How will the schollies work out (from Thomas thread)

[Buffnik]

we are all assuming Dre doesnt declare, I dont think that is a safe assumption.

Very true. We know he'd like to but we are going by the whispers that his draft grade isn't where he'd want it to be and that improving his handle & offensive skill set would make another year worthwhile. But if he hears "1st round lock" then it's likely he'll go pro.

 

[jcatcher]

Had a long post that got asploded.

Long story short - Anyone who believes that SHT leaves without Boyle camping out on his doorstep and begging him on bended knee to stay knows nothing about college basketball or is just crazy.

There are more than 30 big men (6'9+) returning in the PAC-12, not counting incoming recruits/redshirts/eligible transfers. If you think CU is going to get through a conference season with Scott, Mills, and a couple of 6'8" guys is nuts. Say what you will about Harris-Tunks, but he has played in every game in the last two seasons and has the highest rebounds per 40 mins of anyone on the team 'cept Dre.

If he was as bad as most here believe, then Tad is a complete idiot for playing him. I'll take Tad's judgement.

 

[Buffnik]

Had a long post that got asploded.

Long story short - Anyone who believes that SHT leaves without Boyle camping out on his doorstep and begging him on bended knee to stay knows nothing about college basketball or is just crazy.

There are more than 30 big men (6'9+) returning in the PAC-12, not counting incoming recruits/redshirts/eligible transfers. If you think CU is going to get through a conference season with Scott, Mills, and a couple of 6'8" guys is nuts. Say what you will about Harris-Tunks, but he has played in every game in the last two seasons and has the highest rebounds per 40 mins of anyone on the team 'cept Dre.

If he was as bad as most here believe, then Tad is a complete idiot for playing him. I'll take Tad's judgement.

I'm still adjusting and reconciling to the idea that CU has a men's basketball coach who knows more about the game than I do. :lol:

 

[rosstr]

Had a long post that got asploded.

Long story short - Anyone who believes that SHT leaves without Boyle camping out on his doorstep and begging him on bended knee to stay knows nothing about college basketball or is just crazy.

There are more than 30 big men (6'9+) returning in the PAC-12, not counting incoming recruits/redshirts/eligible transfers. If you think CU is going to get through a conference season with Scott, Mills, and a couple of 6'8" guys is nuts. Say what you will about Harris-Tunks, but he has played in every game in the last two seasons and has the highest rebounds per 40 mins of anyone on the team 'cept Dre.

If he was as bad as most here believe, then Tad is a complete idiot for playing him. I'll take Tad's judgement.

Bingo. It's befuddling that people think SHT will be gone. We are so thin in the post (and will be for awhile), we need him badly. If only Boyle could coax even a hint of productivity out of him.

 

[rosstr]

I think Chen graduates, Mills, leaves, and something happens to either Stalzer or Talton to free up a scholy. That equals three out, three in.

 

[MtnBuff]

I think Chen graduates, Mills, leaves, and something happens to either Stalzer or Talton to free up a scholy. That equals three out, three in.

Would love to keep them both but I think you are right that one will leave. Looking at the guys in front of them and the new additions coming in there aren't enough minutes in the future for both to play significant time. My guess is that Talton will go. He is a guy who could not only get time but be a starter type for a UNC or a DU level team.

Adams has recently been showing signs of stepping up and doing some of the things we had hoped for when he decided to come to Boulder but he could also be a guy who leaves the program. He is another guy who even with improving performances isn't likely to become a big minute guy as a Buff. He may decide that managing his condition and doing the work required to stay on the team isn't worth it to be a 3rd-5th guy off the bench. The advantage for him is that he would probably be able to take a medical retirement and finish his degree at CU with his friends including those on the team.

 

[tante]

The guy is getting less than 2 rebounds a game and a little more than a point. Let's stop pretending he is having a huge impact. If he was so valuable he would play more than 8 minutes a game.

 

[BIGEZ321]

You'd ask one of the instate kids to forfeit the scholly if you were going to do this because although the scholly cost is out of state the tuition cost for a walkon is in-state if they are instate.

Great point. Talton then?

 

[MtnBuff]

The guy is getting less than 2 rebounds a game and a little more than a point. Let's stop pretending he is having a huge impact. If he was so valuable he would play more than 8 minutes a game.

Wes Gordon is listed at 6'8" 225lbs but having seen him in person at the end of last year he already looked to be taller than that. Give him a year in the weight room and adding 15 or more lbs is not unreasonable. He is not as developed skillwise as Scott is but he is a much more physical type of player who has never had a problem mixing it up.

It is hard to imagine a 6'9" or taller 240 lb Gordon being less effective as an inside player than SHT. Neither is the ideal answer to the big muscle guys that we face but I don't see us a losing a lot in SHT if Gordon gets his minutes.

 

[tante]

Wes Gordon is listed at 6'8" 225lbs but having seen him in person at the end of last year he already looked to be taller than that. Give him a year in the weight room and adding 15 or more lbs is not unreasonable. He is not as developed skillwise as Scott is but he is a much more physical type of player who has never had a problem mixing it up.

It is hard to imagine a 6'9" or taller 240 lb Gordon being less effective as an inside player than SHT. Neither is the ideal answer to the big muscle guys that we face but I don't see us a losing a lot in SHT if Gordon gets his minutes.

Wes's size, strength and athleticism are the least of our worries for him playing next year. He has to develop within the system and show he can handle playing both ends of the court.

 

[MtnBuff]

Wes's size, strength and athleticism are the least of our worries for him playing next year. He has to develop within the system and show he can handle playing both ends of the court.

The concern of most people arguing for SHT is on the defensive end. As you say Wes needs to develop his game but he is much more advanced on the defensive end than he is on the offensive end. Fortunately with the offensive skills of the other players on the roster we don't need him to be an offensive force. Having seen the efforts of Shane on the offensive end if Wes can put in a few put backs and occasionally move the ball we won't ve losing a lot with him in there.

I saw him play more than once in HS and while he isn't a Scott he is a good enough athlete that contributing offensively enough to not be a liability shouldn't be difficult for him.

 

[jcatcher]

The guy is getting less than 2 rebounds a game and a little more than a point. Let's stop pretending he is having a huge impact. If he was so valuable he would play more than 8 minutes a game.

The eight minutes are more meaningful than the boards and points. That's 20% of the game when Scott isn't banging around with guys 2-5" taller and 30 lbs. heavier than him.

 

[tante]

The eight minutes are more meaningful than the boards and points. That's 20% of the game when Scott isn't banging around with guys 2-5" taller and 30 lbs. heavier than him.

Let's stop pretending that SHT is irreplaceable. We already know that Tad is looking for a big man to come in and play a year. I think you can pretty much get any big man that will give you similar production to SHT.

 

[Gold]

When you're pulling stats like second most rebounds per 40m, but the guy avg. 1.6 rebounds per game, safe to say there's something wrong with the aforementioned stat. Its similar to saying Ben Mills avg 1 rebound for every 1.7m, and as a result he's one of our best rebounders.

 

[shang]

It seems to me that the most likely way that the shortfall in scholarships is solved next year is the that Tunks and Adams, who are both in the 4th year of college now will leave the program. This fulfills a implied commitment to give them an opportunity to complete their college education in four years and does not require moving out anyone else. If Tunks and Adams graduate and want to ... they could play another year elsewhere (pursing a degree that CU does not offer). I am betting that Roberson stays around through his senior year. He still needs to work on his offensive game if he ever wants to have a shot at the NBA ... and completing his education is important for his future in the real world. That would leave Roberson and Mills as the senior class for next year and the Buffs sign two more recruits for 2014. Tad is not about to run anybody off.

Tad is a stand up coach(one of the very few).... i think chen could have graduated last spring or over the summer but wanted to play his last year w/ CU even if it meant he had to pay...I don't think Tad will ask that of anyone currently enrolled, but would offer a similiar 3 year scholli out of 4 for one of the incoming...

 

[Buffenuf]

Tad is a stand up coach(one of the very few).... i think chen could have graduated last spring or over the summer but wanted to play his last year w/ CU even if it meant he had to pay...I don't think Tad will ask that of anyone currently enrolled, but would offer a similiar 3 year scholli out of 4 for one of the incoming...

Your scenario doesn't fit with the circumstances of the incoming guys since they are ALL out-of-state and come from backgrounds where schollies are absolutely required. Only Stalzer might fit the template you set up.

 

[slider]

Your scenario doesn't fit with the circumstances of the incoming guys since they are ALL out-of-state and come from backgrounds where schollies are absolutely required. Only Stalzer might fit the template you set up.

Racist

 

[jcatcher]

When you're pulling stats like second most rebounds per 40m, but the guy avg. 1.6 rebounds per game, safe to say there's something wrong with the aforementioned stat. Its similar to saying Ben Mills avg 1 rebound for every 1.7m, and as a result he's one of our best rebounders.

No, it's nothing similar at all. Ben Mills plays walk-on minutes against walk-ons. SHT plays crucial minutes in both the first and second half against starters and rotation players.

Judging by some (many) of the comments on this board, I'm guessing most commenters haven't picked up a basketball since Middle School.

For those advocating for a short-term replacement for Shane, do you realize that he will be a senior, so his replacement must be someone who has already graduated from another school, and can play back-to-the -basket big man basketball, a nearly lost art? Oh, he also must have no pro prospects and not be of interest to any of the top 25, who would gladly take a game ready big man.

Face it, most transfer wire players who fit the bill are like Ben Mills, and we already have one of him.

 

[mattrob]

No, it's nothing similar at all. Ben Mills plays walk-on minutes against walk-ons. SHT plays crucial minutes in both the first and second half against starters and rotation players.

Judging by some (many) of the comments on this board, I'm guessing most commenters haven't picked up a basketball since Middle School.

For those advocating for a short-term replacement for Shane, do you realize that he will be a senior, so his replacement must be someone who has already graduated from another school, and can play back-to-the -basket big man basketball, a nearly lost art? Oh, he also must have no pro prospects and not be of interest to any of the top 25, who would gladly take a game ready big man.

Face it, most transfer wire players who fit the bill are like Ben Mills, and we already have one of him.

You're missing the point though. Shane's been at CU 4 years now and is reportedly on-time to graduate. His entire class is gone, as well as fellow Aussie Tomlinson. Shane may just feel it's time to move on, whether that's going home to Australia, finding another school where he gets more PT his final year, or simply starting life after basketball. And if that's the route he chooses to go, I'm sure Tad will be supportive. This isn't a campaign to run Shane out of the program, people are simply passing along the information that's out there.

 

[BuffHerd]

I have a tough time seeing SHT as anything besides the Big Blunder from Down Under. I thought he would look better this year than last. That being said, he brings a big body inside and 5 fouls.

 

[89BUFF89]

hands of a butcher not a surgeon...this team will be loaded next year and SHT minutes will only dwindle more against most teams. Especially if Scott can get stronger/put on another 20lbs.

 

[Gold]

No, it's nothing similar at all. Ben Mills plays walk-on minutes against walk-ons. SHT plays crucial minutes in both the first and second half against starters and rotation players.

Judging by some (many) of the comments on this board, I'm guessing most commenters haven't picked up a basketball since Middle School.

For those advocating for a short-term replacement for Shane, do you realize that he will be a senior, so his replacement must be someone who has already graduated from another school, and can play back-to-the -basket big man basketball, a nearly lost art? Oh, he also must have no pro prospects and not be of interest to any of the top 25, who would gladly take a game ready big man.

Face it, most transfer wire players who fit the bill are like Ben Mills, and we already have one of him.

At 35 rebounds on the season and 1.6 reb/game, there is no statistical significance to SHT production. This is too small of a sample size to say he's contributing much of anything other than random occurances. But most CU fans do not need to see more of SHT to realize his true value. He's not skilled enough to see significant minutes in this league.

It would be more interesting to see his true points yielded per possession defended, if there is such a stat. I'd imagine he would rank last on the team and maybe conference in that category.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance

 

[jcatcher]

But most CU fans do not need to see more of SHT to realize his true value. He's not skilled enough to see significant minutes in this league.

I guess the coaches, starting with Tad, are idiots then.

 

[rosstr]

hands of a butcher not a surgeon...this team will be loaded next year and SHT minutes will only dwindle more against most teams. Especially if Scott can get stronger/put on another 20lbs.

Loaded at swingman, not post players. One injury to Scott or Gordon and we stand to be pushed around like @Utah abused us in the paint. Listen, Tunks is a big body and has five fouls to give: that's a valuable commodity to have in reserve. The alternative (having nobody) is much worse.

 

[jgisland]

It would be more interesting to see his true points yielded per possession defended, if there is such a stat. I'd imagine he would rank last on the team and maybe conference in that category.

there is no stat like this, it is virtually impossible to give blame or creidt to individual players on a per possession basis on defense.

 

[shang]

Your scenario doesn't fit with the circumstances of the incoming guys since they are ALL out-of-state and come from backgrounds where schollies are absolutely required. Only Stalzer might fit the template you set up.

Yes. Agreed, so then there is the possibility of either Adams or SHT graduating even though they have 1 more year of eligibility...along w/ someone possibly transferring out or academically not hanging...

 

[Buffnik]

Yes. Agreed, so then there is the possibility of either Adams or SHT graduating even though they have 1 more year of eligibility...along w/ someone possibly transferring out or academically not hanging...

It will definitely be interesting to see who walks out on senior night this year. Crossing my fingers that Dre doesn't join Chen & whomever.

 

[shang]

It will definitely be interesting to see who walks out on senior night this year. Crossing my fingers that Dre doesn't join Chen & whomever.

Quite honestly, I think if Dre stayed another year and truly worked on his ball handling and shot, discuss it w/ Boyle and Boyle start setting a few plays for him, a) he'll be much better and polished for the NBA and b) CU would have a shot at landing in the elite 8 or final 4!!! Ya, I'd love to see him stay

 

[buffaholic]

You'd ask one of the instate kids to forfeit the scholly if you were going to do this because although the scholly cost is out of state the tuition cost for a walkon is in-state if they are instate.

That's a pretty simple assessment that does not take into account something like who can afford to pay "any" tuition. Or who may have been told that they would get an offer for 1 year and then it would be year to year.

I think Eli's parents are major loaded with cash and getting a chance to play D1 was important to him. He was ready to pay his way other places and we just don't know what happened. Tad could have wanted him as a walkon and then was able to tell him, "Hey - I got a scholarship for at least the first year and we'll see after that".

Bottom line, Tad has 3 kids coming in and he's had a contingency plan all along. Had to.

 

[mattrob]

Quite honestly, I think if Dre stayed another year and truly worked on his ball handling and shot, discuss it w/ Boyle and Boyle start setting a few plays for him, a) he'll be much better and polished for the NBA and b) CU would have a shot at landing in the elite 8 or final 4!!! Ya, I'd love to see him stay

I know people want to justify Dre staying another year and assume that another year will improve his offense, but can we just admit that Dre is what he is offensively? I mean, there will always be incremental improvements, but he's not going to suddenly transform his game. He's not going to be the type of player you run an offense through or design set plays for, even at the college level. Last night, nik called him the ultimate college glue guy, and that's exactly right. And it's OK. It's the role he'll fill in the NBA too.

If Dre comes back next year though, I really don't think it's about his draft stock. He's probably a late first or second round pick either way. Returning next year would be about the experience and the opportunity to make a deep postseason run.