6. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Well, depends on how close to $2M you get. But a lot of the lists you are looking at are already dated. Top coaches are getting $4M. Maybe you don't have to go that high, but my point is this:

    Bohn was clearly setting the stage for hiring someone today for less than $2M.

    If that means hiring a guy without proven College Head coaching experience, and we are forced to roll the dies on an assistant somewhere, what are the risk/rewards for that roll of the dice? Gary Patterson is a less risky hire than ANY coordinator imo.

    Everyone should consider the cost of failure.

    Same with the assistants. No program should hire not 1, but 2 offensive coordinators who had ZERO experience. Helfrich and Kiesau and on-the-job training! CU cannot afford to do this. They need to spend money to keep from losing it!
     
  7. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Bohn didn't say we would spend anywhere close to $2M by the way. He said something to the effect of it wouldn't be in the >$2M range or something like that. He was setting the stage for hiring someone for less imo. That's the way I read it.

    Weather it's $500k or $2M difference, the point is the same. You are taking on added risk when you go after the unprovens.

    Is the cost savings worth the risk? If you hire right, everyone makes lots of money. If you hire poorly, the program is in trouble.
     
  8. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    The very top coaches are getting $4 million. It is not commonplace and it is a different stratosphere. I just think setting the bar there is a bit ridiculous. The assistant salary pool is absolutely critical and from different sources, it sounds like it will be addressed. Since you're intent on throwing big money around, which coaches are worth this money?
     
  9. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    Aren't most of the coaches that have $4 million per year salaries winners of national championship games? I'd think most coaches get hired on for somewhere in the range of $1.5 million to $2.5 or so and if you win big and therefore get your school more money, you get a raise.

    http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2010/07/bob-stoops-leads-highest-paid-college-football-coaches/

    http://www.americasbestonline.net/index.php/pages/collegehighestpaidcoaches.html

    not the greatest sources, Mack Brown in the pac 10, no mention of Lane Kiffin in the first link, but point remains. You win a national championship, you get a raise into the $3.5-$4 million range.

    Frank Beamer only gets $2.1 a year from VTech. I'd say Jeff Tedford is pretty overpaid for $2.8 a year considering how average that program seems to be year in year out.

    I don't doubt that Gary Patterson is a very solid hire, but you want us to just give him unprecedented amounts of $ to leave TCU? I'd rather get a major conference guy if we're throwing around that kind of cash.
     
  10. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    You could just as easily strike out with a highly paid coach. Then you are still starting over and in even more debt.

    A coaching search is as much of an art as it is a science.
     
  11. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    We may need to take a gamble on a hot assistant.

    Bob Stoops, Chip Kelly, Dantonio, Richt, Pat Fitzgerald, Whittingham, Gundy.

    They are all still in their first HC gigs, all are very successful, and all came from the coordinator ranks.
     
  12. Devildog

    Devildog Banned BANNED Club Member

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    As a Utah Utes guy that routinely reads this board...

    [waves hand]
    This is not the coach you are looking for (Gary Patterson).

    Go on about your business :nod:

    In case Jedi mind tricks don't work.... I hope you can't afford him. Dude can flat coach.






     
  13. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    Bob Stoops starting salary at OU was $700,000.
     
  14. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    Those lists are very dated (Mangino still at Kansas), but Mullen looks like a smoking deal, has great experience. Could we/would we outbid Miss St for him?
     
  15. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    .... 11 years ago.

    ----

    The true problem here is: There are no guarantees and no matter how much money you spend you cannot completely eliminate the risks. Chances of Nick Saban failing are probably smaller than the chances of a young up and comer failing, but not even Saban guarantees you success. Nobody does, although Saban comes as close as it gets.
     
  16. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

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    That's the most astute observation I've read in a while. That sums it up perfectly. There is no formula. Some guys get paid a TON of money but are worth every penny as they pay for themselves many times over in terms of increased revenue, donatiions, bowls, victories, etc....others are big busts. Veteran coach, up and comer, coordinator, NFL guy, small school guy, big school guy, big bucks, small bucks…no way to know if it will work out. The point is, it’s more art than science. I absolutely believe that.
     
  17. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

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    Yes, there are probalby only two or three guys in the coaching universe that are lock down winners. Saban is prob. #1 on that list. Maybe Meyer? Maybe only Saban. I would have put Jimmy Johnson on that list for past coaches. I think Stoops might be in the ballpark. I think he would have success anywhere.
     
  18. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    He was also hired with zero head coaching experience.

    You get what you pay for. You want to hire Les Miles, expect to pay $4 mil. You want to hire Eric Bienemy or Jon Embree- I would say $1 mil probably gets them here.
     
  19. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    No, what I meant with Stoops is ... 700k was the starting salary for a successful coordinator from a top level program in his first gig as a HC in 1999, what is the starting salary for a successful coordinator from a top level program in his first gig as a HC in 2010? What were the top guys paid in 1999? What are they being paid now?
     
  20. HornBuff

    HornBuff Horns Down

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    That's not true at all. You may pay a lot or a little, but you don't know what you're going to get. You can pay a lot and not get very much. Unless you're talking about the top two or three guys, I think the results are all over the place. Look at Michigan as just one example.
     

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